Failure to understand the thought process

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I believe that future laws regarding abortion should be no more draconian than the pre-Roe laws, which did NOT punish women for abortion (unless they were abortionists.)

Also pre-Roe, abortion was a state matter. State laws about abortion were not all the same.
 
Again, not answering the question asked. If you want to have a discussion about it being illegal or sinful to create a child, that probably needs to have a different thread started.

I can only assume you have no justification for your belief.
 
Yes, one, a son. What has that got to do with anything.

Does me being one of 11 siblings get me any brownie points for anything?
 
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Lemme know how you feel about the “lock her up because it’s all her fault” line of reasoning when you have a daughter.

Carry on.
 
Bernard Nathanson’s book, Aborting America, gives a good account of how abortion came to be promoted and legalized in the U.S.
 
So your justification for your position is because you have a daughter.

Not really following that line of thinking.

I have a son, the likely hood that he would murder someone is greater than if I had a daughter.

That in no way changes my thoughts on sending murderers to prison if found guilty. If God forbid he ever murders someone, I certainly would be upset, but in no way would I feel he should be exempt from punishment for his actions.
 
I have a son. What if my son had a girlfriend who loved him very much. What if one day things got out of hand and his girlfriend ended up pregnant. What if my son told his girlfriend that he wouldn’t love her any more unless she got an abortion. What if that girl, who loved my son more than anything in the world - so much that she would do anything for him - even get an abortion…got an abortion.

When we speak of murder, we also speak of accomplices to murder. If you’re going to lock up the woman, you need to address the man. In the immortal words of Fred Astaire, “It takes 2 to tango.”

On second thought, never mind. It’s all the woman’s fault. Lock her up.
 
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There are a lot of what if’s in there.

What if that girl said to your son if you love me x amount you will steal that purse I want so much. Your son would go to jail for his actions, not the girl who wanted the purse.

Back to your what if’s though. Yes it takes two to tango. They had consensual sex and she ended up being pregnant. He is responsible for taking care of her and the child. He is at fault for requesting that she seek and abortion. But since he has no actual control over whether or not she gets that abortion, he is not at fault.

The premise of you scenario is that the woman isn’t strong or smart enough to make rational decisions. If we start out with that premise, who is putting women down and blaming them.
 
farronwolf said:
But since he has no actual control over whether or not she gets that abortion, he is not at fault.
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That’s almost the literal legal definition of an accomplice to murder. For example - if I hire a hit man to murder somebody, I have no actual control over whether or not the hit man actually carries out the murder. Try again.
 
First, you would have had to pay the hit man for him to even consider it, or give him something else of value. In that act, you are being the accomplice and yes, you will go to jail for that.

The act of saying if you love me you will do this, or I will leave you, again is starting with the premise that women are not smart or strong enough to function on their own.

The woman is always pressured into having the abortion is also overstated. Does it happen in some cases, certainly. But lots and lots of abortions are for the simple convenience of the woman as a means of birth control.

When one has to start their arguing point from the extreme indicates a weak argument.
 
farronwolf said:
When one has to start their arguing point from the extreme indicates a weak argument.
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Perhaps.
farronwolf said:
But lots and lots of abortions
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Using “lots and lots” isn’t what I would call the gold standard for strong arguments.

Look - my only point is that abortion - like all criminal cases - is usually more complicated than we would like. And if your aim is to stop abortions by locking women up - well, I don’t think you’ll be successful. I think the only way we’ll make a dent in abortions is by sharing the Gospel with as many people - men and women - as possible.
 
Every prolife organization I know of opposes punishing women for abortions.

lozierinstitute.org

Protecting Life, Not Punishing Women - Lozier Institute

The treatment of women seeking abortions has arisen several times during the ongoing election cycle. Some abortion advocates claim that pro-lifers want to punish women seeking abortion. They argue that women were punished for having abortions before Roe v. Wade was decided by the Supreme Court...
lozierinstitute.org lozierinstitute.org
 
I don’t disagree with your position that it is complicated, or that locking women up will end abortions.

My question and failure to understand comes from the fact that there is a push to vote for politicians and stack the courts to make abortion illegal, and if you don’t vote a certain way you aren’t be Christian or Catholic. What then, though?

If there isn’t a penalty for getting one, what have we gained? Nothing.

Can we lock up doctors, sure that is the easier target, but it won’t stop the procedures from happening, and at the same time we limit the resources those doctors are able to give women to ensure they have successful pregnancies.

I could just as easily argue the same things you have put forward, I just chose my side on this one. But I don’t think that folks have given a lot of thought to the long game in the fight against abortion.

The only solution is for people to start loving their neighbors instead of loving themselves. Unfortunately, I think that ship has sailed though.
 
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