Extreme disruptions during Mass

[jmcrae]

The name of this forum is “Catholic Answers” not “Catholics who talk about people behind their back without giving the accused an opportunity to defend themselves”.

I tried being gentle, but apparently you need something a little more firm. This is gossip, and this thread does nothing except stroke your wounded ego.

By definition gossip is:

• a report (often malicious) about the behavior of other people;
• a person given to gossiping and divulging personal information about others;
• gossip is idle talk or rumor, esp. about the personal or private affairs of others.

No, this isn’t gossip. No names have been mentioned, and no location has been indicated. We have no way of knowing who this person was, so we are certainly not going to start thinking badly of her in an unfair way.

Aside from that, what she did was done in public - one’s behavior at Mass is not a “private affair.” What you do in public, you must expect to have discussed in public. That’s another reason why we should not disgrace ourselves at Mass, and why it is so very important to teach our children not to disgrace themselves at Mass.

 

[Writer]

Uhhh forget it, the Catholic Church is overall very un-child friendly. Most do not have cry rooms, and the people are overall impatient and unfriendly concerning children. This is a major reason why we don’t see people coming to the Mass as a family anymore, you have bits and bites, but not many families anymore, it’s not worth the trouble to bother people who shoot you a look of death because your daughter is being disruptive.

it is strange how considerably more friendly and accomodating the Lutherans are than the Catholics.

Hmmm… Not sure where to start on this one. We have attended multiple Catholic Churches (as well as Lutheran) around the country, and I think I have only attended one in the Seattle area years ago which struck me as borderline unfriendly to children. I’d suggest you’re likely generalizing a bit unjustly here.

As to the main issue of the thread, I agree that this is borderline gossip. If the behavior bothers you that much, perhaps you can find a non-confrontational way to broach the issue with the parent? In other words, go to the source of the problem. I would only suggest this, however, if it continues and if the priest does not try to address it in some way.

 

[Kathrine]

No, this isn’t gossip. No names have been mentioned, and no location has been indicated. We have no way of knowing who this person was, so we are certainly not going to start thinking badly of her in an unfair way.

Aside from that, what she did was done in public - one’s behavior at Mass is not a “private affair.” What you do in public, you must expect to have discussed in public. That’s another reason why we should not disgrace ourselves at Mass, and why it is so very important to teach our children not to disgrace themselves at Mass.

The definition of gossip does not say that location and person must be disclosed. Is it gossip if a long time friend of yours comes into town and then proceeds to bad mouth someone to you the entire night? Whether or not you know this person?

It is still gossip.

Behavior at Mass is not a private affair. But this is something you would bring to the offending party, not to a bunch of strangers on the internet.

 

[jmcrae]

The definition of gossip does not say that location and person must be disclosed. Is it gossip if a long time friend of yours comes into town and then proceeds to bad mouth someone to you the entire night? Whether or not you know this person?

It is still gossip.

Behavior at Mass is not a private affair. But this is something you would bring to the offending party, not to a bunch of strangers on the internet.

Okay - you have finally caught up to the beginning of this thread.

The question was, how should she deal with this problem?

 

[wifenmommy]

We are entitled to have a DISCUSSION regarding the goings on of Mass~this is not gossip, if that was the case, there would be many less threads…

I am so glad you are so patient and kind that you can tolerate being at a Mass and not being able to hear the Priest speak. I stated this thread to seek the opinions of fellow CAFers. You, my dear, are going to have a long hard road ahead of you here if you continue with your saintly holier than thou attitiude. Wrong is wrong~and simply put a parent is wrong if they dont correct their child. Failing to discipline you child is a serious issue, sorry you dont see it that way. I take my God given vocation as a parent very seriously, that means teaching my chiold how to behave in Mass.

 

[Kathrine]

And I’ve answered several times! She then got fairly snippy with the people (not me personally) who didn’t hold the same opinion as her. This lead me to believe that this wasn’t about “How she should deal with it” and more of a “Woe is me”.

Wifenmommy -

I’ve been on this forum since March of 2007 and decided to make a new name that was more appropriate. I’m telling you, since you want to attack my post count. (Very mature by the way)

It has taken a lot of time and many graces to get to where I am, but if that threatens you… there’s nothing I can do.

 

[KestrelRose]

Here is an idea. Help with the child. Create a package of interesting items (felt creations, crayons and religious coloring books etc.) Sit next to the family a offer to help. Become a friend and try to understand what would be useful and servicable for the family.

Then, go to another Mass later in the day in order to be able to participate more fully.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Anyone remember at what age Mom started giving the upper arm pinch or ear twist?

 

[ChristIsLord]

If it was just a venting thread state that, because you jumped on anyone who tried to offer reasons for the parents not immediately attending to the child. Maybe they were in the middle of the pew and didn’t want to disturb people, maybe they gave the child change to entertain him/her,maybe it was an isolated incident, maybe you’re exaggerating a little about it???

You came here to vent and just leave it at that, and it is definitely gossip. And if your child is such an Angel just take her to a later Mass if it’s so disruptive I don’t get the hubub, kids shriek at family mass, I can’t hear a thing at family mass and simply accept that.

 

[wifenmommy]

And I’ve answered several times! She then got fairly snippy with the people (not me personally) who didn’t hold the same opinion as her. If I have it was only to defend myself… This lead me to believe that this wasn’t about “How she should deal with it” and more of a “Woe is me”.I guess you never need to vent or would like to discuss something that bothers you…

By the way, I’ve been on this forum since March of 2007 and decided to make a new name that was more appropriate. I’m telling you, since you want to attack my post count. (Very mature by the way) :shrug:Who is being snippy/rude now?

It has taken a lot of time and many graces to get to where I am, but if that threatens you… there’s nothing I can do.You dont know me or my life story so dont go there. You cant threaten me honey, no way no how. Lets just act a little less snooty and holier than thou shall we???

 

[wifenmommy]

Here is an idea. Help with the child. Create a package of interesting items (felt creations, crayons and religious coloring books etc.) Sit next to the family a offer to help. Become a friend and try to understand what would be useful and servicable for the family.

Then, go to another Mass later in the day in order to be able to participate more fully.

We couldnt see the child, hear them ~yes, see them nope. This is the last Mass for our parish for the weekend. It is a shame to not attend the family Mass as a family because a parent doesnt tend to their child…

 

[Eris]

Well, at the risk of sounding like an “old biddy” or being accused of being snippy, rude, gossipy, child-hating, or any of the other accusations flying in this thread, the OP is about extreme behavior from a child. And when my child was a toddler and had a meltdown - in the store, at Mass, or in any public setting - I would gather her up (calmly) and leave. Period. She learned that this was not appropriate behavior (public or private). I wouldn’t subject anyone to her meltdowns, because that’s not appropriate behavior for a parent. You don’t have to yell at the child, spank, or do anything outrageous. You just remove them from the situation. If they are acting out, they are unable to deal with whatever is going on around them - so you take them out of that environment. I didn’t leave Mass forever; I didn’t have to. Children aren’t stupid - they learn how to manipulate things very quickly. So my toddler was not rewarded for her behavior - we didn’t leave and go do something more fun. She learned that it wasn’t going to get her anywhere! And she learned to behave, in very short order. So in response to the OP, one meltdown, give the parents a break. If it becomes a pattern, then the parents are the ones with the problem - they don’t know how to handle that behavior. Some kind advice would be in order. Chances are they don’t even realize it’s a problem. But the idea that it’s rude to even suggest to the parents that they find another way to deal with the child in question is stunning to me. To suggest that some people are “biddies” or “mean” or “snippy” or “gossiping” is astounding. To expect people to simply turn their heads and ignore that this child is having a huge meltdown is amazing. This is “tolerance” gone astray. You don’t allow animal behavior - children have to be taught how to be civilized. It’s not innate. And it’s not asking too much to want a parent to remove a child who is extremely out of control from the situation that the child is obviously unable to deal with. That’s just kindness to the child - if a child is that distressed that he/she is out of control, you as a parent have the obligation to be in control. Children need to know that someone is able to handle things. Any dime-store psychologist can tell you that kids need limits.

for what it’s worth…

 

[Kathrine]

No, I do not vent like this. I don’t even vent like this in the “real world”. This parted from being a “discussion” back in the 2nd or 3rd page.

Also, stating that attacking someone’s post count is immature is not being snippy, it’s a fact.

Some kind advice would be in order. Chances are they don’t even realize it’s a problem. But the idea that it’s rude to even suggest to the parents that they find another way to deal with the child in question is stunning to me. To suggest that some people are “biddies” or “mean” or “snippy” or “gossiping” is astounding. To expect people to simply turn their heads and ignore that this child is having a huge meltdown is amazing.

I don’t think anyone has suggested that it would be rude to bring it to the attention of the parents. In fact, bringing it to the attention of the parent has been the consensus of this thread.

 

[wifenmommy]

If it was just a venting thread state that, because you jumped on anyone who tried to offer reasons for the parents not immediately attending to the child. Maybe they were in the middle of the pew and didn’t want to disturb people, maybe they gave the child change to entertain him/her,maybe it was an isolated incident, maybe you’re exaggerating a little about it???

You came here to vent and just leave it at that, and it is definitely gossip. And if your child is such an Angel just take her to a later MassI have done my job as as GOOD parent and taught my dd how to behave in Mass. Dont be snotty about how have taught my child to be respectful while she is in our Lords house… if it’s so disruptive I don’t get the hubub, kids shriek at family mass, I can’t hear a thing at family mass and simply accept that.

I know full well that family Masses are not silent and I dont expect them to be. I am not exagerating as the child shrieked and screamed for an hour straight.

 

[wifenmommy]

No, I do not vent like this. I don’t even vent like this in the “real world”. This parted from being a “discussion” back in the 2nd or 3rd page.It stopped being a discussion when holier than thou types chimed in…

Also, stating that attacking someone’s post count is immature is not being snippy, it’s a fact.

So I made a mistake on that one~sue me, i suppose YOU have never made them…

I am glad that you have never had anything happen in your life that you would need to vent. I am glad you are so saintly that you would not vent in the same manner as the rest of us humans.

 

[ChristIsLord]

I have done my job as as GOOD parent and taught my dd how to behave in Mass. Dont be snotty about how have taught my child to be respectful while she is in our Lords house…

I know full well that family Masses are not silent and I dont expect them to be. I am not exagerating as the child shrieked and screamed for an hour straight.

So now you are stating that any child who doesn’t meet your standards of behavior during Mass have bad parents? If this kid is between 1-2.5, there’s really not that much you can do to change behavior. If they’re 3+ then O.K. some things will work.

Maybe you’ve been blessed with not strong willed children? Children are typically hard wired as to the personality they will have, I pray you get yourself a strong willed, hyperactive kid with a stubborn will of their own on the next one, you do need a little humility in this area frankly because you seem to turn your nose down and judge people harshly on thier parenting skills based on a very small toddler having a fit.

I have two kids both raised the same way, my son is the nicest most respectful kid you will meet, always good at the Mass etc… My daughter just turned two and is still a little terror and ton of personality. Will she get away with stuff at 5 that she does now? Of course not, but the alternatives I’ve heard, smacking, punishments etc… are so absurd to be done to a two year old.

 

[Dicerning]

Anyone remember at what age Mom started giving the upper arm pinch or ear twist?

I tried that once My daughter cried out " OWWWWWIIEEE your hurting meeeeee!!" right there in mass…

Boy was embarassed.

 

[jmcrae]

So now you are stating that any child who doesn’t meet your standards of behavior during Mass have bad parents? If this kid is between 1-2.5, there’s really not that much you can do to change behavior.

So you just sit there and let them do it? No, you take them out and deal with whatever the problem is.

If they have a need, then you meet the need; you don’t let the kid sit there and scream for an hour straight if they are hungry, wet, or uncomfortable; that’s probably a form of child abuse.

And if they are old enough to act up for no good reason, then they are old enough to be taken outside and punished for it.

 

[Kathrine]

It is called self control and everyone is capable of it. You choose to exercise it or not.

By the way those “holier then thou” people, weren’t being holier then thou, they were just “discussing” different perspectives that you don’t seem to agree with.

Though I can’t say I appreciate the implication that I’m perfect. I’ve never claimed to be.

 

[wifenmommy]

So now you are stating that any child who doesn’t meet your standards of behavior during Mass have bad parents? If this kid is between 1-2.5, there’s really not that much you can do to change behavior. If they’re 3+ then O.K. some things will work.

Maybe you’ve been blessed with not strong willed children?Ha! that is the type of child I DO have. I worked hard at being a good parent and teaching her. This wasnt handed to me… Children are typically hard wired as to the personality they will have, I pray you get yourself a strong willed, hyperactive kid with a stubborn will of their own on Got one. If the good Lord would bless me with more, I would step up to the plate again and be a good parent. being a good parent doesnt mean that you let your child behave as they like…the next one, you do need a little humility in this area frankly because you seem to turn your nsoe down and judge people harshly based on a very small toddler having a fit.I fit I could handle with no problem, this was a full blown shriek fest for an hour.