Facing East

  • Thread starter Thread starter slewi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

slewi

Guest
Hi. This excerpt:
The Vatican made a formal statement in the year 2000 about the position of the priest at the altar. In it the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship stated that in the new rite of Mass it is not forbidden for the priest to face East and that the oriental direction was indeed the ancient tradition of the Church.
Click to expand...
Is from a sermon at Assumption Grotto.

My questions is: what document is father referrring to?

S
 
40.png
slewi:
Hi. This excerpt:

Is from a sermon at Assumption Grotto.

My questions is: what document is father referrring to?
Click to expand...
Why don’t you ask Fr. Perrone directly?
 
40.png
mercygate:
Why don’t you ask Fr. Perrone directly? grottorectory@aol.com
Click to expand...
I would recommend first searching out the answer in documents written in 2000 (provided above), before contacting the rectory (imagine how many questions could potentially flood that email address). If the info above still doesn’t suffice, I can ask him and come back with the name of the document.

I’ll try to suggest that he cite such documents, at least by name in future writings.
 
Lux_et_veritas said:
(imagine how many questions could potentially flood that email address). .
Click to expand...

And that is the very reason I was hesitant to contact him. If in the future if I need certain clarifications, I may contact him, but I knew someone here would know!

And thanks for the replies!

S
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
But it can’t be televised in Irondale, AL!
Click to expand...
If I understand the situation correctly, the local bishop believes that because EWTN is within his territory, he has jurisdiction over EWTN and the Masses that are celebrated at the various chapels, shrines, and monestaries.

When the bishop asked that they not televise Masses celebrated ad orientum, the administration at EWTN chose to respectfully heed his request rather than test the validity of his authority over the network.

Didn’t this same bishop ask that they not televise any TLMs either?
 
40.png
MusicMan:
If I understand the situation correctly, the local bishop believes that because EWTN is within his territory, he has jurisdiction over EWTN and the Masses that are celebrated at the various chapels, shrines, and monestaries.

When the bishop asked that they not televise Masses celebrated ad orientum, the administration at EWTN chose to respectfully heed his request rather than test the validity of his authority over the network.

Didn’t this same bishop ask that they not televise any TLMs either?
Click to expand...
That’s my understanding as well, Music Man.

Maybe Benedict’s new man in Alabama will relax that restriction. Not that it will help me. I’ve been TV free for 2 months now! :clapping:
 
Dr. Bombay:
I’ve been TV free for 2 months now! :clapping:
Click to expand...
This is off-topic, but since I started the thread, I don’t care!😉

Why are you tv free Bombay my friend? Nip/Tuck and The O.C. getting to be too much for ya? 🙂

S
 
40.png
slewi:
This is off-topic, but since I started the thread, I don’t care!😉

Why are you tv free Bombay my friend? Nip/Tuck and The O.C. getting to be too much for ya? 🙂

S
Click to expand...
Actually it was Lost and the new Battlestar Galactica. Dreadfully addicting shows. :nope: But a buddy of mine reminded me that none of the great saints in the Church watched a lot of tv.

So, now that I’m tv free, I spend a lot more time on the 'net. :rolleyes: I’ve replaced one addiction with another. I’m pathetic.
 
Dr. Bombay:
Actually it was Lost and the new Battlestar Galactica. Dreadfully addicting shows. :nope: But a buddy of mine reminded me that none of the great saints in the Church watched a lot of tv.

So, now that I’m tv free, I spend a lot more time on the 'net. :rolleyes: I’ve replaced one addiction with another. I’m pathetic.
Click to expand...
As the new Battlestar Galactica begins the second half of its season this Friday, I highly recommend you back off of your 'net addiction and return to a bit of your TV addiction. … I knew there was a reason you were going to be a likable person on this forum. 👍

Oh, and I hope Benedict’s new man in Alabama will relax the restriction on EWTN televising Mass ad orientum.
 
40.png
MusicMan:
As the new Battlestar Galactica begins the second half of its season this Friday, I highly recommend you back off of your 'net addiction and return to a bit of your TV addiction. … I knew there was a reason you were going to be a likable person on this forum. 👍

Oh, and I hope Benedict’s new man in Alabama will relax the restriction on EWTN televising Mass ad orientum.
Click to expand...
Get thee behind me, Satan! 😉

I’ve pulled the plug on my dish, so I can’t see BSG even if I wanted to. Luckily, I’ve got family and they are my enablers. I’ll ask them to record it for me.

Now see what you’ve done, Music Man? :tsktsk:
 
40.png
MusicMan:
Oh, and I hope Benedict’s new man in Alabama will relax the restriction on EWTN televising Mass ad orientum.
Click to expand...
Since we’re already sliding off topic, I request a point of personal privilege to note that it is ad orientem, not -tum. Sorry. Stuff like that just drives me nuts. :o
 
Dr. Bombay:
I’ve been TV free for 2 months now! :clapping:
Click to expand...
10 years for me, one of the better decisions I ever made. Keep it up.

Back on topic…

Our parish recently went through a remodel and the pastor had installed a “dual use” altar that can be used facing east or facing the congregation. The pastor tried to turn the old altar around and got smacked down hard by the bishop, so he had a dual use one installed. The pastor said that he feels B16 will soon allow all priests (if not mandate it) to face east and he wanted our parish to be ready.
 
EWTN was asked not to tape the Ad Orientem Masses, but I know that Mother has the A.O. masses at the shrine daily.

Also, this info is all located within Raymond Arroyo’s book Mother Angelica: The Remarkable Story of a Nun, her Nerve and a Network of Miracles. (2005, Doubleday).

I have a copy and it is a remarkable book!

As far as I know the A.O. debate was one from many years past where Bishop Foley (i think) was expressing his authority and power over this STRONG nun!
 
EWTN was smart not to test his authority. Even though he is potentially wrong in his judgment as the local Bishop he has what is called the Right of Vigilence. This is because the shrine and the monestary are semi-private or public oritories. That qualification gives him jurisdictional rights over some particular aspects of the liturgy. By avoiding the canonical fight they were free to continue their particular practices.
 
40.png
arieh0310:
The pastor said that he feels B16 will soon allow all priests (if not mandate it) to face east and he wanted our parish to be ready.
Click to expand...
I hope so! :bounce:
 
40.png
slewi:
I hope so! :bounce:
Click to expand...
If any pope is gonna do it I think it will be Benedict. He has written forcefully for decades against this liturgical innovation, and in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy he was quite emphatic about returning to this ancient practice. In his book he said the practice of facing east came from the Jewish practice of turning towards the Temple in Jerusalem in prayer. But after the destruction of the Temple Christians decided to pray towards the rising sun as a symbol of our anticipation of the resurrection. From this article :
In the early Church, prayer towards the east was regarded as an apostolic tradition. We cannot date exactly when this turn to the east, the diverting of the gaze from the Temple, took place, but it is certain that it goes back to the earliest times and was always regarded as an essential characteristic of Christian liturgy (and indeed of private prayer). Spirit of the Liturgy p. 68
Click to expand...
These are strong words. Can something believed to be an “apostolic tradition”, and indeed, an “essential characteristic” of Christian liturgy, be so readily discarded as it has been since the 1960s? The position versus populum, now almost universal in celebrations according to the post-conciliar Roman Missal, was in fact unheard-of for fifteen centuries after Christ, and had its origin in the heretical Eucharistic theology of the Protestant Reformers. Ratzinger dedicates an entire chapter (“The Altar and the Direction of Liturgical Prayer”) to this question, pointing out that Vatican Council II never even suggested this novel change of position, and exposing the principal arguments in favor of it as being historically unfounded. “The turning of the priest toward the people has turned the community into a self-enclosed circle. In its outward form, it no longer opens out on what lies ahead and above, but is closed in on itself” Spirit of the Liturgy p. 80
Click to expand...
 
40.png
arieh0310:
If any pope is gonna do it I think it will be Benedict. He has written forcefully for decades against this liturgical innovation, and in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy he was quite emphatic about returning to this ancient practice. In his book he said the practice of facing east came from the Jewish practice of turning towards the Temple in Jerusalem in prayer. But after the destruction of the Temple Christians decided to pray towards the rising sun as a symbol of our anticipation of the resurrection. From this article :
Click to expand...
I just wonder how long it will be before he actually starts changing things. I understand currently he is putting more orthodox cardinals and bishops into certain positions. I know he recalled the Vatican’s ambassador to the US. Somethings in the works…

S
 
40.png
slewi:
I just wonder how long it will be before he actually starts changing things. I understand currently he is putting more orthodox cardinals and bishops into certain positions. I know he recalled the Vatican’s ambassador to the US. Somethings in the works…

S
Click to expand...
Well, if B16 is a little gun shy (or playing it cautious) we could always go over his head. :gopray2: :gopray: 😃
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top