Fabricated confession?!

[EasterJoy]

This is a most grave situation for you both. It is grave for him as he has insulted God’s time and mercy and has asked for the Sacrament without the proper dispositions towards its worthy reception.

Of more urgency is the fact that now the situation has become most serious for you under canon law, that is of course if you are a fellow Catholic. Not only are the Priests bound by the seal of the Confessional but it is stated that anyone who gains knowledge of a confession is also obligated to preserve secrecy (Code of Canon Law, No. 983.2). For such a person to violate the secrecy of another person’s confession is a mortal sin and warrants “a just penalty, not excluding excommunication” (No. 1388.2).

If I was you, I would worry about the fact that you have revealed the contents of anothers Confession regardless of the penitent’s authenticity and seek the Confessional yourself asap.

A good rule of thumb for us all is to never discuss our Confessions with anyone not even one’s spouse.

The catechism only speaks of the sacramental seal applying to the confessor, which it mentions twice (CCC 1467, 2490). If canon law was meant to apply to accounts of a confession coming directly from the penitent, and not violations of the seal committed by cooperating in a violation by a priest, or by eavesdropping, that seems a rather large omission, don’t you think? Besides, is it possible that you could tell your wife you had had an affair, but that it would be gravely immoral to tell her you had been to confession to repent from it? Surely a penitent may tell others what he said in his own confession without incurring the mortal sin of violating the seal, then. (I’m not saying it is a good idea to repeat the specifics of one’s own confessions or to relay exactly what a confessor told you, mind you.)

He says he asked a friend who had confessed something similar (for real!) and the friend said he got a very similar penance from a DIFFERENT priest in a different parish…

My friend is a little down on the Catholic faith at the moment, feeling like it won’t protect marriage and family if this is the kind of response he should be getting!

Having said that: as has been pointed out, this is hearsay, from someone who admits to a willingness to lie about the sacrament, and hearsay evidence against which the priest may not be able to defend himself without violating the seal. Including the story about the other guy makes it seem clear that his intent, and not just the effect, is detraction against priests in general and one priest in particular, at the very least, if not calumny.

At any rate, if someone tells you something like that, the only thing to do is to turn him around and tell him to go back to the same confessor to talk about it. It is none of your business.

 

[TVFL]

. Including the story about the other guy makes it seem clear that his intent, and not just the effect, is detraction against priests in general and one priest in particular, at the very least, if not calumny.

At any rate, if someone tells you something like that, the only thing to do is to turn him around and tell him to go back to the same confessor to talk about it. It is none of your business.

Thank you for one of the better answers given so far. His intention as he stated it was to find out “if the Church protects its Sacraments (marriage)”. I can see where it comes across as defaming priests, but I think he was actually quite shocked at the answer. I am too. As my friend said, how many people are thinking their marriages are great and they’re really not? He feels like giving absolution for something so potentially damaging (emotionally and physically in the form of STD’s) is contrary to the Church’s stance on the sanctity of marriage.

It definitely was NOT my intention to defame anyone. I was wondering if I should ask the Bishop about this, but there may be no point if the priest can’t defend himself…but…what if my friend confessed his deception to the Bishop himself? Would the original confessor still be bound by the seal?

Incidentally, I DID tell him to go back to the SAME confessor and make it right…and didn’t he make it my business by telling me about it? He asked me to find out if this was “standard”…I guess I probably won’t get that answer unless anyone wants to give away their own experiences…hadn’t thought about that, but I see why that probably won’t/shouldn’t happen…

 

[LilyM]

Thank you for one of the better answers given so far. His intention as he stated it was to find out “if the Church protects its Sacraments (marriage)”. I can see where it comes across as defaming priests, but I think he was actually quite shocked at the answer. I am too. As my friend said, how many people are thinking their marriages are great and they’re really not? He feels like giving absolution for something so potentially damaging (emotionally and physically in the form of STD’s) is contrary to the Church’s stance on the sanctity of marriage.

It definitely was NOT my intention to defame anyone. I was wondering if I should ask the Bishop about this, but there may be no point if the priest can’t defend himself…but…what if my friend confessed his deception to the Bishop himself? Would the original confessor still be bound by the seal?

Incidentally, I DID tell him to go back to the SAME confessor and make it right…and didn’t he make it my business by telling me about it? He asked me to find out if this was “standard”…I guess I probably won’t get that answer unless anyone wants to give away their own experiences…hadn’t thought about that, but I see why that probably won’t/shouldn’t happen…

Yes the original confessor would still be bound by the seal, which is absolute - he cannot reveal the contents of the confession to any third party, even if ‘invited’ by the penitent to do so.

As for the priest not requiring the person to tell his wife - think about it for a second. If the priest tells the penitent that they must tell their wife/the police/victim of their sins, as a condition of absolution or a penance, it’s requiring that person to make their confession and their sin public.

The seal of the confessional is designed to protect the privacy of the sinner, since the confession ultimately is to GOD and not to the priest or any other person, and the purpose of it is to receive God’s absolution, so it’s not the priest’s right to make this sort of use of the information imparted in the confessional.

In effect to require a penitent to ‘give themselves up’ in any way is a breach of the seal of confession in exactly the same way as if the priest HIMSELF told the wife/police/victim, which we know that he cannot do under any circumstances.

As for advising the penitent to tell their spouse? Highy questionable at best. The priest is probably not qualified as a marriage counsellor, and if not it’s not his job to advise on whether it’s appropriate to tell or not. 99.9% of marriage counsellors will tell you, correctly, that it is NOT necessarily appropriate to tell a spouse of infidelity in all circumstances.

And even if appropriate, the unfaithful spouse will need to carefully consider HOW they are going to do so, in such a way that minmum harm possible occurs to the spouse whom they are telling of their infidelity. It’s not something to just rush into and do in any old fashion, and I’m sure most priests appreciate that fact too.

 

[TVFL]

Thank you! This is an excellent explanation.

What happened to self-flagellation as penance? Public humiliation? (just kidding of course…well…mostly…)

I welcome any further clarity…I will pass this info on to my friend and update this post shortly.

 

[madeup_nickname]

Usually the priest will only urge you to confess your sin to others if that will help mend the damage done by the sin. Example:

I tell a lie about someone else. I feel bad, go to confession. The priest absolves me, gives me penance, and advises me to go tell the truth to the person to whom I lied, thus preventing further damage to the defamed person’s reputation and in a sense “undoing” the original lie.

With sexual sin, especially infidelity, confessing to the spouse won’t undo the deed. That might be why confessors less often urge penitents to tell their spouses.

Just a guess.

As for why the penances are so light, I don’t really know. But in my experience, 15 minutes of prayer is pretty stiff compared to the usual. Usually it’s 3 hail Mary’s or a Hail Holy Queen, or once a whole rosary, but that the most severe one I’ve ever received.

Good luck dealing with this friend - I hope he goes back to the priest and tells the truth of what he’s done and why - then maybe the priest can really help him!

 

[Jennifer_G]

i’ve recently learned that a friend of mine made up a WHOPPER of a false confession (DETAILS about sexual escapades that never happened). He did it to “test” whether he would be given absolution (he was), what the penance would be and whether it would include telling his wife. It did not–his penance was 15 minutes of prayer in the tabernacle. No suggestion of counseling, no confession to the wife…and this AFTER he said he would do it again.

Obviously, he needs to go back and confess to the lying! That said…does anyone know if this is the “norm” for absolution/penance for such grave sins? He says he asked a friend who had confessed something similar (for real!) and the friend said he got a very similar penance from a DIFFERENT priest in a different parish…

My friend is a little down on the Catholic faith at the moment, feeling like it won’t protect marriage and family if this is the kind of response he should be getting!

PS I SWEAR I’m not trolling! I searched this site and several others before deciding to register here to ask, because I couldn’t find an answer anywhere!

I’m not sure what the norm is, but one priest during our RCIA class said that priests shouldn’t absolve someone if they intend to do the sin again. (We had the funny priest that day - he was using an example of if some mafia member gave a confession).

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you for one of the better answers given so far. His intention as he stated it was to find out “if the Church protects its Sacraments (marriage)”. I can see where it comes across as defaming priests, but I think he was actually quite shocked at the answer. I am too. As my friend said, how many people are thinking their marriages are great and they’re really not? He feels like giving absolution for something so potentially damaging (emotionally and physically in the form of STD’s) is contrary to the Church’s stance on the sanctity of marriage.

It definitely was NOT my intention to defame anyone. I was wondering if I should ask the Bishop about this, but there may be no point if the priest can’t defend himself…but…what if my friend confessed his deception to the Bishop himself? Would the original confessor still be bound by the seal?

Incidentally, I DID tell him to go back to the SAME confessor and make it right…and didn’t he make it my business by telling me about it? He asked me to find out if this was “standard”…I guess I probably won’t get that answer unless anyone wants to give away their own experiences…hadn’t thought about that, but I see why that probably won’t/shouldn’t happen…

I didn’t mean it wasn’t your business in terms of you having done anything wrong! He did make it “your business” in terms of talking it over. I meant that, other than being a good listener, you aren’t in a position to intervene directly, and that you have better places to send him for advice.

Of course, it goes without saying that no one should ever, ever, ever lie in confession. Your friend, as the saying goes, "has some “'splaing to do”. I can’t say, but I predict that he’s going to have a tough time passing himself off as a protector of the sacraments!

Having said that, generally speaking, if you have questions about your confession, you ought to talk to your confessor first. If that doesn’t work, go to another priest with the general problem. If your friend does that, he might well have get the answers given here, and better: why the penance did not include telling his wife, why the penance was what it was, why the priest thought he sounded contrite, and so on. Only the confessor could really tell him that, but if that doesn’t suffice, another priest is in a better position to explain the general principles than most (if not all) of us. He would also know what would constitute an abuse in confession by the confessor, and the best way to address that.

 

[Colin_Adian]

1. It would be very difficult to pray in the tabernacle.
2. Even if OP was bound by the SEAL I don’t think that this would be a mortal sin as it doesn’t appear to have all three requirements. It appears OP did not know that it would be a sin (which I don’t think it is) therefor making it a venial sin.
3. If this is not a hoax I am very concerned about the Priest and your friend.

 

[summasix]

his penance was 15 minutes of prayer in the tabernacle.

Firstly, I’m pretty sure only the Real Presence is allowed in the tabernacle.

Secondly, he must be young child if he can actually squeeze himself into the tabernacle.

Thirdly, he may just not have an adequate enough understanding of Confession or the tabernacle or just the Church in general to fabricate a viable tall tale.

 

[Nickkname]

Your friend’s story has more holes in it than swiss cheese

And your friend allegedly lied to a priest. If he lied to a priest, why do you think he wouldn’t lie to you about what happened? Just because he’s your friend?

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Sounds like your friend wants to find out if the church is going to police his wife with whom he has trust issues. Hey, this ain’t what confession is for. If she were being unfaithful to him and repented and confessed it, the priest would usually encourage her to go and sin no more. After receiving absolution, spending 15 minutes before the Blessed Sacrament would be an excellent way to fortify her to remain faithful. Priest don’t, in my experience, give absolution to someone who plans to continue ‘doing it’; the person must at least have the desire to stop.

If your friend would go to this extreme because he has ‘trust issues’ with his wife, I think he is in need of therapy. He sounds like a very controlling person who may be alienating his wife by his behavior. Marriage counseling would be a good idea.

He needs to come to terms with the fact that he can only control his own behavior. A change on his part may encourage his wife to change too.

 

[kage_ar]

Friend does not trust his wife or the Church.

He lies to to the Priest.

He then tells another woman (not his wife) about this lie and his mistrust of his wife.

Usually men who tell other women about how bad their marriage is and how the wife mistreats them are sitting that woman up to hit on them.

This guy needs to get to a couselor and work on his marriage, and to a Priest for real Confession. I’d advise you to distance yourself from this man.

 

[TVFL]

Sounds like your friend wants to find out if the church is going to police his wife with whom he has trust issues. Hey, this ain’t what confession is for. If she were being unfaithful to him and repented and confessed it, the priest would usually encourage her to go and sin no more. After receiving absolution, spending 15 minutes before the Blessed Sacrament would be an excellent way to fortify her to remain faithful. Priest don’t, in my experience, give absolution to someone who plans to continue ‘doing it’; the person must at least have the desire to stop.

If your friend would go to this extreme because he has ‘trust issues’ with his wife, I think he is in need of therapy. He sounds like a very controlling person who may be alienating his wife by his behavior. Marriage counseling would be a good idea.

He needs to come to terms with the fact that he can only control his own behavior. A change on his part may encourage his wife to change too.

i’ve told him all of that. i also told him about the answers given here and i think his mind was relieved about why penance wouldn’t include telling on himself. i’ve recommeded that he talk to another priest, one i know he trusts. i’ve also repeated the advice from here that he needs to go back to the other priest and confess what he has done.

thanks again to those who have responded, especially to those who read through the thread to give a clear answer. to the people who responded to only the original post after 3 pages of replies were present…isn’t that kinda like walking into the middle of a conversation and joining in based on the subject without listening to any of the current content?? i’m not the most knowledgeable about my Catholic faith, but i try to learn. i corrected myself about the tabernacle…my mixup in terminology shouldn’t invalidate my question.

 

[tessi]

Don’t believe everything you’re told. If he really did that, then he was mockering a Sacrament and that is a serious sin. Besides, God is not a fool nor the priests. The answer form the priest may have been the mock the Holy Spirit sent back to him.
What did he expect from penance? I don’t think any priest will tell you to say that to your wife.

 

[CatholiCommit]

In my opinion I think in the first place it is wrong to lie to a catholic priest, especially when you go to confession to admit your sins, whatever they might be, it seems there is something fishy about this situation, and even if he is telling you the truth he really should keep what he confesses to the priest to himself in one aspect, if you believe him that then that is your call, I just think that everyone he is expressing what they believe and try not to take offense to it, even if he has not told his wife the lie he told then it is still up to him at some point to get the courage to tell the truth, none of us can not do this for him and what ever the priest wants him to do is between him and the priest.

No pun Intended just pure honesty

 

[Jimmytwoguns]

Even if your friend who fabricated his confession was exaggerating and did not say he was going to commit this sin again, but had rather said he was truly sorry and contrite, if what you say is true as regards the rest it proves what I’ve been trying to say in my post on another thread re sacraments that the priest does not know if you are truly contrite or not, or if you are even making up the confession, only God knows and the argument that confession to the priest is the sole way by which one can be absolved because he knows if you have perfect contrition for your sin plainly holds no water.

Yes, of course, Christ gave priests who remain faithful to their calling the power to forgive sins, but Christ can be approached directly, and to tell God a downright lie is not only very sinful, but completely pointless.

JTG’S

 

[EasterJoy]

i’ve told him all of that. i also told him about the answers given here and i think his mind was relieved about why penance wouldn’t include telling on himself. i’ve recommeded that he talk to another priest, one i know he trusts.

That is good to hear. He made a serious mistake, but perhaps he did act out of ignorance, and it was just that. At any rate, that is something for him to discuss with his confessor.

You have done your job as his friend and his sister in Christ, and done it well.