Expose and Engage the ‘Fifth Column’ in the Catholic Church

[edwest2]

catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=33939

Deception is subtle. It plays on the trust and compassion of the people. Our sincere desire to love our neighbors means we need to understand what the Church teaches about the issues of our day. We need to understand this wise counsel. We need to learn about the ways others seek to undermine clear Church teaching. We must avoid being taken advantage of. In that way, we can witness to the truth and not be confused or taken in by the wolves that have come into the fold.

Peace,
Ed

 

[dixieagle]

That was an excellent, and quite disturbing article.

I have seen evidence of this sort of “fifth column” on a number of occasions; I feel strongly that infiltration by people who had their own agenda, rather than a desire to serve the Church and her people, was behind some of the clerical sexual abuse scandal.

 

[Luke65]

Thanks for that, Ed. The “Fifth Column” is those in the “outer court” of the Temple, which is the Church (Revelation 11:2). They are “Gentiles”, that is, unbelievers. Its always those who don’t believe the Holy Scriptures who fulfill them.

 

[North_of_Nod]

Its always those who don’t believe the Holy Scriptures who fulfill them.

It does seem that way, doesn’t it? They tend to bring on the trouble.

 

[Luke65]

It does seem that way, doesn’t it? They tend to bring on the trouble.

Yes. It always amuses me when the heathen accuse Christians (usually Evangelicals) of “trying to bring on the Apocalypse”. They have no idea that that power lies in their hands, not ours…

“When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” (Daniel 12:7)

They are the ones bringing on the Apocalypse! In fulfillment of the Scriptures.

 

[BobCatholic]

The correct thing to do with counterfeiters is to expose their deeds. If someone passes you a counterfeit $20 bill and you spotted it, would you accept the bill anyway? Of course not. You’d warn them they got a fake $20 if they are otherwise people of good will.

But if someone passes you counterfeit faith…do the same. Don’t accept it.

Accepting a fake $20 risks having it confiscated and you investigated by the Secret Service. Accepting fake faith risks more.

 

[North_of_Nod]

Yes. It always amuses me when the heathen accuse Christians (usually Evangelicals) of “trying to bring on the Apocalypse”. They have no idea that that power lies in their hands, not ours…

“When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” (Daniel 12:7)

They are the ones bringing on the Apocalypse! In fulfillment of the Scriptures.

Yeah, that’s absolutely right. They love to blame the Christians, but they’re too blind to see the storm brewing. I feel like we’re building toward something big…I’m not sure if that’s just paranoia or if it’s really justified at this point. I guess time will tell, but it seems like hostility towards Christianity is mounting quickly. There’s a quote from Isaiah that goes something like this, “Woe unto them who call evil good and good evil.” That’s very relevant today, I think.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

A 'fifth column"? This takes me back to the days of HUAC, ‘pinkos’ and ‘fellow-travelers’.

I truly have not heard that term used in decades.

 

[TMC]

I agree in some ways with the author of the article, but I don’t agree that the big “5th Column” problem areas are abortion and gay marriage. He describes the 5th Column as those that dishonestly attempt to mislead others as to what the Church teaches. I see that a lot, both on these forums, in the media, and in real life, but I don’t see it coming from gay rights or abortion supporters.

Many Catholics support gay marriage, and some Catholics are pro-choice, but both on-line and in real life they generally admit that they are going against Church teaching, sometimes also expressing a hope that the Church will change some day. One can differ over whether those who dissent from the Church in those areas should remain in the Church, but I do not see them dishonestly trying to mislead people.

I do see Catholics in open dissent of the Church’s teachings on many other topics attempt to convince Catholics and searching non-Catholics that the Church’s teaching on those topics conforms to their own personal, cultural or political viewpoint, even when any well-catechized Catholic knows that it does not. The most common topics areas in my own experience are salvation for non-Catholics, any and all ecumenical issues, capital punishment, charity and just war. It is in these areas that I see dissenters trying to mislead others as to the Church’s teaching.

 

[manualman]

A 'fifth column"? This takes me back to the days of HUAC, ‘pinkos’ and ‘fellow-travelers’.

I truly have not heard that term used in decades.

I think it is unfortunate that the author used the phrase ‘fifth column’ to describe the dissent and deceive group within the church. The term implies a specific loyalty to a specific leadership outside the Church seeking its destruction. IMO, these folks are more like anarchists than organized infiltrators.

Did you look at the example poster? Surely we can all agree that it is a good example of outright attempted subversion of catholicism.

Regardless of the level of organization, there are TWO mistakes than you can make when an institution becomes riddled with those whose goals are contrary to the institution itself:

1. Get paranoid and start a witch hunt.
2. Be apathetic and do nothing.

Both mistakes are equally destructive, IMO.

Beau, in those decades past did you happen to notice that dozens of countries actually WERE overthrown by oppressive communist regimes? Do you contend that those were imaginery events? One can surely argue that preventive measures in the USA crossed the bounds of paranoia at times (and I’d agree), but there are a whole lot of examples out there of nations that didn’t do enough to prevent the genuine menace of revolution by a communist minority.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Beau, in those decades past did you happen to notice that dozens of countries actually WERE overthrown by oppressive communist regimes? Do you contend that those were imaginery events?

Well, the nuns were all upset about the ‘iron curtain’ countries in the fifties. Then they started in on what the news called the ‘bamboo curtain’ in Asia. Then, Castro took over in '59. There it was! Communism! And only 50 miles away from the US! We had to combat this global scourge which was about to infect us. So we spent a lot of time on our knees praying for the conversion of Russia. You know how that turned out. Communist worldwide domination (Remember Kruschev and “We will bury you!”?) turned out to be far less a threat than feared.

One can surely argue that preventive measures in the USA crossed the bounds of paranoia at times (and I’d agree), but there are a whole lot of examples out there of nations that didn’t do enough to prevent the genuine menace of revolution by a communist minority.

Well, Egypt turned away from Russia, as did India. There was a big Russia - China split. Then, the only English-speaking Marxist country in the Western hemisphere (Grenada) we invaded and overthrew. There has not been a lot of communist takeover of countries. Leftist is something different.

 

[edwest2]

I agree in some ways with the author of the article, but I don’t agree that the big “5th Column” problem areas are abortion and gay marriage. He describes the 5th Column as those that dishonestly attempt to mislead others as to what the Church teaches. I see that a lot, both on these forums, in the media, and in real life, but I don’t see it coming from gay rights or abortion supporters.

Many Catholics support gay marriage, and some Catholics are pro-choice, but both on-line and in real life they generally admit that they are going against Church teaching, sometimes also expressing a hope that the Church will change some day. One can differ over whether those who dissent from the Church in those areas should remain in the Church, but I do not see them dishonestly trying to mislead people.

I do see Catholics in open dissent of the Church’s teachings on many other topics attempt to convince Catholics and searching non-Catholics that the Church’s teaching on those topics conforms to their own personal, cultural or political viewpoint, even when any well-catechized Catholic knows that it does not. The most common topics areas in my own experience are salvation for non-Catholics, any and all ecumenical issues, capital punishment, charity and just war. It is in these areas that I see dissenters trying to mislead others as to the Church’s teaching.

The thing to remember is that both abortion and gay marriage have been and continue to be marketed as very positive things - rights. Once well-meaning Catholics begin to, in their minds, sympathize with those who support these two things, they do go against Church teaching, often without examining it. Church teaching is not paraded through the media.

In 1972, I watched and listened as abortion supporters begged and pleaded for us to have compassion on young women. Please, please, remember the victims of rape and incest. “This is the most difficult decision a woman will ever have to make and is betweeen her and her God.” It was a “use in case of emergency only” procedure. But once the door is opened a little it gets kicked down. Abortion on demand.

Similar tactics are being used to promote gay marriage. But a careful reading of clear Church teaching shows that the appeals to fairness or against discrimination avoid the fundamental issues. Catholics hearing their message can become confused and then some may honestly believe the Church has it wrong. Commenting on gay marriage, a friend of mine said, What’s the problem? They’re not hurting anyone.

The problem is that in Massachussetts, little kids are being taught the gay lifestyle is OK. A story book titled King and King is on their reading list. But “it is not a parental notification issue.” In other words, mom and dad cannot complain or say reasonable things like, We will talk to our kids about it when they’re old enough. They are too young to understand this.

Peace,
Ed

 

[manualman]

… There has not been a lot of communist takeover of countries. Leftist is something different.

You have got to be kidding me. Ever look at maps of what lies east of Germany?

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

You have got to be kidding me. Ever look at maps of what lies east of Germany?

Poland?

How many soviet socialist republics are there in that union now?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Well, the nuns were all upset about the ‘iron curtain’ countries in the fifties. Then they started in on what the news called the ‘bamboo curtain’ in Asia. Then, Castro took over in '59. There it was! Communism! And only 50 miles away from the US! We had to combat this global scourge which was about to infect us. So we spent a lot of time on our knees praying for the conversion of Russia. You know how that turned out.

Your prayers led to the fall of Russia! Thanks be to God!

 

[manualman]

Poland?

How many soviet socialist republics are there in that union now?

I’m sure that’s a big comfort to the millions who suffered under communist oppression for over 70 years. I’m very disappointed to hear you utterly discount what happened to them.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

I’m sure that’s a big comfort to the millions who suffered under communist oppression for over 70 years. I’m very disappointed to hear you utterly discount what happened to them.

I didn’t discount a thing. I thought we were talking about now. Isn’t it now that people are using this hackneyed term?

 

[opiemuyo]

A fifth column is a group of people who clandestinely undermine a larger group, such as a nation, from within, to the aid of an external enemy. Using the above definition I son’t think it is hackneyed at all. IMO, very aproperate use of the term. Lets get back on subject instead of the English lesson.

 

[Oceanon]

Covert activity is just that – covert.

However, there are those who refer to themselves as Catholic who support ‘gay marriage,’ Dick Cheney, for one.

There is nothing covert about this – it is overt, defiant, and an open challenge to The Church.

 

[TMC]

Covert activity is just that – covert.

However, there are those who refer to themselves as Catholic who support ‘gay marriage,’ Dick Cheney, for one.

There is nothing covert about this – it is overt, defiant, and an open challenge to The Church.

Dick Cheney is Methodist.