Extraordinary Ministers

[Mrs_Sally]

I do not mind EMHCs at all. What I object to is them giving out blessings during communion as if they were priests. Blessing your children at home or praying for someone is one thing, but giving out blessings during Mass is not right.

This “cross your arms across your chest and get a blessing” thing done at my parish is very irritating to me.

But again, who’s fault is this? Did an EMHC stand up at Mass one day and announce that they give out blessings? I doubt it. Has the priest ever said anythign in a homily, bulletin, or general conversation about not coming up for blessings during communion? Probably not either.

These situations grow over time. Families bring all their children up when the parents receive communion and father blesses the young children. Later they come up in an EMHCs line and expect the same. The EMHC probably doesn’t know what to do and rather than ignore the person standing in front of her, she says “God bless you” and it snowballs from there.

It is up to the pastor to discourage people (especially older children or adults) from coming up at all during communion, during homilies, in announcements, etc. Obviously parents may still need to bring smaller children with them. In the middle of communion, with a person standing in front of you with their arms crossed over their chest is not the time for catechesis.

 

[TheDoctor]

15 minutes for communion does seem rather excessive in the USA.

Unless you live in my parish, where we have 800 - 1000 people for the 8, 9, 10:30 and 12:00 masses and 2 priests, one way into the parking lot and one way out onto the main route through town. Mass has to be done in time to get everyone out of church and out of the parking lot and allow everyone else in. It is why I am glad my pastor bears the responsibility for managing not only the distribution of Holy Communion and use of EMHC’s but also homily length, announcements, etc.

 

[promethius]

The people complain when there are as many EMHC as there is in the pews at Mass.

Again, though, on CAF people treat that as though 95% of masses have a bajillion EMHCs and two people present for communion. That simply isn’t the case. Situations like you’re referring to are the exception rather than the norm, by far.

It’s important in a charitable discussion that is going to have progress to avoid hyperbolic speech that doesn’t accurately portray reality.

 

[TimothyH]

8 EMHC’s for a small Mass is overkill. We all agree on that.

But I think it might be useful to understand when a priest legitmately needs an extraordinary minister because I fear there are some misconceptions.

A priest might go to the tabernacle before Mass and find one full ciborium of hosts (each holds about 200 hosts) and one partially full, or two more than half full so that they cannot be consolidated into one ciborium. If he is ready to celebrate a small weekday Mass, he will place one host in the paten to consecrate at the altar and that’s it. After consecration, right before the Sanctus, he will go to the tabernacle and retrieve both ciboria. The priest will not leave one ciborium in the tabernacle and remove the other - he will bring Jesus, all of Jesus, to the altar. But now he has a problem. He has only twenty or thirty people at Mass but two ciboria. Like leaving one ciborium in the tabernacle and bringing another to the altar, he will not leave one at the altar alone while he distributes from the foot of the sanctuary with the other. Jesus is not to be left at the altar alone! Niether will he try to carry both ciboria while he distributes for fear of spilling them. In this case, he will ask for an EMHC or one will have been arranged ahead of time. To many this has the appearance of an abuse because there are only a few people at Mass and he does not really need them to help distribute, but it is the number of hosts present and the fact that with two ciboria he cannot leave Jesus alone at the altar which dictates the use of at least one EMHC in this case.

I am a sacristan. I somtimes set up for Mass. One morning I looked in the tabernacle and there were four full ciboria! This was prior to a small Saturday morning Mass. In this case, we had to recruit two EMHC’s to distribute to less than fifty people. Again, the number of hosts and number of ciboria dictate what has to happen. Even though there were only 40 or so people at Mass that day, Father had to stand at the altar with two of the ciboria while two EMHC’s distributed from the other two ciboria. Jesus cannot be left alone on the altar! To the untrained eye it looks as if the priest priest is standing idle at that altar while unnecessary EMHC’s do the work he is supposed to do. But in reality, the priest was being reverent, staying at the altar with Jesus exactly like he is supposed to.

The opposite is true too, where all the hosts have been consolidated to one ciborium and lots of people show up. In this case the priest will put some on the paten for himself to distribute or the sacristan (if they are experienced) will have put out an empty bread plate for him to use. He will hand the ciborium to the EMHC and he will distribute from the paten or bread plate. We had a couple of basketball teams and their family walk in one morning just as Mass was staring prior to a tournament at the parish school. I was altar serving that day and as Father gave me the sign of peace, he said, “Go get me a large bread plate.” I had to go to the safe and get a vessel for him and place it on the altar and he had to say out loud, “I need one extraordinary minister please. If you are an extraordinary minister, please come forward.” To the untrained it looked sloppy. But we were not expecting a basketball tournament.

It’s not always cut and dry. At the end of the day it is the priest who is responsible for making sure enough hosts or not too many are consecrated, but often times it is the sacristan who makes that decision from day to day and from Mass to Mass, especially in big parishes. An experienced sacristan is a blessing to the priest and to the parish. But it is not always cut and dry.

-Tim-

 

[paperwight66]

I’m not sure I follow you, Tim. I am a sacristan and an EMHC. I don’t see why both ciboria have to be brought to the altar if they are not needed.

There is always a large Host left in our Tabernacle in its own pyx ready to be used at the weekly Exposition. Every now and then It is consumed, and a fresh one consecrated, but meanwhile, this Host is left in the Tabernacle during Mass. So if it is alright for one Host to be ‘left unattended’ in your terms, I don’t see why a ciborium can’t be. It is the same Blessed Sacrament.

 

[thomas_jd]

8 EMHC’s for a small Mass is overkill. We all agree on that.

But I think it might be useful to understand when a priest legitmately needs an extraordinary minister because I fear there are some misconceptions.

A priest might go to the tabernacle before Mass and find one full ciborium of hosts (each holds about 200 hosts) and one partially full, or two more than half full so that they cannot be consolidated into one ciborium. If he is ready to celebrate a small weekday Mass, he will place one host in the paten to consecrate at the altar and that’s it. After consecration, right before the Sanctus, he will go to the tabernacle and retrieve both ciboria. The priest will not leave one ciborium in the tabernacle and remove the other - he will bring Jesus, all of Jesus, to the altar. But now he has a problem. He has only twenty or thirty people at Mass but two ciboria. Like leaving one ciborium in the tabernacle and bringing another to the altar, he will not leave one at the altar alone while he distributes from the foot of the sanctuary with the other. Jesus is not to be left at the altar alone! Niether will he try to carry both ciboria while he distributes for fear of spilling them. In this case, he will ask for an EMHC or one will have been arranged ahead of time. To many this has the appearance of an abuse because there are only a few people at Mass and he does not really need them to help distribute, but it is the number of hosts present and the fact that with two ciboria he cannot leave Jesus alone at the altar which dictates the use of at least one EMHC in this case.

I am a sacristan. I somtimes set up for Mass. One morning I looked in the tabernacle and there were four full ciboria! This was prior to a small Saturday morning Mass. In this case, we had to recruit two EMHC’s to distribute to less than fifty people. Again, the number of hosts and number of ciboria dictate what has to happen. Even though there were only 40 or so people at Mass that day, Father had to stand at the altar with two of the ciboria while two EMHC’s distributed from the other two ciboria. Jesus cannot be left alone on the altar! To the untrained eye it looks as if the priest priest is standing idle at that altar while unnecessary EMHC’s do the work he is supposed to do. But in reality, the priest was being reverent, staying at the altar with Jesus exactly like he is supposed to.

The opposite is true too, where all the hosts have been consolidated to one ciborium and lots of people show up. In this case the priest will put some on the paten for himself to distribute or the sacristan (if they are experienced) will have put out an empty bread plate for him to use. He will hand the ciborium to the EMHC and he will distribute from the paten or bread plate. We had a couple of basketball teams and their family walk in one morning just as Mass was staring prior to a tournament at the parish school. I was altar serving that day and as Father gave me the sign of peace, he said, “Go get me a large bread plate.” I had to go to the safe and get a vessel for him and place it on the altar and he had to say out loud, “I need one extraordinary minister please. If you are an extraordinary minister, please come forward.” To the untrained it looked sloppy. But we were not expecting a basketball tournament.

It’s not always cut and dry. At the end of the day it is the priest who is responsible for making sure enough hosts or not too many are consecrated, but often times it is the sacristan who makes that decision from day to day and from Mass to Mass, especially in big parishes. An experienced sacristan is a blessing to the priest and to the parish. But it is not always cut and dry.

-Tim-

Why were 800 Consecrated hosts in the tabernacle? Taking for granted your priest accepted a overabundance of hosts from a particular outside event( outside of your parish that is) or someone in your parish just forgot to count the number of hosts in the tabernacle, either senario raises a flag or two. Just curious!

The tabernacle does not need to be empty during mass, note a large host usually remains consecrated for Benediction.Is that also exposed during mass at the altar or does your tabernacle not contain one?

A priest distributes the Eucharist unless there is a physical impediment.
As you were serving perhaps you misunderstood Fr.'s actions
Reverance does not trump the rules.
It appears that the large unexpected crowd was handled properly.
The priest often makes decisions that those in the pews question. I usually give the priests the benefit of the doubt.The abuse falls on their shoulders, they are the responsible ones for The Ministers of Care and E.M.H.C.'s

 

[Dan_Daly]

Unless you live in my parish, where we have 800 - 1000 people for the 8, 9, 10:30 and 12:00 masses and 2 priests, one way into the parking lot and one way out onto the main route through town. Mass has to be done in time to get everyone out of church and out of the parking lot and allow everyone else in. It is why I am glad my pastor bears the responsibility for managing not only the distribution of Holy Communion and use of EMHC’s but also homily length, announcements, etc.

Why does the last Mass have to be at noon?

 

[TimothyH]

Why were 800 Consecrated hosts in the tabernacle? Taking for granted your priest accepted a overabundance of hosts from a particular outside event( outside of your parish that is) or someone in your parish just forgot to count the number of hosts in the tabernacle, either senario raises a flag or two. Just curious!

The tabernacle does not need to be empty during mass, note a large host usually remains consecrated for Benediction.Is that also exposed during mass at the altar or does your tabernacle not contain one?

A priest distributes the Eucharist unless there is a physical impediment.
As you were serving perhaps you misunderstood Fr.'s actions
Reverance does not trump the rules.
It appears that the large unexpected crowd was handled properly.
The priest often makes decisions that those in the pews question. I usually give the priests the benefit of the doubt.The abuse falls on their shoulders, they are the responsible ones for The Ministers of Care and E.M.H.C.'s

Yes, you are correct about the host in the luna. That stays in the tabernacle. You are correct.

-Tim-

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Why were 800 Consecrated hosts in the tabernacle? Taking for granted your priest accepted a overabundance of hosts from a particular outside event( outside of your parish that is) or someone in your parish just forgot to count the number of hosts in the tabernacle, either senario raises a flag or two. Just curious!

The tabernacle does not need to be empty during mass, note a large host usually remains consecrated for Benediction.Is that also exposed during mass at the altar or does your tabernacle not contain one?

A priest distributes the Eucharist unless there is a physical impediment.
As you were serving perhaps you misunderstood Fr.'s actions
Reverance does not trump the rules.
It appears that the large unexpected crowd was handled properly.
The priest often makes decisions that those in the pews question. I usually give the priests the benefit of the doubt.The abuse falls on their shoulders, they are the responsible ones for The Ministers of Care and E.M.H.C.'s

Is it wrong that I found that funny?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Why does the last Mass have to be at noon?

It doesn’t have to be, however, money does need to be counted and accounted for within a reasonable timeframe for insurance purposes. Also, not many people are going to come to an afternoon Mass on a Sunday. The organist can’t be running around all day either. etc. etc. etc.

There’s practicalities that need to be attended to…

 

[Langdell]

Thank you for pointing that out. Ordinary ministers perform a function by virtue of their office. Extraordinary ministers perform a function by delegation/permission. The old Roman Ritual used to explicitly state “The ordinary minister of confirmation is the bishop alone. The extraordinary minister is a priest to whom this faculty has been granted…”

While canon law still states that the Bishop is the Ordinary minister of Confirmation I don’t hear complaints of abuse when bishops delegated local priests for the sacrament…

Indeed, is not “the Ordinary” another term for a Bishop?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Indeed, is not “the Ordinary” another term for a Bishop?

Yes, the Ordinary is a term for the diocesan bishop.

 

[Digitonomy]

Did an EMHC stand up at Mass one day and announce that they give out blessings? I doubt it. Has the priest ever said anythign in a homily, bulletin, or general conversation about not coming up for blessings during communion? Probably not either.

These situations grow over time.

On the contrary, a visiting priest recently said “If you are not receiving communion, please come up for a blessing.” Worse, there were 5 different ministers of communion distributing hosts, plus another 5 distributing the species of wine, and I believe all but the priest were EMHCs.

 

[Phemie]

No. Those men who are instituted acolytes have shown at least a degree of receptivity to the idea of becoming priests, even if they didn’t become acolytes as a step to the priesthood.

How have they shown a degree of receptivity to the idea of becoming priests if they are permanent instituted acolytes?

 

[YoungTradCath]

How have they shown a degree of receptivity to the idea of becoming priests if they are permanent instituted acolytes?

Not per se, but I think it is reasonable to say that they have at least shown that they wish to make themselves available to the service of the priest in assisting him with things that are, by their sacrificial nature of the altar, priestly in capacity.

 

[Phemie]

Not per se, but I think it is reasonable to say that they have at least shown that they wish to make themselves available to the service of the priest in assisting him with things that are, by their sacrificial nature of the altar, priestly in capacity.

Not any more than men who have been committed altar servers for decades without being instituted.

 

[dochawk]

Indeed, is not “the Ordinary” another term for a Bishop?

A bishop is th Ordinary in hs diocese, but there are other Ordinaries out there, too.

Abbots, for example, are often the Ordinary with the abbey, and there are a couple of other cases of non-episcopal ordinaries.

hawk

 

[Mrs_Sally]

On the contrary, a visiting priest recently said “If you are not receiving communion, please come up for a blessing.” Worse, there were 5 different ministers of communion distributing hosts, plus another 5 distributing the species of wine, and I believe all but the priest were EMHCs.

That is my point. The fault lies with the priest for encouraging people. Once he said that, what were the EMHCs supposed to do, have an arguement with someone in the middle of communion? No, they likely simply said “God bless you” to people much as you would say to your own children. If one or two, who have a flair for the dramatic, also touched the person, that isn’t enough to condemn all EMHCs everywhere for “blessing people like they thought they were priests” as I’ve heard some say.

 

[paperwight66]

That is my point. The fault lies with the priest for encouraging people. Once he said that, what were the EMHCs supposed to do, have an arguement with someone in the middle of communion? No, they likely simply said “God bless you” to people much as you would say to your own children. If one or two, who have a flair for the dramatic, also touched the person, that isn’t enough to condemn all EMHCs everywhere for “blessing people like they thought they were priests” as I’ve heard some say.

Quite. What IS the EMHC to do? They can’t get into an argument, which could cause a disruption, because if your parish is like mine, the musicians are at the front so the dialogue would go something like this : EHMC ; I’m so sorry, I can’t give a blessing’
Person ‘Sorry, what did you say?’. EMHC repeats the apology. Person : ‘Oh. what should I do then, little Johnny loves getting a blessing, have we got to go round to where the priest is, then?’ EMHC ‘Sorry, what did you say?’ And so on.

Now as it happens, tthe bishops of England and Wales have come out and said that those who don’t receive for whatever reason are to be encouraged to come forward with arms crossed for a blessing, so it’s not black and white as some seem to think.

All EMHCs know they are not priests. Most of them are parents, grandparents, aunties. They are quite happy to say ‘God bless you’ to children as they would to their own, and to adults too, if they present themselves.
Don’t people say ‘God bless’ to their friends when they are in distress or facing some crisis like an operation?

EMHCs know that is what they are doing, being helpful and welcoming to those who can’t receive, and above all, avoiding embarrassment for those who have joined their line.

 

[thistle]

It doesn’t have to be, however, money does need to be counted and accounted for within a reasonable timeframe for insurance purposes. Also, not many people are going to come to an afternoon Mass on a Sunday. The organist can’t be running around all day either. etc. etc. etc.

There’s practicalities that need to be attended to…

We have 10 Masses every Sunday.

5.30am
6.45am
8.00am
9.15am
10.30am
3.30pm
4.45pm
6.00pm
7.15pm
8.30pm