Extreme disruptions during Mass

[pnewton]

If your brat “does not have the ability to focus and listen to anything at that age” THEN LEAVE HER THE HECK HOME UNTIL SHE DOES .

This is a good example of the exact opposite of what Jesus instructed us to do about little children. It is His body we receive and His liturgy we attend. What Jesus desires concerning children is far more important than what we desire. I think you are fortunate to have a priest that understands this. Also, a one time, or even a three or four time problem is best not addressed. So many things could be going on, like teething or illness. On the other hand, the problem may be with the parent. Perhaps this is a situation of someone reaching our to God in repentance and returning to the Church. I would not want to be the one to cause them to stumble, with that whole millstone thing.

Practically, there are some real solutions, the first being to put oneself in the shoes of the other parent. As to the child, it may truly be a situation of ignorance that the priest, or even the greeter may address if this is a real problem. What must not happen is they be discouraged from attending Mass. That is flat wrong. A child that never is taken to Mass never learns how to behave and such a parent never receives the grace needed to deal with it.

 

[ora_pro_nobis]

NancyCNM - I am with you all the way on this! :clapping:

It’s very sad the way this thread has developed, and I hope when the OP goes to Mass tomorrow that the family with the noisy child are there to receive her hand of friendship and offer of support.

 

[jmcrae]

A child that never is taken to Mass never learns how to behave and such a parent never receives the grace needed to deal with it.

Where is it written that a child may only be taught about the Mass while he is actually at Mass?

What ever happened to the concept of home training?

Did they teach you firefighting by throwing you into real house fires right from day one? Or did they talk to you about what’s involved in a quiet place away from all that, and then have you do some simulations, first?

Children who don’t receive home training can’t be expected to behave themselves at Mass, because they’ve never been told what’s going on, or done “play Masses” at home for role playing. But if the child is home trained, then everyone in the whole family will receive graces from coming to Mass, because everyone will know what’s going on, and what their role is.

 

[pnewton]

Where is it written that a child may only be taught about the Mass while he is actually at Mass?

What ever happened to the concept of home training?

Well, call me silly, but I believe there is a grace associated with the seven Sacraments that you do not get by watching Mass on television or “playing Mass”. I also did not say that a child can only be taught at Mass, but to use your firefighter analogy, I do not want a fire fighter that has only be taught from a book without any actual hands on experience. I think most parents will agree that have gone through the training of the child at Mass will agre that while one can prep a child, the real training does not start until you actual arrive.

Besides, what is the problem? Noise? Show me where Jesus said Mass had to be quiet and I will show you chapter and verse where he said to bring the little children to Him. This was said in the contexts of some well-meaning disciples trying to protect him from disruption. It is a direct application of the Scripture.

 

[wifenmommy]

Hmm. I have read almost all of the posts.

I wonder if the original poster was genuinely asking for ideas or wanting a cheering section for an opinion (ie support) that may be perhaps a bit self-righteous? Dont judge me or make me out to be a “bad guy” because I did not have the patience to withstand an hour of shrieking.

Many of the replies have been totally disrepectful, totally judgmental, and largely unchristian in general.Hmmmmm, as you were when you jusdged me to be self righteous? Good grief- who would want to be a Catholic, let alone have children if they were met with this kind of response on a routine basis? Did no one ever hear of CHARITY? It is not a crime to expect parents to parent their kids you know…Charity has nothing to do with it. The parent of this child wasnt being very charitable when they allowed their child to be a major major MAJOR distraction throught the ENTIRE Mass.that wasnt very charitable was it to keep an entire congregation from hearing the Mass was it?

I read about folks worried about how they feel and appearances and opinions on childrearing, when not one person, aside from the original poster was even at the church in question. Then one person dares to say that her children might not be perfect, and she is then accused of faulty childrearing by what appears to be an “internet mob” on a supposedly Catholic/Christian forum???

Do you not realize that YOU will be judged, as you are judging others???
Hmmm…again like when you threw out that self righteous remark.
When Christ came to earth- He did it as a baby- He was concieved to an UNWED mother (gasp!) to those looking from the outside-, He chose a POOR family, He associated himself with the worst of sinners- thieves, liars, adulterers, people possessed by Satan and other demons, people in rags, without shoes…When the disciples were going to send away the children- it was because THEY thought it was not the proper place or time - Christ very clearly said otherwise. Children are children, and are very seldom perfectly behaved. Christ did not say “only those behaving well”.
I agree with this statement but however it does not pertain to this discussion.
There are no cry-rooms in many churches- NOT because of lack of foresight or funding, but because no one should be separated from the Body of Christ- WE are the body- ALL of us, ESPECIALLY children. Children or anyone else should not be separated from Christ. Take the phrase "suffer the little children’ seriously. Agaon, this does not deal with my op…it would not have hurt a thing for the parent to step outside/ to the cryroom for a minute or so to calm the child down. I am not nor did I ever say that the children should not be in Mass. I think when they begin to get out of hand, they should be corrected and if you dont have a cry room, ALL Churches have doors that lead outside. What is a few minutes of standing outside until the child calms down compared to a congregation being able to hear the Mass instead of an hourlong shriek-fest?

If you are upset- don’t think for an instant that the parents of that misbehaving child are not usept as well.Apparently they were totally oblivious. If they were upset, they would have tried to get the situation under control… Parents are obligated to bring their children to church- to Christ- and ultimately to steer them in the direction of Heaven.I agree. But what is the child learning if they are allowed to behave in such a manner at Mass and never taught any better?How is this child supposed to learn? Is the entire congregation to be expected to give up on being able to hear Mass because a parent refuses to discipline or teach the child any better? WE are obligated to help each other, even “annoying” or “distracting” children. Like I said in a previous post, I could HEAR the child, not see them…

*Volunteer to do a children’s “liturgy of the word”- the parents can listen to the readings, the gospels, the homily- then the children can be brought back during the offering/before the Creed. We did have this on this day~the child didnt attend and screamed during the entire homily and a special parayer by Father.

And finally- ASK the poster who no longer feels like she can bring her child to church to please come back! Children learn what they live-children need to be included in church, they need to be familiar with the “culture” of Christ. 18 mo old is still a baby.I took my child at this age to Mass with success. Again, I never said to keep children from Mass, just teach them better was the point I was trying to make!!! I thought ahead and brought small,quiet saint books for dd as well as saint prayer cards attached with an “o” ring… This was not a mere distraction~this was a Mass that was not able to be heard by anyone…Again, I have said before, I know kids will not be silent in Mass, and I dont expect them too. The child didnt just whimper here and there, they were screaming/shreiking the entire time…

The joy and experience of Christ comes from within you-from you asking Him into your heart- asking for the enlightenment, knowledge, and comfort of the Holy Spirit, and of experiencing the love of God in your lives-

If you are waiting to go to church to get those things- then you have it all wrong.I know this, this has nothing to do with the topic. I dont go to Mass just to hang out and forget it as I leave the building, my little family try to live our Catholic faith as best as we can of every minute of ever day. Are we perfect? No, but I dont claim to either.

 

[pnewton]

I’m with you, spanking children is so abusive and needless, especially like you said “she is a tiny little thing”. How’s about an 8 foot giant spanking the ones who suggest spanking!

That is a whole different topic, and you would have to consider who to “nuance” the Biblical directive of spare the rod, spoil the child into oblivion. I just know that as we enlightened Americans drift from spanking children, we raise increasingly selfish, rude and misbehaved children.

I try to never spank my child in public specifically because their are too many people out there that do not understand both basic psychology, and biblical principles and might intervene, thinking the know more about parenting than I.

 

[NancyCNM]

Hmm.

As I recall, I mentioned ALL the posts I had read, and I asked a rhetorical question…Was the OP looking for advice or ???

My post was not directed at only one person or only one post (name removed by moderator)articular, but was a reply to all the posts I had read up until that time. I did not say I read all of the posts. Nor did I accuse any one individual of anything.

I raised the question. Apparantly it was taken personally. Maybe that means some self reflection is in order? Or maybe not. I don’t know.

Like it or not, I believe some basic catechisis might be needed.

Can anyone point out the meaning, the depth and breadth of the word, Charity???

That said, will those needing the Catechisis be open to receiving it?

I too have been annoyed and distracted in church, and I too have had the children who have done the annoying and distracting. Unless and until you have walked in my shoes, step by step, you won’t know all the whys and wherefores.

I am the oldest of 6 children. I personally (with my husband of course) have ELEVEN children. Sometimes they are little ‘angels’, sometimes they are not. I also have 4 grandchildren…So I talk from years and years and years of experience.

So comfort to all you moms and dads out there just starting out. Remind yourselves- good days or bad days- The children do grow up. This too shall pass. The thought will be a relief on the bad days- while you are sweating bullets trying to keep them under control; and will bring you to tears on the good days - when you don’t want the moment to end and can’t believe how much God has blessed you with your dear sweet children!

Others- think to yourselves- especially on the bad days and the days children may be “ruining your” mass, “Thank God”, and really thank Him. Then remind yourself,

“There but for the Grace of God go I !”

Then offer up a prayer for those parents. Even if you want to pray for them to take the child out of church- at least it is a prayer!

It is only by the Grace of God that we are given children. It is the Grace of God that gets us through any given moment. And also remember this- EVERY SINGLE MOMENT- YOU ARE WHERE HE WANTS YOU TO BE He will bring forth greater goodness from any bad or horrible thing that is happening. YOU have to be open to receive it. Talk to Him about it. Tell Him you know this. Thank Him in advance…Be Open. And Pray.

 

[Bullfighter]

First, I am not a parent so the advice I give is through what I have observed during Mass and how some parents have handled loud uncontrollable children.

One set of parent had two boys and they were really bad as far as moving back and forth in the pews, crawling under them, walking up and down the aisles, and talking during Mass.

These parents had the decency to use different pews every Sunday rather than subject the same people to this behavior.

The parents would only allow so much then they would tell the child to be quiet, sit still, etc. They sometimes split up and the mother took one child to one part of the church while the father went with the other child to a different location.

Over the years, one child began to pay attention and behave while the other still had a wild side. But, in time the other settled down. Now, they are both fairly well behaved.

But, as life goes on in our parish, we have another set of parents that are letting their child bellow like Pavarotti at the opera.

Oh, well. If you want to attend a quiet Mass, go during weekdays.

 

[KestrelRose]

It is a good thing when there is a cry-room for families of small children. Parents should avail themselves of this option if it is available.

 

[jmcrae]

Well, call me silly, but I believe there is a grace associated with the seven Sacraments that you do not get by watching Mass on television or “playing Mass”.

But a little rehearsal goes a long way towards being open to those graces, by knowing where you are and what you are doing.

If the child doesn’t even know where he is (and how can he be expected to know what he hasn’t been taught?), how can he receive grace? Grace isn’t some kind of magical substance that lands on everyone who goes to Mass. It is the response of the open heart of the one who comes to Mass to meet Jesus, and encounters Him in the Eucharist.

I also did not say that a child can only be taught at Mass, but to use your firefighter analogy, I do not want a fire fighter that has only be taught from a book without any actual hands on experience.

And I don’t want a fire fighter coming to my house who has never done a staged drill in a controlled environment where he learns ahead of time how to cope with his reactions to various different situations.

Besides, what is the problem? Noise?

No - the problem is kids who think they are at the playground or at the mall, or who think they are entertaining themselves while waiting for their parents to finish doing some kind of mysterious adult thing - who don’t realize that they, too, are there to pray and enter into the mysteries.

Show me where Jesus said Mass had to be quiet and I will show you chapter and verse where he said to bring the little children to Him.

Were the children waiting for their parents, or thinking they were at the playground? No - these were children who knew where they were, and knew who Jesus was - who had asked their parents to bring them to see Jesus.

Everyone makes noise at Mass; it is unavoidable. But the noises that accompany entering into the mysteries (by both adults and children) aren’t nearly as distracting as the noises made by people of any age who disregard or simply just have no idea of where they are, and what they are there to do.

 

[HolleyWilliams]

I was at daily Mass recently where the church was emptier than usual, a child of about 7 was running back and forth through the pews. the floor is marble so every step sounds very loud!

This all happened during the eucharistic prayers. The priest actually stopped (like in school!) what he was doing and we all sat in silence until the child realised his error and desisted!

My daughter is 18 months and has a tendency to the odd ear-splitting outburst during Mass. We have found that sultanas help! And also if she is near other children she is quieter. I can now see she is beginning to copy what we are doing, but at that age their attention span is no more than about 15 minutes so you have to expect some disruption!

 

[Rex_Tremendae]

There is always noisy at Mass at my parish. During the Elevation the babies are louder than the bells. It is very distracting.

 

[RWMorris]

As the parent of four children, the youngest very ADD and hyper, I found that taking my children outside when they were disruptive was a very good thing. It turned out even better when I spanked my son for being disruptive in church. I always felt that I was the adult and my children were supposed to be trained up in the way they should go. Who else was going to discipline them if not for me? I know this isn’t a forum on spanking, but a little smack on the backside is not child abuse. I speak from experience: all my children are wonderful, productive, courteous people today.

 

[jmcrae]

As the parent of four children, the youngest very ADD and hyper, I found that taking my children outside when they were disruptive was a very good thing. It turned out even better when I spanked my son for being disruptive in church. I always felt that I was the adult and my children were supposed to be trained up in the way they should go. Who else was going to discipline them if not for me? I know this isn’t a forum on spanking, but a little smack on the backside is not child abuse. I speak from experience: all my children are wonderful, productive, courteous people today.

Well done.

 

[Bullfighter]

It is a good thing when there is a cry-room for families of small children. Parents should avail themselves of this option if it is available.

I heard that may encourage crying though.

Again, I don’t have children to confirm these things.

I also heard that if you record a child crying and play it back to them, they stop crying. I guess it would hurt to try that at home.

 

[pnewton]

Were the children waiting for their parents, or thinking they were at the playground? No - these were children who knew where they were, and knew who Jesus was - who had asked their parents to bring them to see Jesus.

Okay, so you didn’t answer the first scripture question, let us proceed to round two. In the reference above, where did Jesus in his statement qualify that the attitude and knowledge the children possess was a condition of being welcomed. It seems pretty open-ended and unconditional in a plain reading. And I will still wait to see if anyone else wants to jump in with remark by Jesus on being quiet in Mass.

 

[jmcrae]

Okay, so you didn’t answer the first scripture question, let us proceed to round two. In the reference above, where did Jesus in his statement qualify that the attitude and knowledge the children possess was a condition of being welcomed. It seems pretty open-ended and unconditional in a plain reading. And I will still wait to see if anyone else wants to jump in with remark by Jesus on being quiet in Mass.

He threw the moneychangers out of the Temple because it is a house of prayer. So, no, Jesus does not welcome everyone regardless of their behaviour.

He expects people to come ready to pray. If they are doing something else instead, He throws them out.

 

[jfallaw]

Though I love kids, I must agree with the posters who prefer the Mass to be solemn and free from interruptions. It was so bad today that even the priest got visibly upset- every time he started praying, “Bless us. O Lord…” a child would start shrieking. He stopped, started again, “Bless us, O Lord…” (WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!)! The third time he stopped, he rolled his eyes toward heaven, as if seeking divine guidance, and mumbled something under his breath. And it’s not isolated, it happens all over the Church every Mass, at least four or five young children will act up during the course of things.

Problem is, their parents act like going to the cry room is unfair to them, and so they never do. They refuse to go to the cry room or even discipline the children- most of the parents make absolutely no effort to even silence their children, as if that would be some kind of abuse. I went to a Protestant church for awhile and they actually had a (gasp!) nursery for young children, where church volunteers kept the tiny ones entertained and fed, and the older ones were given Christian education through games, movies, readings, etc., so that the service (which is never ‘quiet’ at a fundamentalist church) is more tolerable, at least. Why can’t there be something like that at Catholic churches? Because honestly, I almost dread Mass now. I can barely hear the priest, and I can never concentrate on the prayers or homily due to all the screaming.

 

[ora_pro_nobis]

To the OP - I hope Mass was a better experience for you today. Did the disruptive child attend? Did you say hello to the parents?

I hope you took Nancy’s latest points on board and don’t feel as if you were being singled out for criticism, we’ve all had our two-penn’orth on this thread, maybe it’s time to let go.

have been reading about Catholic soldiers in the Second World War attending Mass at the battlefront, the altar on the bonnet (hood) of a jeep and heavy artillery going off a few hundred yards away. Now, that WAS extreme disruption during Mass!

 

[pnewton]

He threw the moneychangers out of the Temple because it is a house of prayer. So, no, Jesus does not welcome everyone regardless of their behaviour.

He expects people to come ready to pray. If they are doing something else instead, He throws them out.

Two differences. First, they were not innocent children. Second, if you read the whole passage, not just the house of prayer part, the reason for Jesus’ anger is that they had made it a den of thieves. Those driven out were dishonest business hucksters who made money off the pilgrams and the faithful, not children who cried.