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worldcitizen
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Yes of course. But it goes to up 10:52. How much do you want posted as I dont think I can post it all as the post might exceed the limit?
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Techno2000
Guest
We already know that, so no need for Baha’u’llah University is there anything else we should know ?Baha’u’llah taught love for all humanity and people of all Faiths.
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worldcitizen
Guest
Ok. Let’s go into the new laws for the new age. This is the very first law.We already know that, so no need for Baha’u’llah University is there anything else we should know ?
Baha’u’llah redefined belief as twin duties. The first duty is to recognise and believe in the new Manifestation and the other duty is to obey whatever He has prescribed and one is uncceptable without the other.
“1 The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other.”
Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Kitab-i-Aqdas.” Bahá’í
So you can’t be saved by just belief or by just being a good person.
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Techno2000
Guest
Saved from what ?Ok. Let’s go into the new laws for the new age. This is the very first law.
Baha’u’llah redefined belief as twin duties. The first duty is to recognise and believe in the new Manifestation and the other duty is to obey whatever He has prescribed and one is uncceptable without the other.
“1 The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other.”
Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Kitab-i-Aqdas.” Bahá’í
So you can’t be saved by just belief or by just being a good person.
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worldcitizen
Guest
I meant personal salvation sorry. Salvation in this age cannot be attained except by accepting the Manifestation and adherence to His Teachings. That is what Baha’u’llah is saying.Saved from what ?
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worldcitizen
Guest
While I’m not sure how much MJ wishes me to post I found this if it helps. It’s the official Bahai view on the subject. The exact verse in question. If it was thought I implied Christ was not good then I was misunderstood as that was not the intention so my sincerest apologies. Christ was perfect and pure goodness in every way. This official view definitely should clear it up.
"How often the Prophets of God and His supreme Manifestations in Their prayers confess Their sins and faults! This is only to teach other men, to encourage and incite them to humility and meekness, and to induce them to confess their sins and faults. For these Holy Souls are pure from every sin and sanctified from faults.
In the Gospel it is said that a man came to Christ and called Him “Good Master.” Christ answered, “Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but One, that is, God.”This did not mean—God forbid!—that Christ was a sinner; but the intention was to teach submission, humility, meekness and modesty to the man to whom He spoke. These Holy Beings are lights, and light does not unite itself with darkness. They are life, and life and death are not confounded. They are for guidance, and guidance and error cannot be together. They are the essence of obedience, and obedience cannot exist with rebellion.
To conclude, the addresses in the form of reproach which are in the Holy Books, though apparently directed to the Prophets—that is to say, to the Manifestations of God—in reality are intended for the people. This will become evident and clear to you when you have diligently examined the Holy Books."
(Some Answered Questions)
"How often the Prophets of God and His supreme Manifestations in Their prayers confess Their sins and faults! This is only to teach other men, to encourage and incite them to humility and meekness, and to induce them to confess their sins and faults. For these Holy Souls are pure from every sin and sanctified from faults.
In the Gospel it is said that a man came to Christ and called Him “Good Master.” Christ answered, “Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but One, that is, God.”This did not mean—God forbid!—that Christ was a sinner; but the intention was to teach submission, humility, meekness and modesty to the man to whom He spoke. These Holy Beings are lights, and light does not unite itself with darkness. They are life, and life and death are not confounded. They are for guidance, and guidance and error cannot be together. They are the essence of obedience, and obedience cannot exist with rebellion.
To conclude, the addresses in the form of reproach which are in the Holy Books, though apparently directed to the Prophets—that is to say, to the Manifestations of God—in reality are intended for the people. This will become evident and clear to you when you have diligently examined the Holy Books."
(Some Answered Questions)
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JimmyDFG
Guest
So What “manifestation of God” would the Amish belong to? Since they are reluctance to adopt many conveniences of modern technology. Would they be in “primary school” ?When one advances from kindergarten to primary school is it the principle of the school who got it wrong?
You learned the basics then progressed so were given a teacher that advanced your learning and abilities but kindergarten was absolutely necessary.
Now Baha’u’llah has come we have reached university but it doesn’t lessen any of the teachers that helped us progress to university. They were stages along the way of our education and were all needed.
For example Buddha taught detachment and meditation, Christ taught love and forgiveness, Muhammad taught love of country and learning and Baha’u’llah taught love for all humanity and people of all Faiths.
Now which one of these high ideals don’t we need?? They are all complimentary and not in competition with each other.
What about the uncontacted people in the world? What “manifestation of God” do they belong to? They must be in " kindergarten"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples
Can’t you see the flaw in the Baha’i belief
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Servant19
Guest
JimmySo What “manifestation of God” would the Amish belong to? Since they are reluctance to adopt many conveniences of modern technology. Would they be in “primary school” ?
What about the uncontacted people in the world? What “manifestation of God” do they belong to? They must be in " kindergarten"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples
Can’t you see the flaw in the Baha’i belief
It’s not very difficult, and it ties in to the Catholic teaching that in many ways and forms God has found a way to reveal Himself to all peoples since the beginning of time.
So yes, uncontacted peoples of the world would still have some form of spiritual heritage or tradition, and its authenticity depends on how long ago God spoke to these people and also how much sincere human distortions have occurred to the teaching.
Indigenous Australians believe in a spirituality which mimics all global religions. They believe in prayer, devotion to one God, love for all, compassion, forbearance and humility.
And all this from a 100,000 year old tradition.
What they don’t have however is a complete understanding on Law and Commandments given to us by Moses, a complete understanding on salvation and faith, given to us by Jesus, a complete understanding on how to unite a nation, as given to us by Muhammad, nor a complete understanding of how unity is the most powerful force in creation, as given to us by the Bab and Baha’u’llah. They understand snippets of these teachings but each religion has fulfilled what was already known and given more, added richness and clarity.
God NEVER leaves His loved children alone and without guidance…
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Tony, If man gets it wrong that’s why Jesus was crucified for the forgiveness of sins. That’s why the Church has The Sacrament of Penance and ReconciliationFirstly it in not a Baha’i Teaching or View that God does not get it right. It is man that gets it wrong.
As per Worldcitizen above - Link to thoughts - bahaiteachings.org/progressive-revelation-a-new-paradigm-for-religion-and-history
One would hope we can now learn the lessons and stop rejecting Gods Manifestations.
Regards Tony
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1422
"Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God’s mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion
That in its self puts a stop to any manifestations of God…IF there was ever any
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worldcitizen
Guest
It was only an example to show progressive revelation. All these people had a Manifestation for their time.So What “manifestation of God” would the Amish belong to? Since they are reluctance to adopt many conveniences of modern technology. Would they be in “primary school” ?
What about the uncontacted people in the world? What “manifestation of God” do they belong to? They must be in " kindergarten"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples
Can’t you see the flaw in the Baha’i belief
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Not necessarily Servant and worldcitizen. It is plausible to take one person out of those uncontacted peoples and bring him/her into the “new world” for a day/week/month whichever. Expose that person to the wonders of the world and to a religion and place him/her back with the rest. What “progressive of revelation” would apply to that person and not the rest…if at all?Jimmy
It’s not very difficult, and it ties in to the Catholic teaching that in many ways and forms God has found a way to reveal Himself to all peoples since the beginning of time.
So yes, uncontacted peoples of the world would still have some form of spiritual heritage or tradition, and its authenticity depends on how long ago God spoke to these people and also how much sincere human distortions have occurred to the teaching.
Indigenous Australians believe in a spirituality which mimics all global religions. They believe in prayer, devotion to one God, love for all, compassion, forbearance and humility.
And all this from a 100,000 year old tradition.
What they don’t have however is a complete understanding on Law and Commandments given to us by Moses, a complete understanding on salvation and faith, given to us by Jesus, a complete understanding on how to unite a nation, as given to us by Muhammad, nor a complete understanding of how unity is the most powerful force in creation, as given to us by the Bab and Baha’u’llah. They understand snippets of these teachings but each religion has fulfilled what was already known and given more, added richness and clarity.
God NEVER leaves His loved children alone and without guidance…
.
What about Native American religions? What “manifestation of God” do traditional Native American ceremonial ways can vary widely, and are based on the different beliefs of individual tribes, clans and bands. Early European explorers describe individual Native American tribes and even small bands as each having their own religious practices. Theology may be monotheistic, polytheistic, henotheistic, animistic, or some combination thereof.
Where is there so called “progressive of revelation” and who is there “manifestation of god”?
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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
That’s a good point, and I apologise for being so harsh on my last post.Not at all. If Christianity didn’t exist we wouldn’t either.
Consider it just speculation. But Christianity’s foundation as far as I know is based on ‘love one another’ and that’s what I understand as most important.
If a person accepts the (true) Christian story of the Resurrection of Rabbi Yeshu, but then accepts service on an SSBN or at an ICBM base, what good is that belief?
I would prefer that we all be Atheists if that meant that none of us would enable nuclear weapons.
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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
I know that this is a Dogma, but I have always had a hard time accepting the idea that the greatest person ever to walk the face of the earth had to be tortured to death as some kind of macabre sacrifice to appease an angry god. In the first place Jewish animal sacrifices to YHWH never involved the torture of the animal. And secondly, Rabbi Yeshu repeatedly demonstrated that He had the power to forgive sins. So why would He have to be tortured to death to do the same? It just doesn’t make sense (to me at least.)Tony, If man gets it wrong that’s why Jesus was crucified for the forgiveness of sins.
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Techno2000
Guest
What do you mean by personal salvation ?I meant personal salvation sorry. Salvation in this age cannot be attained except by accepting the Manifestation and adherence to His Teachings. That is what Baha’u’llah is saying.
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Techno2000
Guest
Because, that’s what demons do, torture.I know that this is a Dogma, but I have always had a hard time accepting the idea that the greatest person ever to walk the face of the earth had to be tortured to death as some kind of macabre sacrifice to appease an angry god. In the first place Jewish animal sacrifices to YHWH never involved the torture of the animal. And secondly, Rabbi Yeshu repeatedly demonstrated that He had the power to forgive sins. So why would He have to be tortured to death to do the same? It just doesn’t make sense (to me at least.)
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Techno2000
Guest
Good point, and how many “progressive revelations” does man have to go through to know an unknowable God ?Not necessarily Servant and worldcitizen. It is plausible to take one person out of those uncontacted peoples and bring him/her into the “new world” for a day/week/month whichever. Expose that person to the wonders of the world and to a religion and place him/her back with the rest. What “progressive of revelation” would apply to that person and not the rest…if at all?
What about Native American religions? What “manifestation of God” do traditional Native American ceremonial ways can vary widely, and are based on the different beliefs of individual tribes, clans and bands. Early European explorers describe individual Native American tribes and even small bands as each having their own religious practices. Theology may be monotheistic, polytheistic, henotheistic, animistic, or some combination thereof.
Where is there so called “progressive of revelation” and who is there “manifestation of god”?
** “That which we imagine, is not the Reality of God; He, the Unknowable, the Unthinkable, is far beyond the highest conception of man.”**
bahai.org/beliefs/god-his-creation/revelation/unknowable-god
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Techno2000
Guest
The Revelation (kindergarten) of Buddha is the same today as is was in the past, so how can a Buddhist make the Jump from a kindergarten Revelation to a Baha’u’llah University Revelation without first having to progress through the other levels of Revelation ?
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eddie_too
Guest
the bahai reject the teachings of the Twelve Apostles and their successors on many of the mysteries of the faith revealed to them by Jesus. that much, at least, should be obvious from the comments of those bahai who post here. they reject the teachings of the Twelve on the nature of God. they reject the teachings of the apostles on the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. they reject the teachings of the apostles on the Lord’s Resurrection.
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eddie_too
Guest
in one particular sense bahaullah iss totally different from Jesus. this is how. Jesus rejected nothing that God had revealed to His Chosen People (the jews). Jesus said this in a literal sense.
He said, I have not come to abolish the law (meaning the law given to the Chosen People throughout their history by their prophets, especially moses), but to fulfill it. He said He was not changing even the smallest letter of the law.
bahaullah on the other hand appears nearly totally indifferent to the laws of the O.T. as well as the laws given us by the Lord Jesus. the bahai’s rejection of the teachings of the Twelve Apostles is ample demonstration of this truth.
historically speaking, bahaullah has virtually no connection to christianity. although the bahai claim a connection through mohammed, the fact is, mohammed had virtually NO connection to christianity. we can say bahaullah and mohammed had virtually no connection to christianity with great confidence because neither one knew much, if anything, about the teachings of the apostles. that is why they founded systems that reject those teachings.
to clarify, by the word connnection i mean a continuation and development of the teachings of the apostles. in contrast, this connection to the teachings of the apostles is obvious and undeniable for the magisterium of the RCC. as evidence, we have the continuation and development of the teachings of the apostles by the magisterium of the RCC for the previous, nearly twenty centuries.
unless the bahai approach the divine mysteries revealed to us by Jesus with humility instead of with a desire to detect faults and weaknesses in the Lord’s teachings so as to use them to promote their own beliefs and agenda, dialogue with them is unlikely to produce much understanding and unity.
there is no humility in wanting to learn something so as to be better able to tear it down and deconstruct it as the bahai are trying to do with the teachings we have received from the Lord through His apostles and their successors, the magisteriums of the RCCs and Orthodox Catholics.
He said, I have not come to abolish the law (meaning the law given to the Chosen People throughout their history by their prophets, especially moses), but to fulfill it. He said He was not changing even the smallest letter of the law.
bahaullah on the other hand appears nearly totally indifferent to the laws of the O.T. as well as the laws given us by the Lord Jesus. the bahai’s rejection of the teachings of the Twelve Apostles is ample demonstration of this truth.
historically speaking, bahaullah has virtually no connection to christianity. although the bahai claim a connection through mohammed, the fact is, mohammed had virtually NO connection to christianity. we can say bahaullah and mohammed had virtually no connection to christianity with great confidence because neither one knew much, if anything, about the teachings of the apostles. that is why they founded systems that reject those teachings.
to clarify, by the word connnection i mean a continuation and development of the teachings of the apostles. in contrast, this connection to the teachings of the apostles is obvious and undeniable for the magisterium of the RCC. as evidence, we have the continuation and development of the teachings of the apostles by the magisterium of the RCC for the previous, nearly twenty centuries.
unless the bahai approach the divine mysteries revealed to us by Jesus with humility instead of with a desire to detect faults and weaknesses in the Lord’s teachings so as to use them to promote their own beliefs and agenda, dialogue with them is unlikely to produce much understanding and unity.
there is no humility in wanting to learn something so as to be better able to tear it down and deconstruct it as the bahai are trying to do with the teachings we have received from the Lord through His apostles and their successors, the magisteriums of the RCCs and Orthodox Catholics.
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Techno2000
Guest
They will say no this isn’t the case, it’s just that they now have a better understanding of these teachings because of “Progressive Revelation” given to them by The Baha’u’llah.the bahai reject the teachings of the Twelve Apostles and their successors on many of the mysteries of the faith revealed to them by Jesus. that much, at least, should be obvious from the comments of those bahai who post here. they reject the teachings of the Twelve on the nature of God. they reject the teachings of the apostles on the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. they reject the teachings of the apostles on the Lord’s Resurrection.
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