Exploring Bahaism

[Techno2000]

Hi there,

There is no teaching from Abdu’l-Baha that states that the resurrection was only a mental one.

The teaching is that the most important understanding and interpretation from the resurrection is that of the spiritual realm, for as a Life-Giving Spirit Jesus opened the gates of heaven for all.

What a tremendous bounty…

.

23: THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

Question.—What is the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?

Answer.—The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are** not of the body**. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and** have no connection with material things.** For example, there is the subject of Christ’s coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: “For I came down from heaven”; and also in verse 42 we find: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?” Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
Observe that it is said, “The Son of man is in heaven,” while at that time Christ was on earth. Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary. It is clear, then, that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification; it is a spiritual,** not a material, fact**. The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom. And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact. In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and** not material**; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and** not material ascension**.
Beside these explanations, it has been established and proved by science that the visible heaven is a limitless area, void and empty, where innumerable stars and planets revolve.
Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest.** No, rather it was lost, for the believers** were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.
Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection.** But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols**, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of** the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics.** But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-23.html

 

[Techno2000]

‘Abdu’l-Bahá…

CHRIST

Afterward** Christ came, saying, “I am born of the Holy Spirit.”** Though it is now easy for the Christians to believe this assertion, at that time it was very difficult. According to the text of the Gospel the Pharisees said, “Is not this the son of Joseph of Nazareth Whom we know? How can He say, therefore, I came down from heaven?”
Briefly, this Man, Who, apparently, and in the eyes of all, was lowly, arose with such great power that He abolished a religion that had lasted fifteen hundred years, at a time when the slightest deviation from it exposed the offender to danger or to death. Moreover, in the days of Christ the morals of the whole world and the condition of the Israelites had become completely confused and corrupted, and Israel had fallen into a state of the utmost degradation, misery and bondage. At one time they had been taken captive by the Chaldeans and Persians; at another time they were reduced to slavery to the Assyrians; then they became the subjects and vassals of the Greeks; and finally they were ruled over and despised by the Romans.
This young Man, Christ, by the help of a supernatural power, abrogated the ancient Mosaic Law, reformed the general morals, and once again laid the foundation of eternal glory for the Israelites. Moreover, He brought to humanity the glad tidings of universal peace, and spread abroad teachings which were not for Israel alone but were for the general happiness of the whole human race.
Those who first strove to do away with Him were the Israelites, His own kindred. To all outward appearances they overcame Him and brought Him into direst distress. At last they crowned Him with the crown of thorns and crucified Him. But** Christ,** while apparently in the deepest misery and affliction,** proclaimed,** “This Sun will be resplendent, this Light will shine, My grace will surround the world, and all My enemies will be brought low.” And as He said, so it was; for all the kings of the earth have not been able to withstand Him. Nay, all their standards have been overthrown, while the banner of that Oppressed One has been raised to the zenith.
But this is opposed to all the rules of human reason. Then it becomes clear and evident that this Glorious Being was a true Educator of the world of humanity, and that He was helped and confirmed by divine power.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-6.html

 

[Techno2000]

‘Abdu’l-Bahá…

THE BIRTH OF CHRIST

Question.—How was Christ born of the Holy Spirit?

Answer.—In regard to this question, theologians and materialists disagree. The theologians believe that Christ was born of the Holy Spirit, but the materialists think this is impossible and inadmissible, and that without doubt He had a human father.
In the Qur’án it is said: “And We sent Our Spirit unto her, and He appeared unto her in the shape of a perfect man,” meaning that the Holy Spirit took the likeness of the human form, as an image is produced in a mirror, and he addressed Mary.
The materialists believe that there must be marriage, and say that a living body cannot be created from a lifeless body, and without male and female there cannot be fecundation. And they think that not only with man, but also with animals and plants, it is impossible. For this union of the male and female exists in all living beings and plants. This pairing of things is even shown forth in the Qur’án: “Glory be to Him Who has created all the pairs: of such things as the earth produceth, and of themselves; and of things which they know not” —that is to say, men, animals and plants are all in pairs—“and of everything have We created two kinds”—that is to say, We have created all the beings through pairing.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-17.html

 

[Techno2000]

‘Abdu’l-Bahá…

REAL PREEXISTENCE

Question.—How many kinds of preexistence and of phenomena are there?

Answer.—Some sages and philosophers believe that there are two kinds of preexistence: essential preexistence and preexistence of time. Phenomena are also of two kinds, essential phenomena and that of time.
Essential preexistence is an existence which is not preceded by a cause, but essential phenomena are preceded by causes. Preexistence of time is without beginning, but the phenomena of time have beginnings and endings; for the existence of everything depends upon four causes—the efficient cause, the matter, the form and the final cause. For example, this chair has a maker who is a carpenter, a substance which is wood, a form which is that of a chair, and a purpose which is that it is to be used as a seat. Therefore, this chair is essentially phenomenal, for it is preceded by a cause, and its existence depends upon causes. This is called the essential and really phenomenal.
Now this world of existence in relation to its maker is a real phenomenon. As the body is sustained by the spirit, it is in relation to the spirit an essential phenomenon. The spirit is independent of the body, and in relation to it the spirit is an essential preexistence. Though the rays are always inseparable from the sun, nevertheless, the sun is preexistent and the rays are phenomenal, for the existence of the rays depends upon that of the sun. But the existence of the sun does not depend upon that of the rays, for the sun is the giver and the rays are the gift.
The second proposition is that existence and nonexistence are both relative. If it be said that such a thing came into existence from nonexistence, this does not refer to absolute nonexistence, but means that its former condition in relation to its actual condition was nothingness. For absolute nothingness cannot find existence, as it has not the capacity of existence. Man, like the mineral, is existing; but the existence of the mineral in relation to that of man is nothingness, for when the body of man is annihilated it becomes dust and mineral. But when dust progresses into the human world, and this dead body becomes living, man becomes existing. Though the dust—that is to say, the mineral—has existence in its own condition, in relation to man it is nothingness. Both exist, but the existence of dust and mineral, in relation to man, is nonexistence and nothingness; for when man becomes nonexistent, he returns to dust and mineral.
Therefore, though the world of contingency exists, in relation to the existence of God it is nonexistent and nothingness. Man and dust both exist, but how great the difference between the existence of the mineral and that of man! The one in relation to the other is nonexistence. In the same way, the existence of creation in relation to the existence of God is nonexistence. Thus it is evident and clear that although the beings exist, in relation to God and to the Word of God they are nonexistent. This is the beginning and the end of the Word of God, Who says: “I am Alpha and Omega”; for He is the beginning and the end of Bounty. The Creator always had a creation; the rays have always shone and gleamed from the reality of the sun, for without the rays the sun would be opaque darkness. The names and attributes of God require the existence of beings, and the Eternal Bounty does not cease. If it were to, it would be contrary to the perfections of God.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-81.html

I HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT THIS IS SUPPOSE TO MEAN

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

The edicts made by Baha’u’llah are wonderful things. I especially like:

“Whoever becomes angry with you, meet him with gentleness. Whoever does evil to you, do not do evil to him.”

“Do not approve for another what you do not approve for yourselves. Fear God and certainly do not be among the proud.”

“We see some people who desired freedom boasting of it. … The consequences of freedom end in sedition, the fire of which is unquenchable.”
“The freedom which benefits you is servitude to God, the True one, and whoever has found this sweetness of freedom will not exchange it for the kingdom of sovereignty of the heavens and the earth.”

“It is not for him who loves his country to be proud, but [rather] for him who loves the whole world.”

“. . .if the Friends of God be slain it is better in the eyes of this Oppressed One than that they should injure anyone.”

What a pity that the unfortunate words of Abdul Baha in regards to our Lord’s resurrection are not corrected as they should be, and continue to create an obstacle to Christians who are attempting to understand the wonderful teachings of Baha’u’llah.

From Baha’u’llah’s statement of certitude:
“The Rising-place of Command has no partner in the Very Great Preservation From Error. . . .And a portion in this Great and Unapproachable Dignity has not been destined for anyone else.”

The UHJ should retract its grant of certitude to Abdul Baha and correct the errors he so obviously made in regards to the resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Techno2000]

The edicts made by Baha’u’llah are wonderful things. I especially like:

“Whoever becomes angry with you, meet him with gentleness. Whoever does evil to you, do not do evil to him.”

“Do not approve for another what you do not approve for yourselves. Fear God and certainly do not be among the proud.”

“We see some people who desired freedom boasting of it. … The consequences of freedom end in sedition, the fire of which is unquenchable.”
“The freedom which benefits you is servitude to God, the True one, and whoever has found this sweetness of freedom will not exchange it for the kingdom of sovereignty of the heavens and the earth.”

“It is not for him who loves his country to be proud, but [rather] for him who loves the whole world.”

“. . .if the Friends of God be slain it is better in the eyes of this Oppressed One than that they should injure anyone.”

What a pity that the unfortunate words of Abdul Baha in regards to our Lord’s resurrection are not corrected as they should be, and continue to create an obstacle to Christians who are attempting to understand the wonderful teachings of Baha’u’llah.

From Baha’u’llah’s statement of certitude:
“The Rising-place of Command has no partner in the Very Great Preservation From Error. . . .And a portion in this Great and Unapproachable Dignity has not been destined for anyone else.”

The UHJ should retract its grant of certitude to Abdul Baha and correct the errors he so obviously made in regards to the resurrection of Jesus.

No, they say he is the infallible interpreter of his Father.

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

No, they say he is the infallible interpreter of his Father.

i have heard that, but would like the reference if you don’t mind. Whom do you mean by “they?”

 

[Techno2000]

i have heard that, but would like the reference if you don’t mind. Whom do you mean by “they?”

‘Abdu’l-Bahá – The Perfect Exemplar

Upholding unity as the fundamental principle of His teachings, Bahá’u’lláh established the necessary safeguard to ensure that His religion would never suffer the same fate as others that split into sects after the deaths of their Founders. In His Writings, He instructed all to turn to His eldest Son, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, not only as the authorized interpreter of the Bahá’í Writings but also as the perfect exemplar of the Faith’s spirit and teachings.

bahai.org/abdul-baha/

 

[Techno2000]

i have heard that, but would like the reference if you don’t mind. Whom do you mean by “they?”

What is your interpretation of this…

Bahá’u’lláh…

XXXII: That which thou hast heard concerning…

That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up** Ishmael** as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-32.html

 

[Cathoholic]

jeffrey erwin

In response to Techno2000 saying . . .

QUOTE:
Why would God set up competing religions ?

You said . . .

QUOTE:
The simple answer would be to teach us tolerance of other faiths and to love our brothers and sisters of other faiths.

Your response has the built-in false pre-supposition that you cannot affirm the fullness of the truth, AND love your brothers and sisters of other faiths while affirming this FULLNESS of the Truth.

Your answer is also “intolerant” of the ONE fullness of Truth.

Your reply did not seem persuasive to me.

Your reply?

QUOTE (from Pope John Paul II and misapplied by you to this context of our thread with emphasis mine):
“It is a good thing to come to understand each other by learning to accept differences, by overcoming prejudices in mutual respect, and by working together for reconciliation and service to the lowliest.”

But this is irrelevant.

NOBODY in Catholicism is saying . . .

“Hey! We should NOT understand each other. We should never accept differences in people. And we MUST be prejudiced, bigoted, and don’t respect your fellow man either. And forget about that reconciliation that goes on between people too. Just forget about it!

You create a straw man, then attack it, then walk away doing a proverbial “victory lap”, when what you said is not addressing the issues.

I am not trying to be unkind here, but as I said, your arguing over NOT accepting Catholicism’s differences . . . differences to your personal beliefs, is . . . well . . . irrelevant.

Your point was not persuasive.

And I think all the points you just directed at me (or at Catholicism or wherever), really more accurately reflect your personal home-cooked ideas.

You are trying to put forth a pseudo-syncretism, that excludes what Catholics see their Faith as concerning the Fullness of Truth.

I think this may be due to your own prejudices, and you not learning to accept Catholicism for what it is–the Fullness of Truth.

Again, you not accepting the differences between Catholicism and what you think religiously, and you not respecting the FULLNESS of Truth (there can only be ONE FULLNESS of Truth jeffrey erwin).

And it also displays a lack of working together on your part, with the Catholic Faith, to assert the existence of this Fullness of Truth, even if you don’t agree with it. And your attacks against the Fullness of Truth, impedes reconciliation with those people and ideas you don’t necessarily despise, but you DO vehemently disagree with.

And I think these ideas of yours are wrong.

 

[TonyBS]

Right,God has to set up all kinds of different religions so we can learn tolerance

Many Ethnic Backgrounds so we can learn Unity in Diversity, Many Different Languages so we can learn true consultation.

It all teaches us of the Oneness of God in the Beauty of Diversity.

Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

Many Ethnic Backgrounds so we can learn Unity in Diversity, Many Different Languages so we can learn true consultation.

It all teaches us of the Oneness of God in the Beauty of Diversity.

Regards Tony

Tony, we already know everyone is a child of God,what I’m talking about is… what is the truth God wants us to know.

 

[TonyBS]

What a pity that the unfortunate words of Abdul Baha in regards to our Lord’s resurrection are not corrected as they should be, and continue to create an obstacle to Christians who are attempting to understand the wonderful teachings of Baha’u’llah.

From Baha’u’llah’s statement of certitude:
“The Rising-place of Command has no partner in the Very Great Preservation From Error. . . .And a portion in this Great and Unapproachable Dignity has not been destined for anyone else.”

The UHJ should retract its grant of certitude to Abdul Baha and correct the errors he so obviously made in regards to the resurrection of Jesus.

Dear Jeffery - I can confirm that Abdul’baha is appointed by Baha’ullah’s Covenant and through this covenant Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice were also appointed.

All these reflect what Baha’u’llah has intended for mankind. There is no one better than Abdul’baha to explain what Baha’ullah’s Writings meant.

Thus if you find conflict there will be an answer, but it needs to be explored.

I also find this with the Bible, not all is apparent at first glance, it takes much study to find the pearls of Wisdom hidden in the Vast Ocean of those life giving words.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Tony, we already know everyone is a child of God,what I’m talking about is… what is the truth God wants us to know.

The truth is One and only God that we are to Know and Love. That, that God is found within us all with His Laws.

The oneness of God is the key to look at any religious scripture and how it binds with another. It is the Body of His Faith. It is all needed for the Body to operate as intended. each a necessary part of the whole.

Regards Tony.

 

[Techno2000]

I also find this with the Bible, not all is apparent at first glance, it takes much study to find the pearls of Wisdom hidden in the Vast Ocean of those life giving words.

Regards Tony

Where in the Qur’án can we find this pearl of Wisdom ?

‘Abdu’l-Bahá…

In the Qur’án it is said: “And We sent Our Spirit unto her

 

[TonyBS]

To bring the gospel of forgiveness and salvation to those that hear it. Jesus is quite clear, not all will be saved as unfortunate as that is. Christianity is spiritual but often times it does not unite but divides sharply.

This is true for all religions, the messages are a High calling and many try to scale the heights, many of us fail.

The thing here is to pick oneself up ask forgiveness and try again. many are content to stay on the Ground, many climb but a way, few reach the top and find the goal.

Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

The truth is One and only God that we are to Know and Love. That, that God is found within us all with His Laws.

The oneness of God is the key to look at any religious scripture and how it binds with another. It is the Body of His Faith. It is all needed for the Body to operate as intended. each a necessary part of the whole.

Regards Tony.

You just want us to gloss over everything…the Devil is in the details.

 

[TonyBS]

You just want us to gloss over everything…the Devil is in the details.

No I want a Loving Peaceful World free of prejudices of all kinds

Gods Will done on Earth as it is in Heaven no less.

Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

No I want a Loving Peaceful World free of prejudices of all kinds

Gods Will done on Earth as it is in Heaven no less.

Regards Tony

Here’s your problem…
**
For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

Ephesians 6:12**

 

[Techno2000]

This is true for all religions, the messages are a High calling and many try to scale the heights, many of us fail.

The thing here is to pick oneself up ask forgiveness and try again. many are content to stay on the Ground, many climb but a way, few reach the top and find the goal.

Regards Tony

You have to be on the right Ladder to reach the very top.