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TheOldColonel
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Those in the black market gun trade love gun laws.
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TheLegend
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My apologies Up here is Canada.
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TheLegend
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I took out a loan for $90,000 when i was sixteen. Then when i was eighteen i took on another $115,000 loan. I have never desired to serve in the military but i will feed those that do. Even if there was a draft they would not have taken me because i was/am a farmer.
The black market does enjoy it.
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TheOldColonel
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How are things down on the farm these day?
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TheLegend
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Going good for now. Was very dry last year and very little snow . But as the neighbour says we haven’t lost a crop in march yet.
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TheOldColonel
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That’s great. Thanks for the work you do. It’s good to eat!
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Theo520
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A sad story.You made me think of a family relative of mine who was adopted, was raised in a loving family yet never felt WANTED. I’m looking at him now 40 living at home, on drugs, cutting himself, carrying a gun, three children who do not get his attention and often times he probably should be locked up for his own safety and the safety of his adopted family. You made me think of this because I really feel his problem is that he never felt loved enough, because his birth mother didn’t want him and his father didn’t want him… he’s also ADD. Lots of problems like the 19 yr old shooter. To me, you make a good case that it’s our family life that is broken and making a lot of broken kids…
I would think some good therapy would help most work through their angst about ‘not being loved’ enough. Then again, some people are just broken beyond our current ability to heal them.
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Flor
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It seems that many Gun People heatedly make a jump in logic, and angrily exaggerate the effects of gun regulations on themselves. Would a background check prevent you from owning a gun ? Would a sanity test be difficult to pass ? Could you pass a gun safety class ? Are you willing to keep your weapons locked out of the reach of children ? Why is Common Sense so abhorrent to gun enthusiasts ? There’s obviously fear that any regulations enforced means that all rights will be confiscated. Say that you feel like you are an Expert, you know all about safety, you keep guns locked away from children etc etc - But, your Next Door Neighbor is kinda Nuts, uneducated in gun safety, and he sometimes get drunk and shoots at his ceiling in his house. And he has a troubled teenage son … Wouldn’t it be great if there were laws to handle all that ?
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JanSobieskiIII
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It would be great if there were laws to handle that, and there are.
If they commit a crime and are found guilty they can have their firearm access restricted by a judge.
But no, I don’t think there should be laws punishing people before a crime has been committed.
If they commit a crime and are found guilty they can have their firearm access restricted by a judge.
But no, I don’t think there should be laws punishing people before a crime has been committed.
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pnewton
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It is not punishment, any more that registering to vote punishes people who haven’t committed voter fraud, or obtaining a driver’s license and obeying traffic laws punishes motorists. This claim that any sort of gun control is punishment is contrary to reason.
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JanSobieskiIII
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Those two aren’t comparable (and I’ve been consistent with that, I hate it when my side compares guns to cars, I find it stupid and lazy).
Voting registration is necessary because we are limited to one man one vote, to enforce that there has to be a registration. Voting is also only mentioned in the constitution as not being abridged by laws pertaining to sex, skin color, etc. The right to bear arms is not limited by a quantity or type as written. If those kind of laws are wanted, people need to repeal the second amendment.
Car licensing again is different, because you can drive a car without license on private property. You do not need a license to purchase a car, only to operate it on public roads. Now, you could make the argument that to carry a gun in public requires a license, but that’s something that would be addressed at state level same as drivers licenses. In my state, Kentucky’s constitution clearly states that we have a right to open carry a weapon, but that concealed carry requires a license. Other states are different and I think this is the correct approach. This country is too big to have one set of laws for the whole nation on every single aspect.
I’ve stated before, I do not think the US federal constitutions bill of rights should be applied to the states. Each state should be able to enact the will of it’s people within it’s borders. If California wants to ban or register every single gun, more power to them. I would not choose to live there, and those that disagree would be free to move out. Thankfully, Kentucky’s constitution has in it’s right to bear arms.
I would fight against any such legislation in my state. That’s the way a federal system should work instead of the idea that federal government has to address everything with a blanket law for 320 million people.
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Road-Worrier
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Last time I read the Constitution, the 2nd amendment didn’t say “the right of the police or the Army or the National Guard to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”, it said the “right of the people”.
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pnewton
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I will say this, while I still think the comparison sufficiently valid, and in a democracy people have a right to pass laws they believe in their best interest to stay alive and safe, I appreciate the heck out of you not being lazy and actually point out the reasons you do not see the comparison as valid instead of just blowing it off.
Just to be clear on one point, registering the location and owner of guns in no way reduces the right to own the gun. And yes, I like the idea of registration being state regulated, to an extent. I also see a value in a searchable national data base so that when someone pops up as a potential violent threat, he can be checked for recent purchases and the type of guns owned.
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JanSobieskiIII
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It does not reduce the right to own a gun, I’ll grant you that, but few people are going to willingly register. I personally do not trust the federal or even state government enough to tell them what or how much of anything firearm related I own. I’m sure I sound like a paranoid nut job to non-gun owners, but in my own opinion there is no greater threat to a population than it’s own government when things get sideways. Legitimate, lawful, and in many cases elected governments killed far too many of their own countrymen for me to ignore that and think it could never happen in this country.
Take for example the fear many people have of Donald Trump illegally deporting or persecuting people. I think it’s unfounded, but to them it’s a reasonable fear. I fully support those people being able to anonymously own firearms to resist any unlawful actions taken against them by this administration should that happen. It’s a big hypothetical what if potentially paranoid idea, but I think a distrust of government is healthy as it reduces reliance on it.
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Theo520
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and most red flags around mental illness are associated with at least a low level crime, like verbally threatening others.
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Road-Worrier
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It is a necessary precondition for firearms confiscation, which is why it is so strongly opposed. It would also be logistically impossible to create an accurate database for the several hundred million firearms already in private hands.
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pnewton
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The first is too tin-foil hat for me. The second is a fallacy which is used all the time. Do nothing if you can’t do it perfectly?
I simply think it beyond the realm of reason to think entering data as guns are sold would not created an accurate database. That is exactly how databases are formed.
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Theo520
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Why is the concept of registration then confiscation ‘tin-foil hat’ to you? It has been shown to be the Govt response repeatedly in recent world history.
Registration hasn’t shown any value in Canada, but I suspect the system is functional. I object to it in the US because it would turn many upright and law abiding citizens into criminals, because of their refusal to comply with registration.
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pnewton
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In a democracy? No, it has not been shown. Comparing the United States to Nazi Germany, for example, is too tin foil hat for me.
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Theo520
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So you invoke the “No True Scotsman” to defend your position, excellent use of logical fallacy.
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