Failure to understand the thought process

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farronwolf said:
That is the entire reason for the thread in the first place, and one which no one has yet to give an reasonable answer to.
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I think I did–political expediency. Pro-life supporters would alienate almost the entire voting population if they advocated for the logical–as you’ve pointed out–conclusion, punishing the mother.
 
JimG said:
Pro-life organizations uniformly argue for penal measures against abortionists, not women.
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Yes, but why??? I suggested political expediency. It’s certainly not a logical position, as the original poster pointed out.
 
farronwolf said:
So what should the legal sanctions be? That is the question I am asking. And why do so many people who are against abortions feel there should be no legal sanctions against the women who obtain them.

That is the entire reason for the thread in the first place, and one which no one has yet to give an reasonable answer to.
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Oh, I think you have been given your reasonable answer.

You are correct that if you are going to be labeling someone a murderer, that person must be subject to a murderer’s punishment. It is hypocritical not to.

However, the fact is that for many of our fellow citizens in this free nation, forcing a woman to gestate and give birth against her will is an unconscionable violation of her human rights. An abomination. And many of our fellow citizens do not concede that abortion is a form of murder.

So, people in the movement are very reluctant to focus on punishment of any kind for the woman, lest they lose the support of the public for their cause.

I think Erikaspirit16 expressed this well above.
 
Well yes you did answer it and I do agree with your reasoning.

I really was waiting for someone to say that is why they hold that position.
 
So what should the legal sanctions be? That is the question I am asking. And why do so many people who are against abortions feel there should be no legal sanctions against the women who obtain them.

That is the entire reason for the thread in the first place, and one which no one has yet to give an reasonable answer to.

The Church’s Stance with regard to Abortion and civil law - is that Abortion should have never have been legalized … and therefore the civil authorities should revert to its being Illegal.

Prior to its legalization - civil penatlies existed. And the numbers of Abortions which illegally occurred were as nothing when compared with the 1.5 Billion + since around 1970 to Today…

Of course It’s solely up to the civil authorities to enact legal penalties in proportion to laws on Abortion - stiff enough to extremely curtain if not virtually eliminate any subsequent Illegal Abortions

Penalties? JailTime? Fines? Both? Yet Never as extreme as the Death Penalty.

_
 
HopkinsReb said:
I’m not averse altogether to punishing the women who seek out abortions as well as the men who urge them to do so. But they’re just accomplices; the murder is carried out by the “doctors.”
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This is no different than hiring a hit man. They are both equally complicit.
 
farronwolf said:
Very interested in how members of the forum would justify their positions for or against punishment, and why or why not punishment should or shouldn’t fit the crime.
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I’m for punishment because it is murder and I support the death penalty because the punishment should be commensurate with the crime.
TULIPed said:
I wonder how Jesus would handle confronting a woman who had an abortion? Let me think…was there ever a time Jesus ran into a sinful woman while he was here…a woman who perhaps felt she was an outcast because of what she had done…maybe even felt shameful about it. Sure would be nice if there was example like that…
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So…don’t punish murderers? Or don’t punish female murderers? We’re not talking about their eternal destiny, we’re talking about a crime and whether it should be punished by the state and in what manner.
ShrodingersCat said:
Arresting women who had illegal abortions would serve only to protect illegal abortionists
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There is plea bargaining wherein one can get a reduced sentence by naming co-conspirators.
ShrodingersCat said:
And it demonstrates exactly zero compassion for the unique situation women find themselves in when experiencing a crisis pregnancy.
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Murder is not an acceptable way out of a crisis. Punishing murderers is not a lack of compassion.
JimG said:
And if women are punished for abortions, should the man who impregnated her be punished as an accessory?
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For getting her pregnant? That’s absurd.
JimG said:
when abortion was illegal or restricted in some states, the law did not punish women for obtaining an abortion.
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The Vatican States did, as well as punish the abortionist. And they were right to do so.
JimG said:
How about the mother or father who ordered her to have an abortion or be out of the house?
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If she is a minor, they should be punished, unless they find her another living arrangement wherein she has provision until her majority. If not, no. Cruelty isn’t necessarily coercion.
JimG said:
How about the politicians and judges who made it possible?
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I’m afraid that requires pitchforks and torches and a lot of tar.
Viki63 said:
Husbands or boyfriends threaten to leave them.
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That’s not bullying or coercion. It’s being an [expletive redacted]. If her husband or boyfriend told her to drown one their children in the bathtub or he’d leave we all know the proper response and we wouldn’t let her off the hook.
 
MiserereMeiDei said:
we’re talking about a crime and whether it should be punished by the state and in what manner.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) ShrodingersCat:
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You are absolutely correct. I should’ve been more specific about the interpersonal matter of my comment.
 
Did the discussion change to muslims and shariah without me noticing?

I don’t see the relevance.
 
Lol. And going to a women’s penitentiary instead of a men’s if it doesn’t go so well in court? I know I’d feel much safer… at least physically.
 
Women who get abortions should be subject to the death penalty…

Whew! That escalated quickly, as the kids say.

MiserereMeiDei, I do appreciate your candor.

As devoted followers of the truth, I think it is important to say directly what we mean. Not dance around and obfuscate because our thoughts may offend.

The expression of open animus towards women is refreshing in its honesty although it does serve to discredit the movement in the eyes of many.

Long live honesty and truth!
 
Why not reply to me directly? Did you not want me to be notified?
Questioner2 said:
MiserereMeiDei, I do appreciate your candor
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I don’t believe in beating around the bush.
Questioner2 said:
The expression of open animus towards women is refreshing in its honesty
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It’s animus toward murder and those who commit it, man or woman. Unlike those who want to let people off the hook for murder because they are women, I’m not a sexist.
Questioner2 said:
although it does serve to discredit the movement in the eyes of many.
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As if justice discredits anything. I think you mean it is distasteful to sexists. I understand.
Questioner2 said:
Long live honesty and truth!
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He shall.
 
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My apologies, MisererMeiDei. I did very much want you to see my post. I will be more aware of the reply function in the future.

And thank you for your reply to me.

It must be frustrating for you that so many pro-life organizations are careful to not advocate for the punishment of women, in order not to be off-putting to those that do not share their convictions. I think this hypocrisy is also a concern to the original poster.

The pretense of concern for the problems of the pregnant is not convincing when the true motivation seems to be scorn and the desire to punish those whom you consider murderers.

Your position is totally understandable and I wish more would have the courage of their convictions that you display.

In the name of honesty and truth.
 
Doh! Again I didn’t reply correctly. Please forgive me! See my message above.
 
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