Explain This - Non Catholics?

[Nella]

Physician Tells of Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano
Edoardo Linoli Verified Authenticity of the Phenomenon
In 1973, the Higher Council of the World Health Organization (WHO) appointed a scientific commission to verify the Italian doctor’s conclusions. The work was carried out over 15 months with a total of 500 examinations. The conclusions of all the researches confirmed what had been stated and published in Italy.
zenit.org/article-12933?l=english

The extract of the scientific research of WHO’s medical commission was published in New York and Geneva in 1976, confirming science’s inability to explain the phenomenon
In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.
The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:
The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

The Flesh is a “HEART” complete in its essential structure.

The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).

In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.

In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

The doctor was Catholic…

 

[KarenNC]

I asked said atheists, that Jefferson also said that blacks smelt bad and were naturally inferior to whites, and would they like to cite with pride that quote too.

Expanding on the quote might help clarify

“The error seems not sufficiently eradicated, that the operations of the mind, as well as the acts of the body, are subject to the coercion of the laws. But our rulers can have authority over such natural rights only as we have submitted to them. The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

As to whether his views on slavery, etc should also be remembered, of course they should. I do have to say, however, that I have not found it a universal standard that a person has to be in total agreement with everything another person does to find things that he says meaningful, nor that it is usually useful to apply the mores of current society to people from the past without acknowledging that context does indeed make a difference.

For instance, I find a lot of Jews, Christians and Muslims who like to quote stories about Abraham as a great and holy man. I don’t find a whole lot who feel they need to equally trumpet that he was married to his half sister and that he gave her (after they were married) to be married to not one but two different kings under the lie that she was only his sister in exchange for protection, slaves, animals, wealth, preferential treatment, etc.

So your signature has as about as much to do with the question at hand as does doubting Thomas.

That you will have to take up with the person who introduced Doubting Thomas.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Expanding on the quote might help clarify

“The error seems not sufficiently eradicated, that the operations of the mind, as well as the acts of the body, are subject to the coercion of the laws. But our rulers can have authority over such natural rights only as we have submitted to them. The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

As to whether his views on slavery, etc should also be remembered, of course they should. I do have to say, however, that I have not found it a universal standard that a person has to be in total agreement with everything another person does to find things that he says meaningful, nor that it is usually useful to apply the mores of current society to people from the past without acknowledging that context does indeed make a difference.

For instance, I find a lot of Jews, Christians and Muslims who like to quote stories about Abraham as a great and holy man. I don’t find a whole lot who feel they need to equally trumpet that he was married to his half sister and that he gave her (after they were married) to be married to not one but two different kings under the lie that she was only his sister in exchange for protection, slaves, animals, wealth, preferential treatment, etc.

That you will have to take up with the person who introduced Doubting Thomas.

I will. We’re having Supper together Sunday morning.

 

[Atemi]

It is not petrified. The Heart tissue is alive - the scientific studies have shown this.

No they have not.

The tissue is as dead as a door nail.

It is not alive.

The Heart has all the sections of heart tissue that are essential in structure (myocardium, endocardium, etc.).

Yes. Not Jesus Christ but a bitty piece of petrified heart tissue.

This just shows that you don’t fully understand Catholic teaching. Yes, Jesus is whole and entire - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity - in every particle of the Host and every drop of the Blood.

So first you disagree with me, and then in the same breath agree with me.

But what does it mean to be whole and entire? You seem to think that we should see really small whole Jesus’ - like micromen or something. But, what constitutes a person?

If I cut off your nose - are you any less you? How about if I hack off your limbs - are you still a whole person? Yes, it is the substance, not the accidents, that makes a person a person.

Jesus is not noseless or armless.

He is a man with two arms and legs, hair, and bones.

Catechism of the Council of Trent:

(in this sacrament are contained) “. . . all the constituents of a true body, such as bones and sinews. . . .”

…

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

A person like that is a fool. But thats not what the quote says.

That is exactly what the quote says. For one who does not believe no explanation is possible because they just won’t listen. If someone does not believe it is because of one of two reasons - they haven’t heard the Truth or they refuse to listen and believe.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

He did? My understanding is that this event was supposed to have taken place several centuries ago. And all the article proves, if you believe every word of it, is that the item that the doctor examined several years ago was flesh. It doesn’t prove that it was flesh that used to be bread.

We have the testimony of the Priest and other witnesses.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

No they have not.

The tissue is as dead as a door nail.

It is not alive.

Yes. Not Jesus Christ but a bitty piece of petrified heart tissue.

I can’t seem to locate all the charts and such online right now, but I have seen the results and findings in person at an exhibition on Eucharistic Miracles. The findings state that the heart tissue is alive!

So first you disagree with me, and then in the same breath agree with me.

No, you disagree with the Catholic Church because you don’t understand what ‘whole and entire’ means.

Jesus is not noseless or armless.

He is a man with two arms and legs, hair, and bones.

Catechism of the Council of Trent:

(in this sacrament are contained) “. . . all the constituents of a true body, such as bones and sinews. . . .”

Yes, but there is not a change in shape. The Eucharist doesn’t morph into the physical resemblance (that is the accidents) of a man. It is an ontological change not a sensorial change.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Actually, I am not.

Either the consecrated Eucharist is Jesus Christ, whole and entire, or the RC teaching is wrong.

Jesus say that “His Flesh is Real food and His blood is Real Blood.” You on the other hand denies that.

So God performed a miracle to support what the Catholic Eucharist IS NOT?

Miracles happen because it strengthen the faith. It is Biblical.

No.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Eucharist becomes Jesus, whole and entire, at every Mass.

What we have at Lanciano is nothing of the sort. Old petrified heart tissue is not Jesus Christ.

…

It is Jesus. You will have a lot to answer when you go to the judgment seat of God and he will ask you. “Why did you not believe that I am truly present in the Blessed Host? Did I say this in the Gospel?”

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56* He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58* This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever. Deny this, then you don’t really believe that I speak the Truth.”

 

[RevDrNorth]

Hello,

As the quote goes:

“For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.”

Speaking of limbs growing back - Saint John Damascene had his hand cut off and it miraculously grew back; in gratitude he crafted a golden hand and attached it to an icon of Mary (the three-handed Madonna).

I hope you are not serious. There is certainly no proof and he would be the only person in history. Either a) you are joking jar jar binks b) St. John Damascene perpetrated a fraud or c) He was delusional.

Wait…maybe aliens (same ones Ezekiel saw) showed up and performed advanced surgery.

Folks…he did not grow a hand back.

Rev North

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

I hope you are not serious. There is certainly no proof and he would be the only person in history. Either a) you are joking jar jar binks b) St. John Damascene perpetrated a fraud or c) He was delusional.

Wait…maybe aliens (same ones Ezekiel saw) showed up and performed advanced surgery.

Folks…he did not grow a hand back.

Rev North

No, quite serious. His hand was cut off by the Muslims. Through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, his hand grew back miraculously - thus why he honored her with the golden hand.

And no, he is not the only one in history. Off hand I immediately think of Jesus healing the man with the shriveled hand (Matthew 12:8-13; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:6-10). Or do you suppose Jesus also was joking or lying or delusional?

 

[Atemi]

I can’t seem to locate all the charts and such online right now, but I have seen the results and findings in person at an exhibition on Eucharistic Miracles. The findings state that the heart tissue is alive!

I am sure Catholic exhibitions will tell you that tissue is alive all day long, but it is not.

No, you disagree with the Catholic Church because you don’t understand what ‘whole and entire’ means

I apologize.

I thought “whole and entire” really meant “whole and entire.”

Now it just means piece parts. Got it.

…

 

[KarenNC]

And no, he is not the only one in history. Off hand I immediately think of Jesus healing the man with the shriveled hand (Matthew 12:8-13; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:6-10). Or do you suppose Jesus also was joking or lying or delusional?

Shriveled does not equate to amputated.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

I am sure Catholic exhibitions will tell you that tissue is alive all day long, but it is not.

And I am sure that your ecclesial community tells you that the Catholic Church is completely wrong - or worse. But its not.

We are the One True Church - we have the fullness of revealed Truth.

I apologize.

I thought “whole and entire” really meant “whole and entire.”

Now it just means piece parts. Got it.

If you actually want to learn Catholic teaching, instead of telling us what you think we believe, let me know.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Shriveled does not equate to amputated.

Precisely Karen…there are days Anglicans are so level headed spiritually.

Respectfully, St. John D did not re grow his hand…period. If you believe so I have a bridge for sale. Don’t you find it a little odd JMJ that in all the recorded healings at places like Lourdes there is NO regrown limb…none. Wouldn’t that be among the most charitable of miracles and an astounding witness to the world if God was really healing through those waters.

Rev North

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Shriveled does not equate to amputated.

It is a case of a limb being regrown - either completely or from a degenerate state to fullness. Either way, it is something that science says can’t happen.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I apologize.

I thought “whole and entire” really meant “whole and entire.”

…

Even if the Eucharist is divided in half, each piece is still whole or entirely Jesus Christ.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Precisely Karen…there are days Anglicans are so level headed spiritually.

Respectfully, St. John D did not re grow his hand…period. If you believe so I have a bridge for sale. Don’t you find it a little odd JMJ that in all the recorded healings at places like Lourdes there is NO regrown limb…none. Wouldn’t that be among the most charitable of miracles and an astounding witness to the world if God was really healing through those waters.

Rev North

Saint John Damascene did have his hand restored.

This back and forth could get old - fast.

I haven’t made an in depth study of the miracles of Lourdes to know all of the miracles that have taken place.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Hello,

Saint John Damascene did have his hand restored.

This back and forth could get old - fast.

I haven’t made an in depth study of the miracles of Lourdes to know all of the miracles that have taken place.

Yes and the BVM is showing up on a burnt tortilla and rusted septic tank near you. Was St. John D. the Binny Hinn of earlier centuries?

I really have no heart burn if you want to believe that pious myth. I think the Buddah was supposed to have levitated, Muhammed assumed into heaven, etc. That is your faith and you are entitled to it. If it causes you to be more devout then you are blessed by that belief. It is interesting that the Roman Catholics had people who were the equivalent of Binny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland and the Word of Faith movement back in the day. It is kind of an Oral Roberts type of thing…your miracle healing is here.

Rev North

 

[Fisher]

“Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” (Matthew 28:20)

“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)

Jesus said that a time would come when we would realize that He truly lives in us, and we truly live in Him.

“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” (John 14:20)

Jesus told us,

“Abide in me, and I in you.” (John 15:4)

According to “Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary,” the word “abide” means “to stay; to continue in a place; to dwell; sojourn; to remain”.

The Bible tells us that God will be with His people, and that He will be in His people. It depends upon our personal relationship with God. Look at the following Scriptures. If we are truly Christians, then the Father, Son and Holy Spirit dwell within us.

“He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2 John 1:9)

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” (1 Corinthians 3:16)

“…that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith” (Ephesians 3:17)

“Christ in you, the hope of glory.” (Colossians 1:27)

“Christ liveth in me” (Galatians 2:20)

“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:15)

“If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.” (1 John 4:12)

“…your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God” (1 Corinthians 6:19)

“God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.” (1 John 4:16)

If we are truly Christians, then the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all live in us. How can you get any closer than that?

 

[Atemi]

Even if the Eucharist is divided in half, each piece is still whole or entirely Jesus Christ.

So each piece is not a bit of heart tissue, but Jesus Christ whole and entire?

Exactly.

So much for the witness of Lanciano in this regard.

…