Failure to understand the thought process

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The Church doesn’t teach that women who have abortions should be punished as murderers under any given country’s legal system and most Catholics do not personally hold that opinion either.

And even before Pope Francis’ changes, the church would have flat out rejected the insanely ironic and frankly offensive suggestion of the death penalty for women who have abortions (maybe that was a joke though).
 
In order for society to punish a woman that gets an abortion if illegal, you will have to change the mindset that the woman is not a victim. She is portrayed as a victim of parental or husband/boyfriend pressure, financial pressure and poverty/single motherhood pressure…all which lead most people to view her in some way as a victim. We don’t punish the victims.

To enact legislation that not only outlaws abortion but also places some form of blame on the woman, you are now having to change society on two fronts…abortion kills a human AND the woman is the criminal. I don’t see society willing to take even the first step, much less the second.
 
amys1 said:
In other words, I wish it was illegal so that the proper resources could be more readily sought. And then there would be hope. And then a child. Whether you’re able to keep him or let a loving family adopt him, your body, even physically, has not been violated. A child is breathing and a woman doesn’t carry guilt and shame for the rest of her earthly life.
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Women throughout history have had pregnancies that, for various reasons, they wanted to terminate. For much of that time it has been illegal.

And many of these, rather than “seeking the proper resources”, went for illegal and dangerous backalley abortions. Or were coerced into abusive or otherwise very difficult marriages or forced to give their children up for adoption against their will. Or ended up in other equally grim scenarios such as the so-called “Magdalene Laundries” in Ireland.

Because truth be told there really weren’t that many “proper resources” available, if one didn’t have loving or supportive family or friends. And many didn’t.
 
I am pretty certain, I never suggested the death penalty for a woman who gets an abortion. You might double check my posts. That certainly would not be a Pro-Life argument.

As far as the Church not teaching that a woman go gets an abortion be punished as murderers, does it teach that they shouldn’t be punished by society. I am not talking about the counseling, or the forgiveness that would be offered by the Church. The Church rarely punishes anyone, that isn’t the business they are in.

What are the Church’s teachings on punishment for other crimes established by societies. Does the Church teach that one should not be fined for driving violations, or that thieves not have any punishment, or that rapists not be punished, or even murderers go without punishment.

The Church does not disagree that societies can establish just punishments for crimes which they have made laws to forbid. I understand that a lot of Catholics don’t hold the opinion that women be punished for abortion if it were to be made illegal. My question is why. It goes against all logic. I don’t think that most people have thought past the argument that abortions should be illegal, which is very short sighted.

The only arguments I have heard for not punishing the woman are, they are victims, they don’t know any better, someone else told them to do it. All of which indicate that the person arguing from that standpoint really think women are weak or ignorant and can’t think for themselves.
 
Why not just go back to the State laws that were in place before 1973?

Each state had its own regulations with regard to abortion. In some states it was illegal in most instances. In others it was strictly or loosely regulated. No states prescribed criminal penalties agains women who had abortions, but they did prescribe penalties for abortionists.

And abortion was not a national issue in elections. It was only when the SCOTUS overturned the laws of every state in the union that it became an issue.
 
There is no going back. The SCOTUS has ruled that this issue is covered by the 14th amendment (I believe, without searching), therefore the states can not absolutely restrict abortions. This has been upheld time and again by the courts and the SCOTUS.

This is the design of our Constitution. If you don’t like the way our system of government is set up, there is recourse. A Constitutional amendment. I do believe I have stated that previously.

Short of that, abortion will remain legal in the US.
 
John Hart Ely, a supporter of legal abortion, complained that Roe is “bad constitutional law, or rather … it is not constitutional law and gives almost no sense of an obligation to try to be."

"One of the most curious things about Roe is that, behind its own verbal smokescreen, the substantive judgment on which it rests is nowhere to be found.” — Laurence H. Tribe, Harvard law professor

“As a matter of constitutional interpretation and judicial method, Roe borders on the indefensible. I say this as someone utterly committed to the right to choose. … Justice Blackmun’s opinion provides essentially no reasoning in support of its holding. And in the … years since Roe’s announcement, no one has produced a convincing defense of Roe on its own terms.” — Edward Lazarus, former clerk to Justice Harry Blackmun
 
  1. someone on this thread suggested the death penalty. Not sure who it was. I didn’t mean to imply it was you.
  2. the church does not have an official position against or for women being prosecuted for abortions as that would be a civil matter and outside the church’s scope. I was reassuring any women reading this thread that Catholics stating that they believed that women should go to jail for having abortions were expressing personal opinions, not church teaching.
  3. it may appear to go against all logic to you, but it does not to me. I do not agree that all crimes are deserving of civil punishment. A women who murders an abusive husband should perhaps be exempted from jail depending on the circumstances. I do not believe heroin users or prostitutes should ever be threatened with civil punishment for the crimes of heroin use and prostitution, for their own safety. And I believe that the fact that a woman has to carry another human inside her for nine months and endure a traumatic preganacy is a massive factor to consider. I still disagree with abortion, I think that the worth of the unborn life is equal to the worth of a born life, but I cannot agree (personally) that abortion deserves the same punishment as murder (or indeed any punishment). This is because I believe jail should only be used when it is for the greater good of society and I cannot believe that punishing women who have abortions is for the greater good of anyone. I’m not even sure it would prevent any abortions.
 
Women were never prosecuted for abortion before Roe v Wade. Why would they be now? It is a non-starter. Abortionists were prosecuted.

And speaking of Roe V Wade, the “Jane Roe,” of that case, Norma Corvey, never got an abortion, and later became a pro-life activist.
 
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Since you like to bring up the slavery issue on these threads. Slave owners weren’t prosecuted for abusing their slaves when slavery was legal.

Slavery still happens, though illegal today, folks are prosecuted for the treatment of the people they have enslaved in this country.

The because we didn’t do it before argument may work for some.
 
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