Exploring Bahaism

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Techno2000 said:
** Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person."**

They don’t find torment and excruciating tortures in Hell to begin with, so the whole premise is wrong right from the start.
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I have also seen that answered above in a post by World Citizen from a talk given by Adul’baha 😉

Regards Tony
 
Techno2000 said:
**

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3:23

If we should say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:8**
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This is no applicable to a Manifestation, again answered above in this thread a few times.

Regards Tony
 
Techno2000 said:
:confused:

“They don’t find torment and excruciating tortures in Hell to begin with, so the whole premise is wrong right from the start”.
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I have also seen that answered above in a post by World Citizen from a talk given by Adul’baha
 
MartinJordan said:
It is very simple worldcitizen. I ask you. What did Jesus say immediately after Mark 10:18 Can you state it here. And we’ll go from there. Baby steps just for you. 🙂

MJ
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Worldcitizen will you please. quote Jesus in Mark 10:19? Or have you chosen not to follow Jesus?

MJ
 
worldcitizen said:
Ok this is why we see things like you refer to in the Quran…(below)

"How often the Prophets of God and His supreme Manifestations in Their prayers confess Their sins and faults! This is only to teach other men, to encourage and incite them to humility and meekness, and to induce them to confess their sins and faults. For these Holy Souls are pure from every sin and sanctified from faults.
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How does he know what sins a Prophet has committed or didnt commit ?
 
MartinJordan said:
Worldcitizen will you please. quote Jesus in Mark 10:19? Or have you chosen not to follow Jesus?

MJ
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**Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
**
 
Techno2000 said:
Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
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Lest we forget to take responsibility when one take Jesus words and don’t follow up.:eek:

MJ
 
worldcitizen said:
Ok this is why we see things like you refer to in the Quran…(below)

"How often the Prophets of God and His supreme Manifestations in Their prayers confess Their sins and faults! This is only to teach other men, to encourage and incite them to humility and meekness, and to induce them to confess their sins and faults. For these Holy Souls are pure from every sin and sanctified from faults.
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So king David just made up a story about him having sex with his friend’s wife Bathsheba so that other people would confess their sins ? 🤷
 
TonyBS said:
By His Fruits you will Know Him, that easy. 172 years on, it is as plain as the noon day sun, unless of course one is inside and has closed the door. 😉

Materialism has put us all in the dark, thinking we are in the manifest light, it is but artificial light we have put ourselves in. 😊

Regards Tony.
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It might have started in 570?
 
Techno2000 said:
Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
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Notice Jesus talks about “ages”

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JimmyDFG said:
It might have started in 570?
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The rejection of Muhammad and the Koran was the decline of Christianity, the Faith of Christ would have produced much fruit if they had embraced the Koran.

So the Date 622 is very relevant.

Regards Tony
 
worldcitizen said:
This is what Abdul-Baha says about Adam. You don’t have to accept it of course as you’ll have your own understanding as we as we all do. It all comes down on Who’s authority Baha’u’llah speaks. If Baha’u’llah IS the return of Christ thrn no matter whether you agree or not He and Abdul-Baha are right.

“Observe that if, according to the suppositions of the People of the Book, the meaning were taken in its exoteric sense, it would be absolute injustice and complete predestination. If Adam sinned by going near the forbidden tree, what was the sin of the glorious Abraham, and what was the error of Moses the Interlocutor? What was the crime of Noah the Prophet? What was the transgression of Joseph the Truthful? What was the iniquity of the Prophets of God, and what was the trespass of John the Chaste? Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.”

The things about Muhammad see next post…
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As for Moses …According to the Hebrew Bible, he was a former Egyptian prince. So he would of worshiped pagan Egyptian gods

Exodus2:10-11
" When the child grew up, she brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter who treated him like a son; she named him Moses ‘because’, she said, ‘I drew him out of the water.’
It happened one day, when Moses was grown up, that he went to see his kinsmen. While he was watching their forced labour he also saw an Egyptian striking a Hebrew, one of his kinsmen."

As you said worldcitizen
“Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.”

Is this part of the reasoning the Baha’i needs to justify there fabrication? Furthermore why would Abdul-Baha use statements like " to find torment in hell " and “excruciating tortures” if its the Baha’i belief that hell is only being further from God
 
Let’s get back to Mark 10:19.

What is Mark 10:19…worldcitizen what about it?

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
Let’s get back to Mark 10:19.

What is Mark 10:19…worldcitizen what about it?

MJ
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MAR10.19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
 
JimmyDFG said:
As for Moses …According to the Hebrew Bible, he was a former Egyptian prince. So he would of worshiped pagan Egyptian gods

Exodus2:10-11
" When the child grew up, she brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter who treated him like a son; she named him Moses ‘because’, she said, ‘I drew him out of the water.’
It happened one day, when Moses was grown up, that he went to see his kinsmen. While he was watching their forced labour he also saw an Egyptian striking a Hebrew, one of his kinsmen."

As you said worldcitizen
“Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.”

Is this part of the reasoning the Baha’i needs to justify there fabrication? Furthermore why would Abdul-Baha use statements like " to find torment in hell " and “excruciating tortures” if its the Baha’i belief that hell is only being further from God
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Heaven and hell are states and conditions not places according to Bahai belief.
 
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