Exploring Bahaism

[MartinJordan]

That doesn’t answer my question at all, and you had to use the Bible to try answer it.

Strangely enough however Bahai didn’t know the Bible has 73 books yet say they are the fulfillment of Catholicism.

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

You are a strange person Techno, like a chameleon

It fully answered the Question. The answer is you want to know Christ, Really Know Christ, you Must get to know Baha’u’llah, I think that is Biblical and Think that was that clear that is what is offered.

If I posted something from the Baha’i Writings they would be disregarded as not being Divine Revelation and the answer also rejected.

Post an answer from the Bible, same result.

So do you think we are done with the exploring? I think there is no exploration happening.

Regards Tony

How is knowing Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí knowing Jesus when they are two totally different people?

What divine revelation has the Baha’i given?

 

[Techno2000]

Strangely enough however Bahai didn’t know the Bible has 73 books yet say they are the fulfillment of Catholicism.

MJ

They can never give a concrete answer, to concrete questions, because the Bible they use is abstract, and that’s why they always have to go back to our Bible which is concrete.

 

[Techno2000]

How is knowing Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí knowing Jesus when they are two totally different people?

What divine revelation has the Baha’i given?

He means the stuff God told Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí… that is their divine revelation.

 

[Techno2000]

How is knowing Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí knowing Jesus when they are two totally different people?

Jesus is the “Manifestation” of Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí(Baha’u’llah), so he is the “Manifestation of God” ,but they don’t believe Jesus is God, so how can there be a Manifestation of God.

 

[Servant19]

I can give you what it said about Prophets to come in…

Luke16:16 'Up to the time of John it was the Law and the Prophets; from then onwards, the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
523 St. John the Baptist is the Lord’s immediate precursor or forerunner, sent to prepare his way. “Prophet of the Most High”, John surpasses all the prophets, of whom he is the last.

The truth is that God gave us Prophets (Old Testament) and Apostles (New Testament) for the establishing of the church. Prophets pointed ahead to Jesus. Apostles point back to Jesus. But, now God speaks to us through His Son.

Hebrews 1:1-2
At many moments in the past and by many means, God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets; but
in our time, the final days, he has spoken to us in the person of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through whom he made the ages.

Hang on a minute…

You said this:

"And in Matthew 24:24
“for false Christs and false prophets will arise and provide great signs and portents, enough to deceive even the elect, if that were possible.”

This sounds like Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí ( Baha u llah ) because he was born November 12th 1817"

And I asked for a reference for this, and what you give me is Luke 16:16???

Are we just playing games here dear Jimmy???

It’s time to stand up and answer the questions please…

Servant my understanding of “clouds” is this …
Cloud and light. These two images occur together in the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. In the theophanies of the Old Testament, the cloud, now obscure, now luminous, reveals the living and saving God, while veiling the transcendence of his glory - with Moses on Mount Sinai,at the tent of meeting, and during the wandering in the desert, and with Solomon at the dedication of the Temple. In the Holy Spirit, Christ fulfills these figures. The Spirit comes upon the Virgin Mary and “overshadows” her, so that she might conceive and give birth to Jesus.On the mountain of Transfiguration, the Spirit in the “cloud came and overshadowed” Jesus, Moses and Elijah, Peter, James and John, and “a voice came out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!’” Finally, the cloud took Jesus out of the sight of the disciples on the day of his ascension and will reveal him as Son of man in glory on the day of his final coming.

554 From the day Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, the Master “began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things. . . and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”****Peter scorns this prediction, nor do the others understand it any better than he. In this context the mysterious episode of Jesus’ Transfiguration takes place on a high mountain, before three witnesses chosen by himself: Peter, James and John. Jesus’ face and clothes become dazzling with light, and Moses and Elijah appear, speaking “of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem” A cloud covers him and a voice from heaven says: “This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!”

555 For a moment Jesus discloses his divine glory, confirming Peter’s confession. He also reveals that he will have to go by the way of the cross at Jerusalem in order to “enter into his glory”. Moses and Elijah had seen God’s glory on the Mountain; the Law and the Prophets had announced the Messiah’s sufferings. Christ’s Passion is the will of the Father: the Son acts as God’s servant; the cloud indicates the presence of the Holy Spirit. “The whole Trinity appeared: the Father in the voice; the Son in the man; the Spirit in the shining cloud.”

“the cloud indicates the presence of the Holy Spirit”

There is your answer as you can see Servant. Maybe its the Baha’i and Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí ( Baha u llah ) that’s being “un-Biblical” and the “falsehood coming from”

So it is not a LITERAL Cloud, correct?

It is a cloud that “INDICATES” something else. The Holy Spirit, no less.

Have you studied what a lightening represents in the Old Testament as well?
It’s not a literal lightening…



.

 

[TonyBS]

Jesus is the “Manifestation” of Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí(Baha’u’llah), so he is the “Manifestation of God” ,but they don’t believe Jesus is God, so how can there be a Manifestation of God.

There are many young Children that grasp the concept ever so easy, so either you like making it look hard or one is yet to acheive this;

Matthew 18:2And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, 3and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 4"Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.…”

Regards Tony

 

[arthra]

Let’s try again… if the Baha’i Heaven is not any better than the Catholic Heaven then why bother with the Baha’i Heaven,if it is better then show me how.

The Baha’i view of heaven means “nearness to God” …

*Be humble and submissive to God and chant the verses of thanksgiving at morn and eve, for that He guided thee unto the Manifest Light and showed to thee the straight Path and destined to thee the station of nearness in His wonderful Kingdom. **

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - p. 359)

There’s a brief essay on heaven that I think represents the Baha’i view rather well:

"The Bahá’í Faith rejects the idea of heaven and hell as actual places. It views afterlife as involving progress through a series of spiritual realms, termed the Abhá (“Most Glorious”) Kingdom. Depictions of the Abhá Kingdom are metaphorical, not literal, because the next life is a mystery that can not be adequately described. In the next world human beings remain in the human station–they can not progress to the station of, for example, a Manifestation of God–but in the human station they progress infinitely. The Abhá Kingdom possesses a spiritual hierarchy of stations, as the following passage from the Long Obligatory Prayer suggests:

"I testify unto that whereunto have testified all created things, and the Concourse on High, and the inmates of the all-highest Paradise, and beyond them the Tongue of Grandeur itself from the all-glorious horizon. . ." (Bahá’í Prayers, 2d United States edition, 13).

Source:

bahai-library.com/stockman_heaven

 

[arthra]

Jesus is the “Manifestation” of Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí(Baha’u’llah), so he is the “Manifestation of God” ,but they don’t believe Jesus is God, so how can there be a Manifestation of God.

We don’t believe God “incarnates” Himself… rather that God manifests Himself in the pure Mirror of the Manifestation of God…Julio Savi has written a summary:

In the Bahá’í texts the Manifestations of God are given several names:
a. Prophet, that is one who speaks in the name of God;

b. Messenger, representative or apostle of God, that is one who is sent by God into the world so that he may bestow upon mankind the divine bounties of the world of the Kingdom;

c. Word of God, inasmuch as the Manifestations of God have the capacity of giving perfect expression to the spiritual meanings of reality, whereas human beings, limited as they are, have not such a capacity and therefore are referred to as `letters’;[27]

d. Sun of Truth or of Reality. In relation to the world of mankind they are like the sun in relation to the earth. They are the only source of life, enlightenment and growth for mankind, as the sun for the earth. Bahá’u’lláh writes: ... if for one moment the tide of His mercy and grace were to be withheld from the world, it would completely perish,'[28] and Abdu’l-Bahá ex-plains: The outer sun is a sign or symbol of the inner and ideal Sun of Truth, the Word of God... a function of the sun is the revelation of the mysteries and creative purposes hidden within the phenomenal world.' This Sun gives forth the light of religion and bestows the life of the spirit, imbues humanity with archetypal virtues and confers eternal splendors’; `its lights are the lights of reality’;[29]

e. Perfect Man. The Manifestation of God is perfect in comparison with other men. Bahá’u’lláh writes: Upon the inmost reality of each and every created thing He hath shed the light of one of His names, and made it a recipient of the glory of one of His attributes. Upon the reality of man, however, He hath focused the radiance of all of His names and attributes, and made it a mirror of His own Self.' In the metaphor presented by Bahá'u'lláh, the Manifestations of God, in comparison with other men, are the Primary Mirrors’.[30]

f. Divine Physician. Bahá’u’lláh writes: Regard the world as the human body which, though at its creation whole and perfect, hath been afflicted, through various causes, with grave disorders and maladies...'; the Manifestation of God is that skilled… all-powerful and inspired Physician’ who gives the remedy' fit for its healing’.[31]

bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html

 

[MartinJordan]

There are many young Children that grasp the concept ever so easy, so either you like making it look hard or one is yet to acheive this;

Matthew 18:2And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, 3and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 4"Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.…”

Regards Tony

Matthew 18 has nothing to do with Bahai. Whatsoever.

MJ

 

[Techno2000]

Abraham (not God) Krishna (not God)Zoroaster(not God) Moses(not God) Buddha (not God)Jesus Christ(not God) Muhammad(not God) the Báb(not God) ** = **(Bahá’u’lláh: Manifestation of God)

 

[Servant19]

Abraham (not God) Krishna (not God)Zoroaster(not God) Moses(not God) Buddha (not God)Jesus Christ(not God) Muhammad(not God) the Báb(not God) ** =** (Bahá’u’lláh: Manifestation of God)

You have neglected to see that ALL of these Individuals you named above have a human station and a Divine station. Each one of them has a specifically prescribed Mission which focuses on either the human station of Prophet-hood, or the Divine station of Prophet-hood, or both.

They were all Manifestations of God according to Baha’i terminology.

.

 

[TonyBS]

Matthew 18 has nothing to do with Bahai. Whatsoever.

MJ

It is the key to understanding Gods Word, it is the key to an innocent Humility.

You look at a child and teach Him from your Heart and the Child Loves and embraces what comes from your heart.

Teach an Adult this same Love and prior learning can be but a rejection.

Be as a Child .

God bless you with great Love

Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

You have neglected to see that ALL of these Individuals you named above have a human station and a Divine station. Each one of them has a specifically prescribed Mission which focuses on either the human station of Prophet-hood, or the Divine station of Prophet-hood, or both.

They were all Manifestations of God according to Baha’i terminology.

.

No Prophet of the Bible ever claimed to be Divine in any way, your religion is trying to attach that to them.

 

[Techno2000]

The Manifestation of God is the light-bringer of the world. Like the arrival of spring, His coming releases a fresh outpouring of spirit into creation and has a universal effect. When humanity has entered its “winter,” this new “sun” appears above the horizon and “shines upon the worlds of spirits, of thoughts and of hearts…” Then, “the spiritual spring and new life appear, the power of the wonderful springtime becomes visible, and marvelous benefits are apparent.”

bahai.org/beliefs/god-his-creation/revelation/manifestations-god

Let’s go down the list of these Manifestations of God, other than Abraham, Moses and Jesus please tell me what are these marvelous benefits that are so apparent ?

Krishna

Zoroaster

Buddha

Muhammad

Báb

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Let’s go down the list of these Manifestations of God, other than Abraham, Moses and Jesus please tell me what are these marvelous benefits that are so apparent ?
Krishna
Zoroaster
Buddha
Muhammad
Báb

I don’t have a problem with the idea that these teachers of religion were beneficial to their various peoples.

On a different note, I recently noticed something that everyone else has long been aware of, and that is the circumcision of Ishmael. Doesn’t that circumcision mean that Ishmael became part of the the Covenant that YHWH established with Abraham? And wouldn’t YHWH’s promise to make Ishmael the father of a great nation indicate some future role for this nation to play? Of course it was through Isaac that YHWH said that He would establish His Covenant. However, to think that the descendents of Ishmael would be just forgotten might be a mistake.

I have mentioned my “scraps from the table” idea. Ishmael, even though the elder, had to be content with the 'hand-me-downs" from his brother Isaac. Mohammed was the one to consolidate these scraps into Islam, and Baha’u’llah was the one to reform Islam into the Baha’i Faith.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Thank you Iron Donkey

Indeed we do have Christ in all of us, an unborn, uncreated Person, and it is our sinful self that diminishes the light of Christ to shine through all of us in all its glory and splendour.

Please consider the perspective that the Buddha taught.

“There is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, and therefore there is an escape from the born, created, formed, originated. If it were not for the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there would be no escape from the born, created, formed, originated, but because there is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there is an escape, there is liberation from the born, created, formed, originated” (Udana VIII.3).

Doesn’t the “unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated” sound like Christ to you?

Nope, not exactly, because Buddha thought that the uncreated ultimate reality was not personal.

This passage from Buddhist scripture is of course considered to be the condition of Nirvana, but please consider that Buddhism teaches the elimination of all things that relates to self, (or the sinful self to Christians) until there is nothing left but “the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated” and we can finally allow this “Christ-like” reality (which is admittedly in all of us) to shine through us without the self, the carnal self clouding its glory and splendour.

This is how Buddhism and Christianity are connected.

.

And Christianity does not say that we strip away all of our non-Christ stuff until we become Christ.Through God’s grace, our sinful tendencies are stripped away until we become Christ-like. Different, non-Christ beings who are like Christ in many ways, and who’s difference from Christ is good. Which is very different from stripping away our individuality until we merge with some uncreated non-personal cloud of being.

Yes there are some things that even Christians and Buddhists can agree on, but that doesn’t change that the two contradict each other and so can’t both be the revelations of an honest God.

That does not mean that one is right and the other contains no truth whatsoever. It just means that at most one was revealed by God, and the other was not (though it may base some of its ideas on some things that were).

 

[Servant19]

The Manifestation of God is the light-bringer of the world. Like the arrival of spring, His coming releases a fresh outpouring of spirit into creation and has a universal effect. When humanity has entered its “winter,” this new “sun” appears above the horizon and “shines upon the worlds of spirits, of thoughts and of hearts…” Then, “the spiritual spring and new life appear, the power of the wonderful springtime becomes visible, and marvelous benefits are apparent.”

bahai.org/beliefs/god-his-creation/revelation/manifestations-god

Let’s go down the list of these Manifestations of God, other than Abraham, Moses and Jesus please tell me what are these marvelous benefits that are so apparent ?

Krishna - Gupta Empire

Zoroaster - Persian Empire

Buddha - Maurya dynasty

Muhammad - Golden Age of Islam

Báb - please read Nabil’s Narrative

.

 

[Techno2000]

I don’t have a problem with the idea that these teachers of religion were beneficial to their various peoples.

On a different note, I recently noticed something that everyone else has long been aware of, and that is the circumcision of Ishmael. Doesn’t that circumcision mean that Ishmael became part of the the Covenant that YHWH established with Abraham? And wouldn’t YHWH’s promise to make Ishmael the father of a great nation indicate some future role for this nation to play? Of course it was through Isaac that YHWH said that He would establish His Covenant. However, to think that the descendents of Ishmael would be just forgotten might be a mistake.

I have mentioned my “scraps from the table” idea. Ishmael, even though the elder, had to be content with the 'hand-me-downs" from his brother Isaac. Mohammed was the one to consolidate these scraps into Islam, and Baha’u’llah was the one to reform Islam into the Baha’i Faith.

Bahá’u’lláh…

XXXII: That which thou hast heard concerning…

That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-32.html

 

[Techno2000]

;13668730:

Krishna - Gupta Empire

Zoroaster - Persian Empire

Buddha - Maurya dynasty

Muhammad - Golden Age of Islam

Báb - please read Nabil’s Narrative

.

Spiritual benefits, not earthly Servant 19.