Extreme poverty needs to be eradicated from the face of the planet!

[Didascalia]

Confiscating money from one group and giving it to another is not “charity”. It’s theft.

Giving to the poor via tax is theft…mmmm…? Lets see, what did our Lord say about taxes…‘Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.’ Seems that Christ thinks you should pay em and shut up about it!

What then did he say about giving to the poor?

The Sheep and the Goats

"But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will tell those on his right hand, ‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.’
"Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?’
"The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Then he will say also to those on the left hand, **‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me in; naked, and you didn’t clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ **
"Then they will also answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn’t help you?’
“Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’ **These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” **
Matthew 25:31-46
As you can see Deus tecum, refusing the poor is refusing Christ. Are you a Sheep or a Goat?

 

[Didascalia]

Catholic banks, Jewish banks, whatever…

I think banks should be nationalised and the profits diverted to public health, education, transport and yes a percentage would go to third world development!..this of course makes me a communist in the eyes of Americans who still live in the 50’s. Most of the poster on this thread make Donald Trump look like a liberal!

 

[Didascalia]

And the old USSR did not treat its poor and dispossessed kindly (at least 20 million killed under Stalin)? Does Cuba treat its poor and dispossessed kindly? Did Nazi Germany treat its poor and dispossessed kindly (12 million killed)? Does communist China and North Korea treat their poor and dispossessed kindly? :confused

I’m not talking about communist regimes or forwarding the idea that we use communism to “cure” poverty. I’m not a communist. I’v only been accused as being one in a style very akin to McCarthyism, because Americans live under the ideal that its a bad thing to alleviate poverty through taxes.Christ tells us to pay our taxes, even to a regime that maybe abhorrent and corrupt to the core! " Give unto Ceasar…" He tells us repeatedly give, give, give, and that to deny a needy person is to deny the body of Christ himself!

 

[Timothysis]

I’m not sure what you mean by this comment, but you should really take more care in speaking and clarifying your posts, my friend.

I will post as I see fit, thank you very much.

 

[St_Francis]

I’m not talking about communist regimes or forwarding the idea that we use communism to “cure” poverty. I’m not a communist. I’v only been accused as being one in a style very akin to McCarthyism, because Americans live under the ideal that its a bad thing to alleviate poverty through taxes.Christ tells us to pay our taxes, even to a regime that maybe abhorrent and corrupt to the core! " Give unto Ceasar…" He tells us repeatedly give, give, give, and that to deny a needy person is to deny the body of Christ himself!

One of the major reasons many Americans–where are you from, btw?–are against the welfare system *as practiced in the US *is that 1. less than 30% of the moneys allocated from the poor actually reach the poor. 73% goes to what would be called adminstative costs in a charity. 2. The structure of the system is such that it keeps people in poverty/dependency. 3. The system is set up so those who are receiving aid have a much better lifestyle than do those at the economic scale just above eligibility for aid.

Additionally, the welfare system is so centralized and so frequently involves unfunded mandates and funded routes for fraud (schools getting MediCaid funds for dxed students, etc).

As a result, people perceive the system as enabling, helping people to live bad lifestyles rather than helping them rise out of poverty; as a means of social control, as a means of biying votes which involves taxpayer money, etc.

Personally, I would prefer a different system myself. This does not mean that I lack charity, only that I do not think our current system does what the average American would like it to, which is to actually help the poor.

 

[tabycat]

I’m not talking about communist regimes or forwarding the idea that we use communism to “cure” poverty. I’m not a communist. I’v only been accused as being one in a style very akin to McCarthyism, because Americans live under the ideal that its a bad thing to alleviate poverty through taxes.Christ tells us to pay our taxes, even to a regime that maybe abhorrent and corrupt to the core! " Give unto Ceasar…" He tells us repeatedly give, give, give, and that to deny a needy person is to deny the body of Christ himself!

Thank you for telling me that the Nazis and Hitler were communists and that I am akin to McCarthy because I did not know that the Nazis and the Communists were nicer to their people then we are. Oh, by the way, I have relatives on my Dad’s side, that were under both. That is reason why I call it stealing when the government, any government, takes all of a person, say Bill Gates, to give it to those who are ‘poor’.

 

[St_Francis]

I’m not talking about communist regimes or forwarding the idea that we use communism to “cure” poverty. I’m not a communist. I’v only been accused as being one in a style very akin to McCarthyism, because Americans live under the ideal that its a bad thing to alleviate poverty through taxes.

“Americans” (over half of whom seem perfectly happy to expand the welfare state…) aren’t the only ones who disagree.

From Centisimus Annus:
In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called “Welfare State”. This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the “Social Assistance State”. Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.100

By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending. In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them and who act as neighbours to those in need. It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need. One thinks of the condition of refugees, immigrants, the elderly, the sick, and all those in circumstances which call for assistance, such as drug abusers: all these people can be helped effectively only by those who offer them genuine fraternal support, in addition to the necessary care.

Christ tells us to pay our taxes, even to a regime that maybe abhorrent and corrupt to the core! " Give unto Ceasar…" He tells us repeatedly give, give, give, and that to deny a **needy **person is to deny the body of Christ himself!

I think that Christ wanted us to *help *the *poor, *don’t you? Do you think He included the not-poor in that? Do you think He wanted us to hurt the poor?

There are millions of Americans who believe they do not have to help the poor because there are government programs to help the poor. Their hearts are not moved when they see people in need, because they “gave at the office.”

Arguments against welfare-statism and universal coverage of life’s necessities are not helpful to all the poor. Indiscriminate handing out of money does not help all the poor, is insufficient for some of those in need, and is actually harmful to other recipients.

The whole point of being Catholic is to voluntarily give of oneself to help those in need. It is *not *to get the government to forcibly take money, to keep 73% of that money, and to hand out the 27% indiscriminately. The point of being Catholic is to understand that we are made to reach for Heaven and to help others to reach Heaven, that we are to give what others *need, *not just money, but jobs, friendship, help with job and life skills, comapnionship in old age… so much more than spending one’s time trying to get crooked politicians to force more money away from us so we have even less time to actually help.

 

[Abu]

In the Encyclical Letter Laborem Exercens (Human Work), 1981, #26, the acknowledged St John Paul II, pointed out:

“*In his parables on the Kingdom *of God Jesus Christ constantly refers to human work: that of the shepherd57, the farmer58, the doctor59, the sower60, the householder61, the servant62, the steward63, the fisherman64, the merchant65, the labourer66. He also speaks of the various form of women’s work67. He compares the apostolate to the manual work of harvesters68 or fishermen69. He refers to the work of scholars too70."

‘This teaching of Christ on work, based on the example of his life during his years in Nazareth, finds a particularly lively echo in the teaching of the Apostle Paul. Paul boasts of working at his trade (he was probably a tent-maker)71, and thanks to that work he was able even as an Apostle to earn his own bread72. "With toil and labour we worked night and day, that we might not burden any of you"73. Hence his instructions, in the form of exhortation and command, on the subject of work: “Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work in quietness and to earn their own living”, he writes to the Thessalonians74. In fact, noting that some "are living in idleness … not doing any work"75, the Apostle does not hesitate to say in the same context: **“If any one will not work, let him not eat”**76. In another passage he encourages his readers: "Whatever your task, work heartly, as serving the Lord and not men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward"77’.

‘The teachings of the Apostle of the Gentiles obviously have key importance for the morality and spirituality of human work. They are an important complement to the great though discreet gospel of work that we find in the life and parables of Christ, in what Jesus "did and taught"78.’
[Bold added].

Thus is the utter foolishness of the anti Christian ideas of Robert Sock and cronies demolished by the Vicar of Christ referring us to the Parables of Jesus and the Apostle Paul – that “People refusing to work would be guaranteed a roof over their heads, free food and a computer for self-help classes, but would be denied ‘luxuries.’ ”

 

[livingwordunity]

Perhaps we can start with the super rich liberal elites giving away every cent that they have.

 

[meltzerboy]

Perhaps we can start with the super rich liberal elites giving away every cent that they have.

And the super-rich conservative elite as well.

 

[Didascalia]

And the super-rich conservative elite as well.

 

[Country_Gal]

I will post as I see fit, thank you very much.

I take it then, you do think that it best to purge society of Jews?

 

[meltzerboy]

I take it then, you do think that it best to purge society of Jews?

Timothy’s comment was in response to my own: “Jewish banks, Catholic banks, whatever…” He meant (I believe) that maybe Catholic banks should now be under siege in the same way that Jews and their property were during the Nazi era. More precisely, he was inferring there are no Catholic banks to purge. He was NOT advocating the extermination of Jews.

 

[Country_Gal]

Timothy’s comment was in response to my own: “Jewish banks, Catholic banks, whatever…” He meant (I believe) that maybe Catholic banks should now be under siege in the same way that Jews and their property were during the Nazi era. More precisely, he was inferring there are no Catholic banks to purge. He was NOT advocating the extermination of Jews.

Thanks. I was disconcerted by his post!

 

[Robert_Sock]

In the Encyclical Letter Laborem Exercens (Human Work), 1981, #26, the acknowledged St John Paul II, pointed out:

“*In his parables on the Kingdom *of God Jesus Christ constantly refers to human work: that of the shepherd57, the farmer58, the doctor59, the sower60, the householder61, the servant62, the steward63, the fisherman64, the merchant65, the labourer66. He also speaks of the various form of women’s work67. He compares the apostolate to the manual work of harvesters68 or fishermen69. He refers to the work of scholars too70."

‘This teaching of Christ on work, based on the example of his life during his years in Nazareth, finds a particularly lively echo in the teaching of the Apostle Paul. Paul boasts of working at his trade (he was probably a tent-maker)71, and thanks to that work he was able even as an Apostle to earn his own bread72. "With toil and labour we worked night and day, that we might not burden any of you"73. Hence his instructions, in the form of exhortation and command, on the subject of work: “Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work in quietness and to earn their own living”, he writes to the Thessalonians74. In fact, noting that some "are living in idleness … not doing any work"75, the Apostle does not hesitate to say in the same context: **“If any one will not work, let him not eat”**76. In another passage he encourages his readers: "Whatever your task, work heartly, as serving the Lord and not men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward"77’.

‘The teachings of the Apostle of the Gentiles obviously have key importance for the morality and spirituality of human work. They are an important complement to the great though discreet gospel of work that we find in the life and parables of Christ, in what Jesus "did and taught"78.’
[Bold added].

Thus is the utter foolishness of the anti Christian ideas of Robert Sock and cronies demolished by the Vicar of Christ referring us to the Parables of Jesus and the Apostle Paul – that “People refusing to work would be guaranteed a roof over their heads, free food and a computer for self-help classes, but would be denied ‘luxuries.’ ”

You’re perverting the truth to fit to your own liking! “Love your neighbor as yourself” is a commandment of Christ, and it is expected to be followed. Neither St Paul, nor those in the Vatican, advocate our sitting back and watching the poor starve to death, even if they are unwilling to work. What you’re inferring is in sharp contrast to Christian virtues!

 

[Abu]

Robert Sock #72
Neither St Paul, nor those in the Vatican, advocate our sitting back and watching the poor starve to death, even if they are unwilling to work. What you’re inferring is in sharp contrast to Christian virtues!

Why keep being mired in a fallacy, instead of recognizing the fact that free enterprise has been developed by the Catholic Late Scholastics? Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI’s affirmation: “Society does not have to protect itself from the market, as if the development of the latter were ipso facto to entail the death of authentically human relations…Therefore it is not the instrument that must be called to account, but individuals, their moral conscience and their personal and social responsibility.” (Caritas et Veritate, Pope Benedict XVI, 2009, #36).

The essential reference here is the understanding of free enterprise economics which arose with the Catholic Late Scholastics and is so substantially supported by the great acknowledged St John Paul II, and by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

“Capitalism” is a derogatory term coined by Karl Marx, and that’s perhaps why Bl John Paul II dislikes it, as he makes clear as he affirms free enterprise in Centesimus Annus, 1991:
CA 42. ‘If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”.‘CA 43. The Church has no models to present;’

On the developed success of acquiring wealth legitimately, the revered Fr James V Schall, S.J., emphasises:
“But this success was not primarily an exploitation or an injustice. It consisted in learning new ways of production and distribution that depended on intelligence, enterprise, and work, methods that did not in principle take away anything from anyone. These new methods proceeded from what exists, through the most basic of human resources, human knowledge and skill, to fashion new wealth. This approach was the real key to helping the poor, a key that often seemed to be understood everywhere better than in the Church.”
Does Catholicism Still Exist, p 176-177]

From Caritas in Veritate we see the core of the Pope Emeritus Benedict’s “redistributist” large-scale meaning: it is through training, entrepreneurship, work and supplying, at competitive prices through trade, what others need in other countries. Additionally we see the importance of sound management – often neglected today.

These confused and misled posters persist in denying what Jesus Himself, the great St Paul, the great Catholic Scholastics, the great Popes and Holy Mother Church mandate as true and good. It is high time to get real.

 

[Rosebud77]

Nothing I can do re politics or anyone elses behaviour - so I avoid judging others, be they either poor or rich,

What I can do is avoid also luxury, live very simply and give all I can to help others, being careful to avoid also the big charities where folk take big salaries etc.

That is my responsibility and I take it very seriously indeed

 

[Robert_Sock]

Why keep being mired in a fallacy, instead of recognizing the fact that free enterprise has been developed by the Catholic Late Scholastics? Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI’s affirmation: “Society does not have to protect itself from the market, as if the development of the latter were ipso facto to entail the death of authentically human relations…Therefore it is not the instrument that must be called to account, but individuals, their moral conscience and their personal and social responsibility.” (Caritas et Veritate, Pope Benedict XVI, 2009, #36).

The essential reference here is the understanding of free enterprise economics which arose with the Catholic Late Scholastics and is so substantially supported by the great acknowledged St John Paul II, and by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

“Capitalism” is a derogatory term coined by Karl Marx, and that’s perhaps why Bl John Paul II dislikes it, as he makes clear as he affirms free enterprise in Centesimus Annus, 1991:
CA 42. ‘If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”.‘CA 43. The Church has no models to present;’

On the developed success of acquiring wealth legitimately, the revered Fr James V Schall, S.J., emphasises:
“But this success was not primarily an exploitation or an injustice. It consisted in learning new ways of production and distribution that depended on intelligence, enterprise, and work, methods that did not in principle take away anything from anyone. These new methods proceeded from what exists, through the most basic of human resources, human knowledge and skill, to fashion new wealth. This approach was the real key to helping the poor, a key that often seemed to be understood everywhere better than in the Church.”
Does Catholicism Still Exist, p 176-177]

From Caritas in Veritate we see the core of the Pope Emeritus Benedict’s “redistributist” large-scale meaning: it is through training, entrepreneurship, work and supplying, at competitive prices through trade, what others need in other countries. Additionally we see the importance of sound management – often neglected today.

These confused and misled posters persist in denying what Jesus Himself, the great St Paul, the great Catholic Scholastics, the great Popes and Holy Mother Church mandate as true and good. It is high time to get real.

If you reread my original post, you will see that I’m not against a free market; everything I say is available within capitalism.

Why are you ignoring Christ’s second commandment? What does it mean to you? Does it mean we should love those who refuse to work but sit back and literally watch them starve to death?

 

[Robert_Sock]

LOVE, not greed!

 

[Abu]

Robert Sock #75
Why are you ignoring Christ’s second commandment? What does it mean to you? Does it mean we should love those who refuse to work but sit back and literally watch them starve to death?

It really is quite pathetic how narrow-minded some are, choosing to ignore this teaching of Christ on work, the specific words of Christ that find a particularly lively echo in the teaching of the Apostle Paul. The imposters feel that they are better than the great St Paul who emphasises:
Noting that some "are living in idleness … not doing any work"75, the Apostle does not hesitate to say in the same context: **“If any one will not work, let him not eat”**76.
Notes:
75. 2 Thess 3:11.
76. 2 Thess 3:10.

Christ’s mandate to “love” does not mean mollycoddling those who refuse to act like human beings, instead behaving more like animals, as the great St Paul understands clearly.

Caricaturing Christ, St Paul and the Church to suit some nefarious end helps no one.