Extreme disruptions during Mass

[wifenmommy]

It was ONE TIME. Who knows what provoked the behavior? A one time event does not make a syndrome.

The parent doesnt have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the child needed to be taken to the cryroom or outside…

 

[ChristIsLord]

It’s funny I remember going to Mass with my son he was good and so well behaved, I was so proud of myself, I would think to myself what great parents we are and subconsciously judge the other parents whose kids were all over the place… (lazy parents how about disciplining your kids…)

Then came Emmy… and my whole worldview changed, and I realized what a prideful fool I had been. I’m not going to strap my daughter so people don’t have to hear her during Mass. She’ll grow out of it, she gets better every year as she can communicate with us more. We can correct her, but the correction would be constant and unceasing and more of a disturbance. It’s moot for us anyway because we don’t take her to Mass because of the “old biddies”, we’ve never had an issue with parents with kids there, the only thing we got from them was typically a sympathetic smile (at least those with more than one kid). That’s why this topic surprised me a bit…

 

[MarieVeronica]

I feel the way you do about this subject.

Sure, bring the children and the infants to Mass. They are, afterall Catholic children and should be exposed to Holy Mass from an early age.

However, before the “age of reason”… 7 years… it should be expected that small children will misbehave. Parents need to be prepared for this… and locate your parish nursery, beforehand. If your parish doesn’t have one… request it. If the child can not maintain adequate quiet, during Mass… then he/she should be taken to the nursery.

It is not fair to the rest of the congregation to have to sit through Mass, when a child or infant is screaming, having a tantrum, “acting up” or creating a massive disruption.

 

[happymommy]

How is it possible to be in the frame of mind to GIVE when a rude parent has their lil darling shriek for an hour…could you focus? How is not being able to hear our Priest accomplishing anything???..pride has NOTHING to do with this conversation…this conversation is about parents who think the whole congregation has to be disrupted so they dont have to discipline their child…

Well, just remember how mad you are right now, when it’s your little darling screaming. Do you want someone talking about your children like this. I think not. If you have never made a mistake with your child in church, then by all means, continue. I’m sure I’ve let them go longer then I should have. We always did take them out. Maybe someone thought my taking them out is wrong. I’ve seen people jump up and out with a baby that’s just making baby noise, not crying. I think you need to relax. It was the first time it has happened, not like they do this every week and it is a FAMILY mass, there are going to be families there other than yours.

 

[happymommy]

It’s funny I remember going to Mass with my son he was good and so well behaved, I was so proud of myself, I would think to myself what great parents we are and subconsciously judge the other parents whose kids were all over the place… (lazy parents how about disciplining your kids…)

Then came Emmy… and my whole worldview changed, and I realized what a prideful fool I had been. I’m not going to strap my daughter so people don’t have to hear her during Mass. She’ll grow out of it, she gets better every year as she can communicate with us more. We can correct her, but the correction would be constant and unceasing and more of a disturbance. It’s moot for us anyway because we don’t take her to Mass because of the “old biddies”, we’ve never had an issue with parents with kids there, the only thing we got from them was typically a sympathetic smile (at least those with more than one kid). That’s why this topic surprised me a bit…

I’m really tired of the old biddie thing, no wonder children have no respect for their elders, look where they are learning it. Some day you will be an old biddie, I hope you are around kinder people!

 

[ChristIsLord]

I’m really tired of the old biddie thing, no wonder children have no respect for their elders, look where they are learning it. Some day you will be an old biddie, I hope you are around kinder people!

I’ll be old, but I certainly won’t be a biddie…

 

[happymommy]

I’ll be old, but I certainly won’t be a biddie…

As long as you are sure of that…

 

[Kathrine]

It is not fair to the rest of the congregation to have to sit through Mass, when a child or infant is screaming, having a tantrum, “acting up” or creating a massive disruption.

These are not meant to be attacks, but food for thought…

Who decides what is fair for the rest of the congregation? The loudest members? How do *you *(plural you) know what is best for the congregation?

Again, people don’t have any clue what is going on in the minds of these parents. We don’t know the situation or circumstances.

Two good analogies here are the mentally or physically handicapped.

Are you going to send a person away because they make outbursts in the middle of Mass? People with mental disabilities, often look very normal… so what if you can’t tell why they’re behaving this way?

What if someone has a physical handicap that makes them jerk uncontrollably, and perhaps they fall to the floor from time to time. Shall we send them away also because you are “distracted”?

Worry less about what others are doing at Mass and focus on what you ought to be focusing on.

Are you ready to make another’s cross heavier because you are inconvenienced?

 

[TurboVW]

BUT YOU sit through a Mass with this child and get back to me, lets see how patient and calm you are at the end…

I wasn’t there, and probabaly 99.9% of the people on this forum as well. If I was there, I may be patient and calm, or not. Then I move on with my Sunday.

So, pardon me for sounding nosy, but what was the aim of original posting? To discuss extreme disruptions at Mass? Or to just whine and moan about a certain noisy Sunday? Like Katherine said: Get over yourself. Mass is for the loud and quiet, sinner and saint. Do you know what was on that mother’s heart when she brought her noisy kid to Mass?

Like my mother and grandmother have always said when I complained: “Just offer it up.”

 

[wifenmommy]

I wasn’t there, and probabaly 99.9% of the people on this forum as well. If I was there, I may be patient and calm, or not. Then I move on with my Sunday.

So, pardon me for sounding nosy, but what was the aim of original posting? To discuss extreme disruptions at Mass? Or to just whine and moan about a certain noisy Sunday? Like Katherine said: Get over yourself. Mass is for the loud and quiet, sinner and saint. Do you know what was on that mother’s heart when she brought her noisy kid to Mass?

Like my mother and grandmother have always said when I complained: “Just offer it up.”

So glad you are so saintly that you would have been able to deal with it…

 

[Joan_M]

My daughter simply doesn’t listen, she is two and will not sit still, she will throw things, make noises etc… The entire Mass without any concern for if we approve or not. Peoples reactions are why we no longer attend Mass as a family because we can’t take our daughter, people just aren’t patient enough. And typically it’s people who are there alone or older people without kids and I wonder why they come to the family Mass only to get upset at the people with small children?

My son was always very good in Church even as a little boy, my daughter is an absolute nightmare in public, and we can’t take her and be comfortable. If you knew my daughter you would know nothing can be done to quell her behavior she will have to simply grow out of it.

Your daughter is two years old and does not obey you at least most of the time? Then you have a real problem.

How, pray, will she “grow out of it” when, from your post, it seems that there are no consequences for bad behavior?

Who’s in charge? It appears to be your daughter. It’s not a question of whether you approve or not. It’s what are you doing about it? Your daughter needs to be corrected - probably needs spanking.

 

[turtle18]

Honestly guys, I think the OP is asking why the parents didn’t take the child to the cry room. There was a cry room available and they did not take the child to it. It is probably because in the cry room, it is so noisy in there, that the parents of the disruptive child wouldn’t be able to hear the Mass.

I do think age & length of disruption matters in these type of issues. No one would begrudge a crying baby (hopefully) but there is a point when it becomes too old for children to act like that, especially all through the Mass.

You can make all sorts of excuses for this behavior. But the bottom line is, there are people in the Church who are hard of hearing and can’t hear over children screaming. Where is the consideration for these people? Have you ever considered if you are getting a look from an “old biddy” it may be because she can’t hear? Old people go deaf. So if one is struggling with losing one’s hearing, it makes it really hard for them. Charity is a TWO way street.

 

[wifenmommy]

Honestly guys, I think the OP is asking why the parents didn’t take the child to the cry room. There was a cry room available and they did not take the child to it. It is probably because in the cry room, it is so noisy in there, that the parents of the disruptive child wouldn’t be able to hear the Mass. YES!! That is it!! That was exactly my point!

I do think age & length of disruption matters in these type of issues. No one would begrudge a crying baby (hopefully) but there is a point when it becomes too old for children to act like that, especially all through the Mass.
Being a mother, a crying baby I most understand! This child was totally out of control!
You can make all sorts of excuses for this behavior. But the bottom line is, there are people in the Church who are hard of hearing and can’t hear over children screaming. Where is the consideration for these people? Have you ever considered if you are getting a look from an “old biddy” it may be because she can’t hear? Old people go deaf. So if one is struggling with losing one’s hearing, it makes it really hard for them. I never thought of that too!! Charity is a TWO way street.YES YES YES!!

 

[Apryl]

I’m sure they kept the children in Mass. Corrected them as much as possible at the time, and then corrected them further at a later time. How do I know? Because my great-grandmother told me and my father told me.

Their response to questions like this is… this is how it’s always been. You take it with stride and offer it up.

Help me out here…

Are you saying that it’s always been noisy, extreme disrutptions during mass, and that is offered up, or are you saying that people have worked with their own children being the disruption, and that was offered up?

 

[TurboVW]

So glad you are so saintly that you would have been able to deal with it…

Oh, if I only was! How I long to have the patience of the saints.

Are you saying that isolated incident was unbearbale and unable to be dealt with? How lucky we are to live in a land and a time where we can publicly go to Mass and not suffer anything other than the sounds of unaborted children.

 

[Apryl]

Hmmm…

Well, since we don’t have huge new churches with cry-rooms and can’t afford to build on additions in many cases, I believe you are in the wrong.

Many non-Catholic faiths are incrediably and overtly friendly for this very reason. Catholics know to focus on Holy Hour, not Happy Hour.

I’ve been to several other churches. In fact, I attended a non-Catholic service on Sunday.

The people in that church were very quiet. I have never been in a non-Catholic church where I felt that it was noisy and disruptive. Maybe the styles of architecture are an influence. I don’t know.

I know that the church was reasonably quiet, and reasonably noisy. I don’t see screaming babies in church in movies or on television.

To say that Catholic churches are non-Child Friendly is unfair.

Care to elaborate why you thougth that was acceptable?

 

[Pax_Vobiscum_57]

Having not waded through the entire 4 pages of this thread, I have 2 questions.

Is it possible the child has an emotional/neurological or other difficulty that may cause her to be hypersensitive to certain stimuli?

Do you know the parents? If not, introduce yourself. I’m sure they feel badly enough that even the priest acknowledged the disruption. Parents of young kids are often frazzled. If you regularly see them at Mass, perhaps bring a small book about the Mass as a gift (with LOTS of pictures).

The thing NOT to do is to make the parents feel worse. I certainly would not want the weight of their avoiding Mass on my shoulders.

I had 2 boys that I took to Mass by myself before my husband reverted. They were 3 & 1 at the time. My oldest was always well behaved, and my youngest was like the Tasmanian Devil. The way he got around Mass was to promptly fall asleep in the pew. I was happy that he was there and he was quiet.

It sounds like you’re trying very hard to not be judgemental, and I commend you for that. Maybe the Holy Spirit is moving in you to help them. How awesome to be an instrument for the Lord!

 

[jmcrae]

We discipline our daughter she simply doesn’t care.

What are you doing; asking her politely, “Please honey, stop the screaming”? Because - yeah - that doesn’t work.

I agree with the person who suggested spanking. I don’t think spanking is appropriate in all situations, or for all kids, but if she is totally disobedient, then she needs to be spanked, and she needs to be made to know that you are the boss; not her.

 

[Appleby]

I don’t think that is very nice and not a very Christian like attitude. Jesus said let the children come to me! Not just the one’s who will sit quietly. I think people should have respect for those around them, but there is no reason to call the child a brat. Sounds to me like it’s the parents fault they act like that not the child. Put blame were it is due.

Children need to learn at an early age that the loud noise IS coming from the child, and not from the parents or Society or whatever other outside force their doting mommies might feel like blaming. My mother attended church with five children all born within 10 years of one another, and so did many other Mothers of Baby Boomers, and we did not have screaming and throwing things and walking on the pews and kicking the people next to the child in those days. And just what exactly is the child learning about Mass when she is screaming and throwing things? She is learning that here is yet another place where she can rampage and nobody will rein her in.

Ask your mother what she did, if you cant remember. Odds are you can in fact remember.

 

[Island_Oak]

My daughter simply doesn’t listen, she is two and will not sit still, she will throw things, make noises etc… The entire Mass without any concern for if we approve or not. And you allow this?!? Pick her up, take her out or go to mass in shifts. Countless numbers of us did this when our kids were the same way. It wasn’t a particular hardship. We don’t judge the toddler or lack understanding of the normal behaviour of children, it’s the thick-headed parents who stand there expecting everyone around them to adapt we don’t get!!

Peoples reactions are why we no longer attend Mass as a family because we can’t take our daughter, people just aren’t patient enough. How self-centered can you possibly get? You are the only people in the church who can address/fix this situation and instead you think it’s fair to subject 300 individuals to your child’s disruptions and then expect to be greeted with a smile? Do you ever consider how much effort it takes the rest of us to get to mass on time and maintain control of our kids? How about the elderly folks who are equally valued as kids in the congregation. Not all of them have the flexibilty to come and go to different masses just to escape the screams of your little tyrant. Why are you entitled to a free pass on taking responsibility for your family?!

My son was always very good in Church even as a little boy, my daughter is an absolute nightmare in public, and we can’t take her and be comfortable. If you knew my daughter you would know nothing can be done to quell her behavior she will have to simply grow out of it. Why should an entire congregation squirm in our seats, plug our ears, and force a smile so you can be comfortable?! I don’t need the excuse, rationalization or timeline. for your kid being out of control Just deal with the problem so the rest of us can do what we came to do: pray and reflect on the mass.
I will add that this DID not happen in the Lutheran Church we attended, people smiled and laughed at her and they had a room where she could be entertained. In the Catholic Church we got the absolute look of death from people. They weren’t smiling, they were grimacing. So the Academy Award goes to the Lutherans.

Did our parents have to put up with stuff like this 20, 30, 40 years ago? When did it become a part of the mass?
Years ago, there was no ‘Mom stay with the baby, and then Dad stay with the baby’, and people attended mass every week.

What changed?

Sure there was. My parents tell stories of attending mass in shifts when there were babies at home. Somewhere along the line people forgot that part of parenting is consideration of others’ needs and maintaining control of their own kids–or failing that–removing them from the situation. Screaming kids in mass are NEVER cute or adorable. At best it’s tolerated…with full recognition that the real misbehaving party is the adult in charge, not the noisy baby/child.

Uhhh forget it, the Catholic Church is overall very un-child friendly. It is strange how considerably more friendly and accomodating the Lutherans are than the Catholics.

It’s really amazing how welcoming all people are to children who are managed appropriately for the situation. Mass is not the same as the zoo, ballpark or playground. Why should any of us pretend otherwise or not elevate our expectation of parents in the mass setting?!

I’ll be old, but I certainly won’t be a biddie…

And your defensiveness and snotty responses throughout this thread make it clear you are carrying a huge chip on your shoulder.

Oh, if I only was! How I long to have the patience of the saints.
Are you saying that isolated incident was unbearbale and unable to be dealt with? How lucky we are to live in a land and a time where we can publicly go to Mass and not suffer anything other than the sounds of unaborted children.

This is such utter nonsense. Expecting ADULTS to manage their own children has NOTHING to do with accepting children willingly, lovingly or being fervently opposed to abortion. Are you honestly suggesting that anyone who expects parents to deal with their kids’ outbursts is wishing the children had never been born or saying they shouldn’t ever be brought to mass?! We are saying parents have a RESPONSIBILITY TO the CONGREGATION which can’t be shrugged off or blamed on a willful child or intolerant “biddies.” Parents: Do your job. If you’re unwilling to do so, at the very least leave the screaming kiddies at home until you can reliably manage their behaviour!