Facebook criticised by Archbishop

[JReducation]

I suppose you only subscribe to those teachings of the Church that are formally defined ex cathedra? I suppose cafeteria Catholicism is not just for those on the Left.

To add to what Eric says, one also has to remember that there are very few papal statements that have invoked the authority of the Chair of Peter. Most statements made by popes usually make reference to the individual pope’s apostolic authority, not to the Chair of Peter. This is done very deliberately, to allow future popes the flexibility and freedom to revise these statements.

Dogmas are inafallible because they come from the scripture, from sacred tradition or have been declared so by an Ex Cathedra decree. But there are few Ex Cathedra decrees. Most dogma has come to us through the scriptures and sacred tradtion.

If we narrow our respect and obedience to authority only to that which is infallible, then we have an organizational chaos in the Church. There has to be assent to ordinary authority to preserve the unity of the Church.

This is where the bishop in the OP and St. Francis’ statement all come in. They exercise ordinary authority in the Church. The bishop exercises ordinary authority, because he is a bishop. Francis of Assisi and the other founders of the major religiuos orders of men exercise ordinary authority because Church tradition, Church law, and laws that govern religious, give the major superior a major religiuos order of men the same governing authority as they give to a bishop. They do not have the same sacramental authority. They do have the same governing authority, even if they are not priests.

In the case of ordinary authority, we are bound to give assent to that which is not in conflict with dogma or with a person of higher authority. This is a difficult thing for many people to understand, because it can get very legalistic and to tell the truth, very confusing at times.

The error committed by Lisa was to refer to the statement by St. Francis as “ridiculous.” You can’t call ridiculous a statement made by someone who has the authority to make it, when that statement is backed up with the Church’s tacit approval and when it has been part of the traditiion of the Church. You can choose not to apply it in your life, but you may not diminish its importance and its value, if the Church has accepted it.

Another good example is Benedict’s “Orat et labora”. It does not carry the weight of infallibility. But it has been accepted as part of the Church’s spirituality for over 1,000 years. Acceptance does not always come in a written statement, but just the fact that it is allowed to be repeated, applied and taught to the succeeding generations. We can’t suddenly say that it is a ridiculous statement.

When you become a Catholic you not only assent to the theology of the Church, but also to her spirituality which has been handed down by customs and word of mouth for generations and has not been reject by the Church, even if it has never received a documented approval. These things become part of Catholic heritage until the proper authority says differently.

Returning to the Facebook statement, the same applies. If the bishop has said this, there is nothing contrary to dogma in his statement. Therefore, it deserves respect, because it comes from an Ordinary within the Church, unless your local Ordinary makes a contrary statement. In that case, you have to follow the Ordinary of your jurisdiction. In my diocese, the bishop has made no such statement. Therefore, this particular statement is worthy of respect and thought. The bishop did not make it a law. It was an observation. As such it deserves respectful consideration.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[canadianguy1143]

The archbishop is right. Facebook and other online social forums are an evil which corrodes the ability of individuals to form genuine friendships. They ought to be shut down.

If you feel that way, where does CAF rate? CAF is certainly a social forum.

 

[CradleCath]

Yes, I don’t agree with that quote. Use words when necessary. The reason why is because the Catholic Church has dwindled so much this century. Catholics, in my view, do not seem to be evangelizing. Catholics seem to be oddly silent on most issues today. Most Churches I have been to are silent on important topics. I know of one Priest who got in trouble for a homily he gave. Why? Because people get MAD if you say the truth. People only want to hear political correct nonesense.
Oh, everyone can be saved. Oh, its all good no matter what religion you follow… oh, Obama is a good president, Oh… the Catholic Church doesn’t have any problems…oh, everything is so nice…oh…don’t say anything that will upset anyone…oh, just keep quiet and let people live their lives…

When I said I didn’t like that quote it is because I see it being used (I don’t know the context the Saint said it in)…by Catholics who are the same people who don’t seem to want to hear any ‘shocking’ opinions coming from anyone’s mouths.

It’s this whole hush hush thing. This idea that you don’t want to offend anyone. You should just be nice and quiet. Don’t rock the boat…etc. Just be a good Catholic and shut up.

I sincerely doubt that is the way to bring people to the Catholic faith. If everyone is too timid or afraid to speak out then no one will hear the truth and no one will speak the truth.

Political correctness has invaded the church and I don’t care if people disagree with me on that point.

I, as a new convert to Catholicism, apparently, according to JR, am not allowed to have any opinions? How odd? I thought everyone had opinions even Catholics.

Pity some Priests are not even allowed to state their opinions for fear of the lay people complaining. Well, if this is where the Church is at, where Priests cannot even deliver the truth as they see fit for fear of the ‘political correct’ police…then LOW and BEHOLD the times we are living in.

I firmly believe people should speak out. Yes, WORDS, not just live a quiet life and be afraid to offend others. Jesus offended people all the time. And yes, Jesus taught with WORDS! Amazing.

I don’t know the context the Saint used that sentiment in, but I am ALLOWED to disagree with it the Catholic Church is not a TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT.

Come on, Lisa…tell us how you** really** feel. Just kidding. You make some good points in your message. Many of our priests are afraid to mention sin from the pulpit & your comment about Political Correctness is spot on. It seems that very few Catholics are willing to even mention sexual sins. When was the last time you heard ANY Catholic explain to a non-Catholic the Churches view about living together without the benefit of Marriage, our teachings about artificial contraception, gay “marriage”? We are a little bit better about the sin of abortion, most of us will state our opinions about that.

As for evangelization, I’ve never been very good about that & I don’t know why. I used to have friendly discussions with a Baptist friend of mine…about faith ALONE & the “once saved always saved” theory. The arguments I made, that we are fallen human beings & will sin again & again, thus putting dependence on OSAS very dangerous, had no impact on her. . I don’t believe that what I said went past her ears.

I have a Brother who left the Church 40 years ago & I’m having no luck there, either. He has a chronic illness & is virtually living on borrowed time. (7 years ago, the doctors gave him 5 years). He is the “black sheep” of the family & no one but me really cares. I have invited him to Mass more than once, hoping that attending the TLM of his childhood might bring him back to the one, true Church. No luck, so…I’ve backed off because if I go too far with this, I just won’t see him again. That’s the way he is.

Anyway, I agree with you that one does need words as well as actions & prayers in order to evangelize well.

 

[Other_Eric]

If you feel that way, where does CAF rate? CAF is certainly a social forum.

To the extent that the forums here are used socially, they are evil. If, however, they are used to pursue greater knowledge of the faith, they are fine.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

JR, is that an **infallible **teaching of the Catholic Church?

If you think about it, it tells you that your actions speak louder than words. !!!

 

[Epistemes]

The error committed by Lisa was to refer to the statement by St. Francis as “ridiculous.” You can’t call ridiculous a statement made by someone who has the authority to make it, when that statement is backed up with the Church’s tacit approval and when it has been part of the traditiion of the Church. You can choose not to apply it in your life, but you may not diminish its importance and its value, if the Church has accepted it.

Actually, you *can *call such a statement ridiculous…because Lisa just did!

Reading your posts about the close relationship between apostolic authority and the governing authority granted to the founders of major religious orders has been a learning experience even for me, a Catholic of 2+ years now, so I can only imagine that Lisa, if she’s still reading, has been learning a great deal, too. She seems to be a passionate Catholic who doesn’t intend any harm, who does want what’s best for the Universal Church, and, well, it’s not taught to us in RCIA that the words of St. Francis or Ignatius of Loyola should be regarded as if our own local diocesan bishops had spoken them!

 

[Holly3278]

I agree.

I use facebook and twitter to spread news and information. It is a tool, depending on how you use it, it can be harmful or you can use it for a good purpose.

Catholics need to evangelize more and I think the internet is great for that.

And I don’t think that involves ‘speaking only when necessary’ or whatever that rediculous saying is.

Language is how people communicate. Without speaking we could not spread the gospel.

Catholic voices need to be heard.

That “ridiculous statement” that you quote is a quote from a saint. This saint’s words are very true and they are (as paraphrased): “Preach the Gospel at all times, use words when necessary.” What St. Francis is trying to say is that we should live the Gospel and by that, people will see our devotion to our Church and therefore will be more likely to accept our faith as their own.

 

[JReducation]

That “ridiculous statement” that you quote is a quote from a saint. This saint’s words are very true and they are (as paraphrased): “Preach the Gospel at all times, use words when necessary.” What St. Francis is trying to say is that we should live the Gospel and by that, people will see our devotion to our Church and therefore will be more likely to accept our faith as their own.

If you think about it, the statement is a paraphrase of the Gospel. “By their fruits you shall know them.” or “They shall know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

I am always humbled when the Church reminds us that the highest calling within the Church is not to marriage, not to ministry, not even to the priesthood, but to the hidden life of the monastic contemplative. She reminds us that those who live such a life have done more for the Good of the world than those in the active apostolate. For without their silence and their hidden life, the work of the apostolate would be weak.

It is humbling to see people like the Carthusians, the cloistered Carmelite nuns, the Cistercians, the cloistered Poor Clares, the Trappists who never speak. They never get involved in the affairs of the world. They never express an opinion about the issues that affect the Church today. I’m not sure that they even have an opinion.

They are totally inmersed in the mystery of Christ’s incarnate presence. They are totally silent and hidden, so that they can hear the word of God and keep it, as Mary treasured it in her heart. They remind us of Mary, the model for all Christians. Yet, Mary was not apostolic. She did not join the missionary activity of Peter and Paul. Only once does she speak to the people in the scriptures, “Do whatever he tells you.” Then she returns to her silence.

Yet, these holy monks and cloistered nuns have done more for the world, saved more souls, done more for the protection of culture, and produced more saints, than any preacher in the history of the Church. Even the great preachers such as Francis and Dominic had a counterpart community of monastic women who preached for them, not with words, but with their lives. To this day, those who are bound to silence and enclosure speak louder than the rest of us.

We should not take these words lightly. They are rooted in the Gospel and in the ancient monastic traditions of the Church, which have preserved the Church and will continue to do so until Christ comes again.

Sometimes we believe that we have to make a verbal statement about everything. But we must remember Mary and those holy monks and cloistered nuns who said very little, but reached so many souls. We have to strike that balance. Silence can be very loud.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[v3orb]

To the extent that the forums here are used socially, they are evil. If, however, they are used to pursue greater knowledge of the faith, they are fine.

I’m sure many people with excellent judgment think otherwise. Regardless, if you believed that, perhaps you wouldn’t post intentionally inflammatory remarks.

 

[Other_Eric]

I’m sure many people with excellent judgment think otherwise. Regardless, if you believed that, perhaps you wouldn’t post intentionally inflammatory remarks.

It should be remarked that even people with excellent judgment have the capacity to be mistaken about a great many things.

 

[maggiemay2u]

Maybe I just don’t get it.

There are few things more perplexing to me than what people see in facebook.

My cousin talked me into joining, and then came the other cousins, friends, and sundry associates.

I immediately became privy to one cousin’s exercise routine and another’s penchant for raiding the fridge. Each time a momentousness event occurs, I am noticed via email. Minutes ago I was regaled with the information of April liking oatmeal more than peanut butter cookies, and the fact Sandy can’t drink like she use to. I am also getting regular Chargers’ updates (I’m not a fan, but someone is)

The whole thing just seems narcissistic and unnecessary to me. It’s the 15 minutes of fame thing on steroids. Gimme email, texting, telephone, or heaven help me, a pen and paper, and I’ll communicate quite well, without the need for public exposure…

 

[canadianguy1143]

To make a blanket statement that Facebook totally undermines a community is not correct. Like in all things, Facebook can be taken to an extreme but so can the Internet as well. So can TV. So can a lot of things.

I use Facebook as its a great way to make contact with long lost friends and family across the world.

Getting endless E-Mail notifications about minutiae details is annoying but if you go into your “Privacy settings” you can disable those email notifications. I did it.

 

[JReducation]

I don’t think Facebook is the only media on the Internet that people abuse or simple misuse.

Take CAF. I get notifications about every entry on every post where I have posted. But I can tell you that many posts are totally inappropriate. I list my examples.

1. People who want spiritual direction online, from a stranger or strangers, without knowing their credentials or life experience and those who offer it.
2. Then there are those who are doing vocation discernment online, but are not using a vocation director or spiritual director and the crowd leads them on by answering their questions and not encouraging them to work with a pro in vocation discernment. Worse, the crowd gets so excited that Pepe wants to become a priest that they forget that you can’t become a priest just because you want it or een because you have the credentials to be ordained. Only two people have the authorithy to say that you have a vocation: for secular men, it’s the bishop. For religious men: it’s his superior. Most people on CA give vocation advice and are surprised when they’re told by a poster or is a religious or a cleric, to stop, because they information is incorrect.
3. We can move on to the people who want to hear themselves rant and rave about the faith. For some it has gone too far and for others not far enough. Sometimes, don’t you wonder if these whiners are really juat in love with griping? I had an aunt who griped when she needed a pick me up. No one had to say anything. She griped and made everyone angry and she was ready to face the world. May she rest in peace.
4. Finally you get to the armchair liturgists, theologians, pholosophers, apologists et al. It’s good to see people reading the documents, the CCC, the scriptures and the saints. It is annoying ask heck when someone can’t teach what they have read. I would like to hear what you read (via a link) and what you thought of it. BUT LET ME DECIDE what I think of it and how I understand it. If we disagree, let’s figure out why. Not throw barbs back and forth. Faith is not a hockey game. All that blood may be funfor some people.

I fully agree with Canadian Guy. You can use the social networks incorrectly and it’s not just Facebook. Or you can use them for fun, making friends and sharing ideas. What you think about the priest in plaid shorts is not an idea in its formal sense. A faith idea has a thesis statement based on some demonstrable facts or based on an admitted speculation. Social ideas are the same. They’re based on a thesis or on speculation.

If it’s not sharing of ideas, it can be a sharing of information, but we have to make sure that it’s information that is important for the recipient. Joey no longer likes sleeping with mom and dad since he turned 25 is worth sharing. If Joey no longer like PB&J, enoy it quietly.

If you have something funny to share, we all need a good laugh. Laughter is the first step toward joy.

If you think that you can teach something, teach it, don’t ram it down their throats. They will not appreciate you or what you’re teaching. Make it funl. Teaching can be a lot of fun. It can be interactive and funny. But don’t burden your folks with fear and guilt. That’s not a faith journey. That, in the hands of the worng receiver, can trigger a psychological nightmare and you’ll never know it, because you didn’t mean to do so and you don’t know the readers.

Speak gently so that your message can be heard, but it does not do damage. And if it does do damage, it will be fixable.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[joannazenobia]

If you think about it, the statement is a paraphrase of the Gospel. “By their fruits you shall know them.” or “They shall know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

I am always humbled when the Church reminds us that the highest calling within the Church is not to marriage, not to ministry, not even to the priesthood, but to the hidden life of the monastic contemplative. She reminds us that those who live such a life have done more for the Good of the world than those in the active apostolate. For without their silence and their hidden life, the work of the apostolate would be weak.

It is humbling to see people like the Carthusians, the cloistered Carmelite nuns, the Cistercians, the cloistered Poor Clares, the Trappists who never speak. They never get involved in the affairs of the world. They never express an opinion about the issues that affect the Church today. I’m not sure that they even have an opinion.

They are totally inmersed in the mystery of Christ’s incarnate presence. They are totally silent and hidden, so that they can hear the word of God and keep it, as Mary treasured it in her heart. They remind us of Mary, the model for all Christians. Yet, Mary was not apostolic. She did not join the missionary activity of Peter and Paul. Only once does she speak to the people in the scriptures, “Do whatever he tells you.” Then she returns to her silence.

Yet, these holy monks and cloistered nuns have done more for the world, saved more souls, done more for the protection of culture, and produced more saints, than any preacher in the history of the Church. Even the great preachers such as Francis and Dominic had a counterpart community of monastic women who preached for them, not with words, but with their lives. To this day, those who are bound to silence and enclosure speak louder than the rest of us.

We should not take these words lightly. They are rooted in the Gospel and in the ancient monastic traditions of the Church, which have preserved the Church and will continue to do so until Christ comes again.

Sometimes we believe that we have to make a verbal statement about everything. But we must remember Mary and those holy monks and cloistered nuns who said very little, but reached so many souls. We have to strike that balance. Silence can be very loud.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Very beautifully written. You make a very good point. I have always admired/been facinated by the monks and nuns in the monasteries. I wonder sometimes that I’m not attentive to homeless, or giving money to the church, or my time, when by their example alone, and our Holy Mother, all God wants from us is our time to him through prayers and devotion. Everything else is a distraction and means that take us away from him. There is truth to poverty and charity. The less stuff you have the more free you are. I confess that I have a facebook account, but I just pop in and pop out as if I was popping into my sisters house and then popping right out, but there are people (even Christians), who devote hours there. I’d rather devote hours in prayer.

Everything that takes my time away from him, facebook, Myspace…Interent/Tv…etc. it all takes us away from God. I am always reminded by watching the nuns, and our Holy Mother, that we are all called to live Holy lives.

 

[saintjohnxxiii]

Our holy Father Francis made that comment when he handed the following decrees to the brothers and sisters of the order. He was very concerned that men and women would speak irreverently against the clergy and hierarchy. Francis was very aware of the corruption among the clergy and within the Church. But he was also aware that despite the corruption and even heresy, the Church has the final word on everything and there is no debating with the Church. Thus he describes perfect obedience as absolute silence and perfect humility. The good Catholic was to preach through is silence and humility. He required the same obedience and silence of the laity as he did of the Franciscans.

St. Bernard and St. Bruno also required the same of their followers and the laity around them. For this reason the Carthusians and the Cistercians are never allowed to say anything about the current issues in the Church, nor are their lay associates. The Carthusians actually have a command to ignore it all, becuase it places their spiritual life and prayer life in jeopardy.

Teresa of Avila gave the same command to her cloistered nuns and to the Secular Carmelites, as did Clare of Assisi. If you recall, Mother Angelica was almost excommunicated for a comment that she made about a bishop. She had to apologize in public and in writing. The bishop complained to the Council of Franciscan Superiors and they threatened with excommunication and with shutting down EWTN, because one must preach through Gospel living and only if necessary use words, but words may never offend the clergy or the hierarchy. I hope this helps understand Francis’ teaching and why three popes have written about him and his perfect observance of the Gospel.

Francis was inspired by his knowledge of the scriptures especially Abraham, Isaac, and Jesus himself. Here are the decrees that he gave to the brothers and sisters. Here are some of Brother Francis’ decrees taken from his rule and writings.

**Blessed is the servant of God who exhibits confidence in clerics who live uprightly according to the form of the holy Roman Church. And woe to those who despise them: for even though they [the clerics] may be sinners, nevertheless no one ought to judge them, **because the Lord Himself reserves to Himself alone the right of judging them. For as the administration with which they are charged, to wit, of the most holy Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, which they receive and which they alone administer to others—is greater than all others, even so the sin of those who offend against them is greater than any against all the other men in this world.

The Lord says in the Gospel: he “that doth not renounce all that he possesseth cannot be” a "disciple " and “he that will save his life, shall lose it.” That man leaves all he possesses and loses his body and his soul who abandons himself wholly to obedience in the hands of his superior, and whatever he does and says—provided he himself knows that what he does is good and not contrary to his [the superior’s] will—is true obedience. And if at times a subject sees things which would be better or more useful to his soul than those which the superior commands him, let him sacrifice his will to God, let him strive to fulfil the work enjoined by the superior. This is true and charitable obedience which is pleasing to God and to one’s neighbor.

This is form of life is true evangelization according to St. Francis of Assisi.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

It has been brought to my attention that the popular phrase you use of St. Francis “Preach the gospel at all times, and if necessary use words” is something he never said.

Here are 2 sources that substantiate it:

americancatholic.org/messenger/oct2001/Wiseman.asp

catholicvote.org/pope-francis-and-st-francis-preach-the-gospel-always-and-for-the-love-of-god-use-words/

 

[Robert_Bay]

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