Explain This - Non Catholics?

[Mag_Uidhir]

The Monk fell for the fast one, the old switcheroo.

Magic/Miracle aint real. There is only the Magic Trick.

Of-course if I was an unbeliever I wouldn’t want to accept it either, it might turn my little cocoon world upside down.

And since you say it was magic then explain it, where you there in the pew, a real eyewitness ?

I’ll take the word of a doubting priest any day over an unbeliever, at least the priest believed in God.

There is none so blind as those that will not see.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I’ll take the word of a doubting priest any day over an unbeliever, at least the priest believed in God.

Hey I believe in God too. I just dont buy into those hear-say miracles. Im kind of the the Saint Thomas type: No actual proof, no deal.

 

[jimmy85]

Hey I believe in God too. I just dont buy into those hear-say miracles. Im kind of the the Saint Thomas type: No actual proof, no deal.

well even if I would want to somehow become an agnostic/atheist. this prove dosent allow me to lack of faith.

This picture is an image of radiation taken by the NASA, of the shroud of turin.
no painting picture can have a radiation with the shape of an human form.
this scientific experiment proved that every microscopic point of the srhoud that is in concatc with the body of the person in there, has radiations, especially in the places in which the body was more in contact with it. for example the nose has more radiation than anotehr places that werent so much near the srhoud like the eye.
like this, the Nasa got a 3d sculture made of radiation of the person that was there.

No medieval painting can produce a radiation in which every microscopic point resembles a human face. moreover the shroud has mirco polen from palestine form the first century that was already extinguished. and also the criminologists have stated that the shroud utterly fits the description of the gospel.

 

[AgnosTheist]

This picture is an image of radiation taken by the NASA, of the shroud of turin.

can you provide more info other than that picture? please excuse me but i am even more skeptical of pictures, for I have seen a lot of bogus muslim miracle pictures. allah written on fishes, allah written on tree barks, allah written on you name it.

 

[jimmy85]

can you provide more info other than that picture? please excuse me but i am even more skeptical of pictures, for I have seen a lot of bogus muslim miracle pictures. allah written on fishes, allah written on tree barks, allah written on you name it.

it is from a book I have about it in spanish, that talks about the lasted scientific proves on the shroud.
spiritusmedia.org/sabana_santa/index_sabana.htm
However this image is famous. I have saw it in a documentary of Fox News about christinity and in other channels as well.

skeptics documentaries and websites tend to hide this image but anyway, it is a famous one it must be in internet . and it is the image of the studies that the NASA did to the shroud of Turin, thta is a fact thta the Nasa estudied the shroud adn summited it to experiements.
if u keep skeptic then u shoudl need to go to turin or to contact someone that is aquainted with all the experiments that the shroud has underwent. there is also a congres of syndonomy that is celebrated every year their main topic is the shroud of turin however i dunno when it will be , I think all this will be your homework now.

 

[Mag_Uidhir]

Hey I believe in God too. I just dont buy into those hear-say miracles. Im kind of the the Saint Thomas type: No actual proof, no deal.

So what about the ones attributed to Jesus ? demons fleeing from the possessed, lepers healed, lame walking, the dead arising, and the dumb speaking, and the blind seeing.

Do you believe those ? and if so why or how ?

As the Lord said, "you believe because you have seen, blessed are they have not seen and yet believed. "

 

[AgnosTheist]

So what about the ones attributed to Jesus ? demons fleeing from the possessed, lepers healed, lame walking, the dead arising, and the dumb speaking, and the blind seeing.

Do you believe those ? and if so why or how ?

As the Lord said, "you believe because you have seen, blessed are they have not seen and yet believed. "

all hear-says. not good enough. St.Thomas wouldnt take that, and neither would I.

 

[Mag_Uidhir]

all hear-says. not good enough. St.Thomas wouldnt take that, and neither would I.

Oh so you believe in God but not the one He sent Jesus His Son ?

Brilliant, I never did meet a believer like you, Even some of those that saw Jesus didn’t believe in Him.

Oh and can you answer as to how you came to believe in God ?

Someone has to tell you about Him and now as you say you believe, how ? how did you get past hear-say ?

I think your just winding us up, but I’ll play along for awhile.

 

[jimmy85]

can you provide more info other than that picture? please excuse me but i am even more skeptical of pictures, for I have seen a lot of bogus muslim miracle pictures. allah written on fishes, allah written on tree barks, allah written on you name it.

www1.jsc.nasa.gov/er/seh/shroud.html

that is a webpage of the nasa that mention the 3d image of the shroud that they got from their experiments

 

[jimmy85]

Well even st. Thomas, with all his skepticism, became afterwards a great saint and an apostole.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Oh and can you answer as to how you came to believe in God ?

all the wonders of life. i find it unthinkable that the sophistication of life just evolved on its own. there has to be a guide…the divine.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Well even st. Thomas, with all his skepticism, became afterwards a great saint and an apostole.

I would too, if God reveals himself to me. So would you, I bet.

 

[Mag_Uidhir]

all the wonders of life. i find it unthinkable that the sophistication of life just evolved on its own. there has to be a guide…the divine.

Many atheists see this too and still don’t believe, how is it some blind people believe in God and can’t see anything ?

Your explanation wouldn’t suffice for me if I didn’t believe.

Oh so God can create this planet with all it’s life and beauty, but not turn a Host into flesh, I find that incredible.

I would too, if God reveals himself to me. So would you, I bet.

You already said He did reveal Himself to you, Saint AgnosThesit, all the wonders of life, remember ?

 

[AgnosTheist]

how is it some blind people believe in God and can’t see anything ?

Because some blind people are actually honest with themselves to admit that they cant cant see anything. unlike the 4 billion or so blind people out there who are decieved by charismatic charlattans into believing they could see something when they really could not.

Oh so God can create this planet with all it’s life and beauty, but not turn a Host into flesh, I find that incredible.

God created the laws of physics, i find it incredible that he would violate it just to satisfy one loser monk.

 

[Mag_Uidhir]

Because some blind people are actually honest with themselves to admit that they cant cant see anything.

I’m talking about the ones who can’t see and yet believe.

unlike the 4 billion or so blind people out there who are deceived by charismatic charlatans into believing they could see something when they really could not.

Off topic.

God created the laws of physics, i find it incredible that he would violate it just to satisfy one loser monk.

That’s your hear-say, you can’t prove it, yet you don’t believe in miracles and ask us to prove them, we can’t prove the miraculous, maybe thats why they’re called miracles.

What loser monk, Martin Luther ?

 

[jimmy85]

God created the laws of physics, i find it incredible that he would violate it just to satisfy one loser monk.

That stuffs are always said using ill reasoning.
people undermine the love of God and the close union that he has with people. miracles dosent happen to selfishly satisfy people. but in my opinion they are a sign that the person have a close and mystical union with God.
Besides even if people dotn believe in them, there are proves that they do happen.

I think the key thing is to be openminded, in order to realize that stuffs are not jsut like how I think they are.
just ebcuase I havent saw a miracle that dosent mean that they dont exist.

also one must put aside the idea that everything is like in the enviroment that I was reaised.
If u were raised in a secular place were christians were weird charistmatics, you might think that the whole theist people are nut charismatics.
and therefore their religions will be nonsense.
however it is different because not everyone in the whole world is like the people that you grow up with.
one must be openminded and accept that stuffs are different in different places.
We have already prove that miracles happen, however you need to get rid of ill reasoning n by good will try to understand them if you want. becuase you simply cannot denied something that happens.

 

[AgnosTheist]

That’s your hear-say, you can’t prove it,

cant prove what?

yet you don’t believe in miracles and ask us to prove them, we can’t prove the miraculous, maybe thats why they’re called miracles.

i’m just criticizing the so called ‘miracles’ presented in this thread.
with these ‘miracles’, you only have to prove that something impossible really did happen.

are the incorruptibles impossible? not at all. it can happen at the right natural conditions.

is the flesh host impossible? not at all, it could have been planted using sleight of hand.

is the shroud of turin impossible? not at all, it could have been produced by an artist using human blood.

The thread is called “Explain This - Non Catholics?”. I have.

What loser monk, Martin Luther ?

I think he was a winner. As a visionary he was successful in sparking a revolution that diversied christianity which partly became a factor in making christians appreciate the value of religious freedom. Thanks to religious freedom I was able to proudly tell my catholic relatives that I am no longer a christian. No fear.

 

[jimmy85]

cant prove what?

is the shroud of turin impossible? not at all, it could have been produced by an artist using human blood.

The thread is called “Explain This - Non Catholics?”. I have.

yep human blood that is in a 3d image, well we are free to believe wahtever we want even with proves.

 

[jimmy85]

Sincerily why is the dread of accepting somehting like religion,
Is it is becuase of its responsability?

 

[AgnosTheist]

in my opinion they are a sign that the person have a close and mystical union with God.

not really if you go by the book. like (according to the stories) those egyptians who witnessed their comrades drown in the miraculous red sea. by the book every miracle happened for 2 simultaneous purposes:

1. to aid people in need.
2. to convince skeptics.

so far the ones mentioned in this thread are only able to fulfill one but not both, sometimes not even one. 2 out of 3 were only for the appreciation of those who already believed. and it did not really give any practical aid.

I think the key thing is to be openminded, in order to realize that stuffs are not jsut like how I think they are.
just ebcuase I havent saw a miracle that dosent mean that they dont exist.

openmindedness is an advise to the both of us. i believe miracle could happen, but i dont think it did yet. at least not that I know of. and i have examined a lot of so called miracles from many different religions. so far its either bogus or baseless.