Extraordinary Ministers

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Michael038 said:
No, it needs to be used properly. When needed only.
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I concur with the latter half of your statement. I think overall, clarification as to when laity distributing communion is “absolutely necessary” is needed however.

I am seeing a great many people who feel that it is a requirement because having four ministers distribute in addition to the priest makes the communion line move faster.
 
I was homebound for three months - could not attend Sunday Mass or Daily Mass. If it was not for Extraordinary Ministers I would not have been able to receive Our Lord.

Why are your Extraordinary Ministers on the Altar during the consecration? At our parish they do not even approach until after the priest has received.
 
Sir_Knight said:
You seem to like calling people names – “Martin Luther”, “Speed Racer”, …

Not very charitable :nope: especially the “Martin Luther” insult towards a long-time and respected member.
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Sorry, Sport.
 
LSK said:
I was homebound for three months - could not attend Sunday Mass or Daily Mass. If it was not for Extraordinary Ministers I would not have been able to receive Our Lord.

Why are your Extraordinary Ministers on the Altar during the consecration? At our parish they do not even approach until after the priest has received.
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As I said in an earlier post, I am an EMHC. We wait until the priest has taken his Communion (both Body and Blood) until we go up to the altar. Then the priest gives each of us the Body of Christ, then he gives each EMHC who is distributing the Blood of Christ their chalice, then they give the chalice to those of us who are not distributing the Blood of Christ. Then the priest gives the EMHC’s who are distributing the Body of Christ the plates with the Hosts. We never take anything off the altar ourselves.
 
rjs1 said:
It is a historical fact that the Church was resisting the idea of Communion in the hand until Catholics, actually BREAKING THE THEN CHURCH LITURGICAL LAWS, started receiving Holy Communion in the hand and then later insisted that this was what the people wanted. The same thing happened with regards to altar girls.
In other words, sometimes the Church allows things, that ideally should not be allowed, in order to placate a noisy section of the liberal clergy and laity.
It.
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quite right in the brief but incomplete history you give, but the fact remains in this country these things are permitted. we have no right to ascribe “plactation” of the noisy laity as the reason for these permissions. As Catholics it is our duty to obey our bishops in everything that is not sinful. It is the Church, not personal preference that determines what is permitted and what is not.

While many of the points stated in this discussion are well-taken, and the abuse arising from many of these changes is in some places horrendous, the solution is to remedy the abuse until such time as the disciplines change again. The solution is not for isolated cells of more-holy-than-the-pope folks to shout down everything else that is not to their liking.

The tone of most of the responses, on both sides of the issue, in this thread is “What I am seeing conflicts with my personal preferences, childhood experience, and comfort level.” That attitude is not productive in a discussion whose goal is bringing unity of mind and practice directed to restoring the respect for and belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

the purpose of the practices used in liturgical ministry is to serve the priest who IS Christ in the sacrifice of the Mass, and the purpose of the Mass is to praise and worship God in the manner ordained and instituted by Christ. Christ founded his Church and the Holy Spirit guides and protects it in determining how this is done through history in various times and places.

Anything that takes us away from out duty of humble obedience to this Church is detracting from the very fruits of the liturgy. that anything includes, by the way, the egregious acts against charity that are behind so much of the true abuse we do see.

I respectfully suggest we cease entering every church like a SWAT team expecting and looking for abuses to rail against, and instead prepare our minds and hearts to participate in the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and ignore anything that becomes a distraction, unless it is a true abuse that renders the event illicit or invalid.
 
TimOliv said:
If you have one priest performing 6 weekend masses he has a serious dilemma since he is limited in the number of masses he can perform in one day…*.
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in this diocese priests with no assistants (only 3-4 parishes have mroe than one priest) or those who have missions to attend to (some have 3-4 far-flung locations requiring Mass each week) are given permission for an extra Mass. 5 is supposed to be the limit but permission can be obtained if there is a wedding or funeral, for instance. Some priests have standing permission for an extra Mass if they cannot find someone to help them.

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So your answer is to hand priestly duties to the laity? Eaaaaaasy there, Martin Luther, I think instead of putting lay bandaids on things we should be doing more to encourage vocations…
whoa nelly, I never anywhere on this thread or anywhere else said I personally approve the institution and practice of EMHCs, communion in the hand (those who have been here a while know I prefer intinction) or 98% of what passes for liturgical music these days. What I did say that what the Church permits and prescribes is the norm for our obedience and practice, not my personal belief and preference. Every parish in this diocese has been ordered to and does pray publicly for vocations, and for a small diocese we have more seminarians in the pipeline than most others. The diaconate formation program has just been reinstated (after a long hiatus to address abuses in the process) but deacons do not replace priests, they have their own ordained functions and ministry.

.Not just more priests, but how about supporting candidates for the permanent diaconate who would be able to replace Eucharistic Ministers?.

forgot to say that the issue of extra Masses is one addressed by the Synod and this bishop probably will, if has not already done so, enforce the limit on the number of Masses one priest may offer, and at the same time limit the communion services that are often offered on Sunday, precisely for the reason you suggest, to highlight the urgent need to foster vocations.
 
I don’t really think its the position that needs reform, its the people ‘called’ to serve in those roles… I admit, there are at times a need for such ExtraOrdinary Ministers, but they should be EXTRA ORDINARY! I recently heard a priest during a mass of maybe 75 people that he had 155 minsiters! And he was inviting more to join and sign up. Its not a club! How often do these ministers line up at Mass to serve, but fail to make sick calls during the week? I am sure you have heard of public officials who are known not to be in step with the church who continue to serve as Extra Ordinary Ministers.

There should probably be some additional formation and requirements, but I don’t see the need in adding more laws and rules. It requires a change of heart and true desire to serve the Lord and his church! You have to serve Him in your own homes and in your own lives before you can effectively serve and witness to others. This is the #1 reason that I do not think I could serve. I AM NOT WORTHY!

These ministers should be hand picked based on their formation, service to the church, ability to serve sick calls, etc. It is a privilege to serve at the altar, not a right! True story, we actually had a new parishioner tell our pastor that they were going to “petition the bishop” because our pastor told them that he did not need an Extra ordinary minister at the time.

If its speed that everyone is concerned about (so they can get to the game?) there are other means. I actually heard a traditional POST VII priest tell say that he was keeping the old altar rail in his parish, because he discovered that the older parishioners could receive communion faster by using the altar rails and avoiding the standing lines!

Are they needed? Probably. But where are the Deacons? The permanent deacon role was never abolished! Let’s pray for vocations!

Remember when the priests treated their bishops like their boss? The Bishop was the head of HR! If you were out of line, he took care of it! I guess with the shortage of staff, the bishops are not so quick to reprimand a priest who is probably overworked already! Same could be true for parishioners. The priest are not willing to turn away help. The overworked priest is probably thinking that any help (even if not properly formed) is better than known at all? I think if you see an issue that tugs at your heart, then you should get involved and try to fix it by becoming an ExtraOrdinary minister yourself or head up the Religious Education department! Pretty soon, you will be as overworked at the parish priest and will start to pick your battles more selectively. So let’s start with those most offensive to the Eucharist first!

Oops, I’m lecturing… Gotta go!
 
kleary said:
Abolished for liturgical use - YES. Everything happening on the Liturgy must show our Catholic Faith - it is called Lex Orendi - Lex Credendi.

A lay person distributing Holy Communion does not show any Catholic Doctrine whatsoever and can be confused with Protestant Heresy due to previous church teaching that taught of the sacreligiousness of lay people touching the Sacred Host.

When they came out with “Ex Mins” and Communion in the hand they said it was to express our own “priesthood”.

Abolished for bringing Holy Communion to the sick - also YES. The priests need to get off their duffs and do what they are supposed to do! They even have two days of communion services at a local parish here so that the priest can have two days off!!! So Holy Mass is abolished for those two days at the parish.

And at my parish THERE ARE NO EXTRAORDINARY MINISTERS. Father runs everywhere doing sick calls himself and bringing Holy Communion- and also distributing It Himself at the communion rail every day and twice on Sunday! To a PACKED CONGREGATION as well.

THEY ARE NOT NEEDED!!! Not needed at all.

Ken
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You are blessed to be in a parish small enough that one priest can handle everything. I’m in a parish of more than 21,000 registered people plus we have a large number of people attending our 2 Spanish language Sunday masses who won’t register in the parish, possibly because they are here illegally. We have one priest who is over 60 with a bad back and 5 English masses packed with more than 1200 people, plus the 2 in Spanish. I know the numbers because it is easy to see every pew is full, plus the balcony, plus people standing in the side aisles, plus more than 100 extra chairs in the back and even behind the glass in our narthex with closed circuit TV!

Even using our deacons and EMHC our communion takes more than 20 minutes with the lines moving as fast as possible while still retaining the dignity and reverence. We cannot use less people and take longer because parishioners are already crossing in the parking lot while trying to get in/out on time for the next mass. Praise God that we now have a visiting priest from Africa to be our parochial vicar for one year, but he must periodically travel to learn about Catholic youth camps and ministry which is why he came here.

We began perpetual Eucharistic Adoration (PEA) for an increase in vocations to the priesthood from our parish in May 2005 and currently we have about 10 seminarians. Praise God! However, until these fabulous young men get ordained and working and many other parishes have as many priestly vocations, well. . . we still need EMHCs.
 
In the Tirdentine Mass, under no circumstances someone may not recieve communion in the hand - are the indult Tridentine Masses contradicting the teachings of the church by doing this?

(honest question knight, not being fascicious)
 
CatholicNick said:
In the Tirdentine Mass, under no circumstances, someone may not recieve communion in the hand - are the indult Tridentine Masses contradicting the teachings of the church by doing this?

(honest question knight, not being fascicious)
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CatholicNick said:
In the Tirdentine Mass, under no circumstances someone may not recieve communion in the hand - are the indult Tridentine Masses contradicting the teachings of the church by doing this?

(honest question knight, not being fascicious)
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Parish custom and Church law are two different things. If the custom of the parish is not to permit communion in the hand (because they use the Tridentine Mass, which by the way is also an indult), then you don’t do it at that parish.

But nobody at that parish has any right to criticize people at other parishes who are permitted to receive in the hand, since Church law permits this - nobody is breaking any rules.

Just fyi, both the Tridentine Mass and communion in the hand are available to us by indult - if you want to do away with indults, then be prepared to lose both. 😉
 
Sir_Knight said:
You see nothing wrong with agreeing with a statement that contradicts the teachings of the Church? :confused:
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It doesn’t technically disagree with the teachings of the church. The Eastern Rite and anyone observing the TLM would not have anyone except a priest (and in some cases a deacon) handle the Blessed Sacrament.
 
jmcrae said:
Parish custom and Church law are two different things. If the custom of the parish is not to permit communion in the hand (because they use the Tridentine Mass, which by the way is also an indult), then you don’t do it at that parish.

But nobody at that parish has any right to criticize people at other parishes who are permitted to receive in the hand, since Church law permits this - nobody is breaking any rules.

Just fyi, both the Tridentine Mass and communion in the hand are available to us by indult - if you want to do away with indults, then be prepared to lose both. 😉
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No one is criticizing people at another church. We are criticizing the practice of the churches which do certain things. Which, being members of the church, and doing so within the context of permissable law, we actually do have the right. So really, you don’t have the right to tell anyone they don’t have the right to criticize.
 
TimOliv said:
No one is criticizing people at another church. We are criticizing the practice of the churches which do certain things.
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Yes - those who make use of EMHCs and those which permit receiving on the hand.
Which, being members of the church, and doing so within the context of permissable law, we actually do have the right. So really, you don’t have the right to tell anyone they don’t have the right to criticize.
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I don’t think that we as individuals have permission from anyone to forbid to others what the Church permits them. If an individual chooses not to receive on the hand, that’s fine - but we can’t go around telling other people that they can’t. The Church has already told them that they can.
 
TimOliv said:
It doesn’t technically disagree with the teachings of the church.
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If the church allows it and they disagree with it, how can you say that* “It doesn’t technically disagree with the teachings of the church”*?
 
Victorious said:
Deacons are ordinary ministers of the Eucharist.
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No they are not. They lack the capacity to confect the Eucharist. They are ordinary ministers of Holy Communion, which is different.

According to CIC 900, “The minister who is able to confect the sacrament of the Eucharist in the person of Christ is a validly ordained priest alone.”
 
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