Exploring Bahaism

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Techno2000 said:
The Manifestation of God is the light-bringer of the world. Like the arrival of spring, His coming releases a fresh outpouring of spirit into creation and has a universal effect. When humanity has entered its “winter,” this new “sun” appears above the horizon and “shines upon the worlds of spirits, of thoughts and of hearts…” Then, “the spiritual spring and new life appear, the power of the wonderful springtime becomes visible, and marvelous benefits are apparent.”

bahai.org/beliefs/god-his-creation/revelation/manifestations-god

Let’s go down the list of these Manifestations of God, other than Abraham, Moses and Jesus please tell me what are these marvelous benefits that are so apparent ?

Krishna en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire

Zoroaster. sullivan-county.com/z/zoroaster.htm

Buddha nsms6thgradesocialstudies.weebly.com/buddhism-and-indias-golden-age.html

Muhammad. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

Báb
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We are still to have our golden age but since 1844 science has increase a thousandfold and that’s enough to show that the Bab and Baha’u’llah brought about both scientific and technological marvels

Hi Joey,

I added links to your post above to explore.

The “marvellous effects that are so apparent” are the effects the ‘Golden Age’ of each civilisation has had on humanity.

Each Revelation had a distinct lasting effect in things like science, culture, mathematics, medicine, art, architecture, universities, schools, reading and writing, language, poetry and a host of other benefits we take for granted today.

What humanity has today is the gross accumulation of all these civilisations over periods of 1,000’s of years and these marvellous benefits appeared gradually.

Just look up golden age of I.e. Islam etc and you can find all these things.

For instance. The Magi, the 3 wise men were Zoroastrian priests and they knew of the coming of Jesus and followed the Star and Herod asked them to report back when they found the messiah so he could ‘pay tribute’ (slaughter baby Jesus) but they had a dream not to return to Herod. This resulted in the very first unity of religions where the priests of one religion saved another religion and its Messiah from being destroyed before it was even born. Christians do not realise just how much they have to thank those priests for protecting baby Jesus from Herod. In a sense they were the first Christians.
 
TonyBS said:
It is the key to understanding Gods Word, it is the key to an innocent Humility.

You look at a child and teach Him from your Heart and the Child Loves and embraces what comes from your heart.

Teach an Adult this same Love and prior learning can be but a rejection.

Be as a Child ;).

God bless you with great Love

Regards Tony
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That’s very nice however that is not what Matthew 18: 2 is about. It starts with 18:1. By a question by the Disciples. Jesus responds to tell his Disciples that they need to be like Children who depend on their parents. Therefore his disciples are called to humility and depend completely on God.

You should’nt isolate verses from their context.

MJ
 
Techno2000 said:
Spiritual benefits, not earthly Servant 19.
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The quote assumes that one has enough education to see the spiritual benefits of all the major global religions Techno 🙂

But the quote says that these spiritual benefits BECOME VISIBLE…

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Techno2000 said:
Bahá’u’lláh…

XXXII: That which thou hast heard concerning…

That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-32.html
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This is one of the reasons I say Bahai need to work out with Islam first and vice versa. Jesus never mentions Ishmael in anything but talks Isaac.

MJ
 
worldcitizen said:
We are still to have our golden age but since 1844 science has increase a thousandfold and that’s enough to show that the Bab and Baha’u’llah brought about both scientific and technological marvels

Hi Joey,

I added links to your post above to explore.

The “marvellous effects that are so apparent” are the effects the ‘Golden Age’ of each civilisation has had on humanity.

Each Revelation had a distinct lasting effect in things like science, culture, mathematics, medicine, art, architecture, universities, schools, reading and writing, language, poetry and a host of other benefits we take for granted today.

What humanity has today is the gross accumulation of all these civilisations over periods of 1,000’s of years and these marvellous benefits appeared gradually.

Just look up golden age of I.e. Islam etc and you can find all these things.

For instance. The Magi, the 3 wise men were Zoroastrian priests and they knew of the coming of Jesus and followed the Star and Herod asked them to report back when they found the messiah so he could ‘pay tribute’ (slaughter baby Jesus) but they had a dream not to return to Herod. This resulted in the very first unity of religions where the priests of one religion saved another religion and its Messiah from being destroyed before it was even born. Christians do not realise just how much they have to thank those priests for protecting baby Jesus from Herod. In a sense they were the first Christians.
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Ok, I need to know the spiritual benefits that is derived from each one for me and mankind.But you see now how you have to always go back to Jesus.🙂
 
Servant19 said:
The quote assumes that one has enough education to see the spiritual benefits of all the major global religions Techno 🙂

But the quote says that these spiritual benefits BECOME VISIBLE…

.
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Oh, so that means you can’t give me an answer.😉
 
Servant19 said:
Hang on a minute…

You said this:

And I asked for a reference for this, and what you give me is Luke 16:16???

Are we just playing games here dear Jimmy???

It’s time to stand up and answer the questions please…

So it is not a LITERAL Cloud, correct?

It is a cloud that “INDICATES” something else. The Holy Spirit, no less.

Have you studied what a lightening represents in the Old Testament as well?
It’s not a literal lightening…

🤷

.
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Servant, Its not hard to understand what I’ve posted if you choose to believe.
I do understand what what lightening represents in the Old Testament. But whats the baha’i fabrication on it?
 
Servant19 said:
You have neglected to see that ALL of these Individuals you named above have a human station and a Divine station. Each one of them has a specifically prescribed Mission which focuses on either the human station of Prophet-hood, or the Divine station of Prophet-hood, or both.

They were all Manifestations of God according to Baha’i terminology.

.
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All are dead except for Jesus
 
Techno2000 said:
Bahá’u’lláh…

XXXII: That which thou hast heard concerning…

That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God
reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-32.html
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I hope that I am not being an apostate here, but I have never liked the idea of human sacrifice to appease an angry god. In the Episcopal Church I’ve noticed Priests who emphasize Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins, and other Priests who take a different approach. I prefer the latter. The idea of torturing anyone (much less a Holy Teacher) to death so that my sins may be forgiven just doesn’t appeal to me. Even when an animal was sacrificed to YHWH in ancient Judaism, it wasn’t tortured.

Our Holy Teacher repeated proved that He had the power to forgive sins. So it doesn’t make sense that He would have to undergo torture to enable our sins to be forgiven. He had, and always will have, the ability and right to forgive all the sins that He wants to.

I believe that our Teacher’s suffering was a lesson for us about how to comply with His Teachings. If He could do that as a demonstration of how to comply with what He taught, then how can we withhold anything for ourselves if we are asked to give it up?
 
jeffrey_erwin said:
I hope that I am not being an apostate here, but I have never liked the idea of human sacrifice to appease an angry god. In the Episcopal Church I’ve noticed Priests who emphasize Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins, and other Priests who take a different approach. I prefer the latter. The idea of torturing anyone (much less a Holy Teacher) to death so that my sins may be forgiven just doesn’t appeal to me. Even when an animal was sacrificed to YHWH in ancient Judaism, it wasn’t tortured.

Our Holy Teacher repeated proved that He had the power to forgive sins. So it doesn’t make sense that He would have to undergo torture to enable our sins to be forgiven. He had, and always will have, the ability and right to forgive all the sins that He wants to.

I believe that our Teacher’s suffering was a lesson for us about how to comply with His Teachings. If He could do that as a demonstration of how to comply with what He taught, then how can we withhold anything for ourselves if we are asked to give it up?
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All I’m concerned about is the truth.
 
JimmyDFG said:
Servant, Its not hard to understand what I’ve posted if you choose to believe.
I do understand what what lightening represents in the Old Testament. But whats the baha’i fabrication on it?
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I do believe but your apologetics and theological reasoning is poor. 🤷

Is it a fabrication that the meaning of cloud is indicative of the Holy Spirit?

.
 
Servant19 said:
I do believe but your apologetics and theological reasoning is poor. 🤷

Is it a fabrication that the meaning of cloud is indicative of the Holy Spirit?

.
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You really believe that God who created the Heavens, and the Earth couldn’t appear in the clouds ?
 
Servant19 said:
How rude and disrespectful of other religions…

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How in the world is that rude and disrespectful of other religions when you are the one always talking about blind faith and human reason.Now when it come to your Manifestations we have to just take the baha’is word for it that each one has given us Marvelous Spiritual Benefits, but you can’t even tell me one of these benefits.:rolleyes:
 
MartinJordan said:
That’s very nice however that is not what Matthew 18: 2 is about. It starts with 18:1. By a question by the Disciples. Jesus responds to tell his Disciples that they need to be like Children who depend on their parents. Therefore his disciples are called to humility and depend completely on God.

You should’nt isolate verses from their context.

MJ
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Yes and God is our One ultimate Parent and Goal and our Humility is that God Doeth as He Pleaseth and to none is given the right to question.

Baha’u’llah has given us leave to ask one proof from God and one Proof only. If asked and the answer given then it should be sufficient. God tests us, it is not for the servant to test God in any way.

If then we still have issues we should be content with the one proof and search self as to why we have other issues, it is in self we find the barriers/veils and the answers.

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
Baha’u’llah has given us leave to ask one proof from God and one Proof only. If asked and the answer given then it should be sufficient. God tests us, it is not for the servant to test God in any way.

Regards Tony
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We are to ask God who is unknowable according to Baha’u’llah for one proof ?
 
jeffrey_erwin said:
I don’t have a problem with the idea that these teachers of religion were beneficial to their various peoples.

On a different note, I recently noticed something that everyone else has long been aware of, and that is the circumcision of Ishmael… However, to think that the descendents of Ishmael would be just forgotten might be a mistake.

I have mentioned my “scraps from the table” idea. Ishmael, even though the elder, had to be content with the 'hand-me-downs" from his brother Isaac. Mohammed was the one to consolidate these scraps into Islam, and Baha’u’llah was the one to reform Islam into the Baha’i Faith.
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It would be a mistake if one takes on the unproven fact that Mohammad is a descendant of Ishmael, to date this is only wishful thinking.

Let us not make the mistake of forgetting the Patriarch descendants of the cursed, like Abel’s brother Cain, Noah who cursed the line of Ham (Cannan) and the biblical descendants of Lot’s cursed sons Moab, Amon. These cursed Cannanites, Moabites, Amonites also moved and lived among the territories of the pagan Arabs that came later.

Could these same Pagan Arabs be the direct descendants of the cursed line of the historical Patriarchs which became Gentile to the Hebrew faith?

The Bahai faith comes from Iran = Persia. Something to consider in your line of reasoning when it comes to biblical descendants of pagans and the 12 tribes of Israel.

In regards to the OP, I agree with you, ancient pagan (Gentile) religions which grew into today’s existing religions all possess some aspect of Truth to their followers and were beneficial economically and socially for these peoples.

But for Bahaism to make the claim that it is here to join all religions and their belief’s under one banner (Bahaism) is a contradiction of God’s revelation.

Let us not forget what Jesus taught His disciples when such a topic arose; “Do not suppose that I came to bring peace to the world, but I bring a Sword” Matthew 10:34-36

What would Jesus tell the Bab today if the Bab existed during Jesus time? The teaching’s of Jesus are for Christians to follow. To mix the true Christianity Jesus revealed with any other religious belief’s would fall into prostitution of God’s Word. It is here where Jesus revealed to John, " I would prefer you to be hot or cold… but if you are luke warm, I will spew you out of my mouth".

TRUTH stands by itself. TRUTH does not need to be assisted by another truth to remain TRUTH.

Peace be with you
 
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