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Pathway2
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Faith Alone. does it really work? what verses could counter Faith alone.
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Agathon
Guest
Check James 2.
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anon65111186
Guest
It is a matter of justification.
There are many verses but one biggie is James 2:14-26: What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Others are
Psalms 15:
Psalms 106:28-31:
Matthew 5:16:
Matthew 5:48:
Matthew 7:21:
Matthew 7:24-27:
Matthew 12:36-37:
Matthew 16:27:
Matthew 19:16-21:
Matthew 21:28-31:
Matthew 24:10-20:
Matthew 25:31-46:
Matthew 28:19-20a:
Luke 8:21:
Luke 10:25-28:
John 5:29:
John 13:35
Acts 26:20:
Romans 2:6-16:
Galatians 6:7b-9:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
1 Corinthians 7:19:
1 Corinthians 10:12:
1 Corinthians 13:2-3:
1 Corinthians 13:13:
2 Corinthians 5:10:
Philippians 2:12b-13:
1 Timothy 4:16:
1 Timothy 6:18-19:
Hebrews 10:24:
James 1:22:
James 2:14-26:
1 Peter 1:17:
1 Peter 2:12:
1 John 2:3-7:
1 John 3:17-18:
Revelation 2:23:
Revelation 14:12-13:
Revelation 20:13:
Revelation 22:12-15:
There are many verses but one biggie is James 2:14-26: What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Others are
Psalms 15:
Psalms 106:28-31:
Matthew 5:16:
Matthew 5:48:
Matthew 7:21:
Matthew 7:24-27:
Matthew 12:36-37:
Matthew 16:27:
Matthew 19:16-21:
Matthew 21:28-31:
Matthew 24:10-20:
Matthew 25:31-46:
Matthew 28:19-20a:
Luke 8:21:
Luke 10:25-28:
John 5:29:
John 13:35
Acts 26:20:
Romans 2:6-16:
Galatians 6:7b-9:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
1 Corinthians 7:19:
1 Corinthians 10:12:
1 Corinthians 13:2-3:
1 Corinthians 13:13:
2 Corinthians 5:10:
Philippians 2:12b-13:
1 Timothy 4:16:
1 Timothy 6:18-19:
Hebrews 10:24:
James 1:22:
James 2:14-26:
1 Peter 1:17:
1 Peter 2:12:
1 John 2:3-7:
1 John 3:17-18:
Revelation 2:23:
Revelation 14:12-13:
Revelation 20:13:
Revelation 22:12-15:
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Pathway2
Guest
that isn’t james 2
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Agathon
Guest
What do you mean?
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Pathway2
Guest
well, a Lutheran argue that James 2 was about righteousness upon men not God plus it is argued that even though good works are the result of Faith, good works don’t matter in justification. I have argued that all what Paul really meant when we were saved by faith, the good works were really circumcision.
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Agathon
Guest
And I as a Catholic would disagree with that argument.
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Pathway2
Guest
why? pleases explain.
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Agathon
Guest
Because man doesn’t do anything to merit justification whether by law or nature.
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fhansen
Guest
Luther, himself, wanted to throw out the Book of James, and did to begin with. Took quite a few mental gymnastics and concept finagling to fit in an explanation that makes James say what he doesn’t really say. But aside from that, read the NT in its entirety, along with Jer 31:33-34. The New Covenant was never about God suddenly deciding to ignore justice/righteousness in His creation, but rather to restore it. We weren’t created to be sinners after all; He wants more for us than that. And the name of justice for man is not “faith”, rather it’s love, which is why the Greatest Commandments happen to be what they are, and why Paul would say in 1 Cor 13, “…if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing.”, and, “Now these three remain, faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love.” And Augustine could say, "Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."
Faith is the beginning of our justification but it must lead to love in order for that, justice, to become fact. And it inevitably leads to love to the extent that it establishes communion with God, ‘apart from Whom we can do nothing’, and to the extent that we remain in and true to that communion. And this, BTW, is why Matt 25:31-46 makes sense when it provides a basis for judgment on acts done for “the least of these”.
Faith is the beginning of our justification but it must lead to love in order for that, justice, to become fact. And it inevitably leads to love to the extent that it establishes communion with God, ‘apart from Whom we can do nothing’, and to the extent that we remain in and true to that communion. And this, BTW, is why Matt 25:31-46 makes sense when it provides a basis for judgment on acts done for “the least of these”.
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C
Cathoholic
Guest
Pathway2 . . . .
Why not?
Because “faith” comes from “hearing the word PREACHED to you” as St. Paul reminds us in Romans 10.
So at LEAST faith includes the WORK of preaching from the “men” who are preaching it.
There are other aspects to faith that I am not mentioning, and if you want, we can get into more details.
But faith “alone” cannot exist without at least SOME WORK.
(In St. Paul’s example, the WORK of “preaching”–in which case it is not faith “alone” any more unless someone wants to deceive themselves into insisting it is.).
God bless.
Cathoholic
.
It can’t work Pathway2.Faith Alone. does it really work? what verses could counter Faith alone.
Why not?
Because “faith” comes from “hearing the word PREACHED to you” as St. Paul reminds us in Romans 10.
So at LEAST faith includes the WORK of preaching from the “men” who are preaching it.
There are other aspects to faith that I am not mentioning, and if you want, we can get into more details.
But faith “alone” cannot exist without at least SOME WORK.
(In St. Paul’s example, the WORK of “preaching”–in which case it is not faith “alone” any more unless someone wants to deceive themselves into insisting it is.).
God bless.
Cathoholic
.
ROMANS 10:14-15, 17 14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!” . . . . 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.
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bsy
Guest
There’s NO VERSE in the Holy Bible that supports salvation is by faith alone. The word “alone” is added on.
Ephesians 2:8 and Romans 3:28 are most often used to justify “salvation by faith alone.” The “works” refer to the “works of the law” and not “good works.” The “works” included circumcision, burnt offerings, etc.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast.
Romans 3:28
For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
In reading the Bible, one must understand a verse in its context.
In Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me on that day,Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.
Think about it, who prophesy in Jesus’ Name, and who drive out demons or do mighty deeds in His Name? Are they not people who profess faith in God? But what is God’s Judgment against them? Jesus called them "evildoers."
In Matthew 25:31-46, how did God divide the “goats” and the “sheep”, is it not by their works? Goats to eternal punishment; and sheep to eternal life.
In Revelation 20:12, the dead are judged according to deeds.
Ephesians 2:8 and Romans 3:28 are most often used to justify “salvation by faith alone.” The “works” refer to the “works of the law” and not “good works.” The “works” included circumcision, burnt offerings, etc.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast.
Romans 3:28
For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
In reading the Bible, one must understand a verse in its context.
- Paul was preaching to the Gentiles.
- Paul was encouraging the Gentiles that salvation is no longer exclusive to the Jews (who observed the Law and its works) but it is for all. Children of the promise, not only of flesh.
In Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me on that day,Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.
Think about it, who prophesy in Jesus’ Name, and who drive out demons or do mighty deeds in His Name? Are they not people who profess faith in God? But what is God’s Judgment against them? Jesus called them "evildoers."
In Matthew 25:31-46, how did God divide the “goats” and the “sheep”, is it not by their works? Goats to eternal punishment; and sheep to eternal life.
In Revelation 20:12, the dead are judged according to deeds.
S
Seagull
Guest
I like the idea of faith as described by an Eagle -
The big eagle - pushes baby eagle out of the nest - to get it to fly - for the first time.
If the kid eagle is still too young -
the parent swoops down - and catches the kid - and brings it back to the nest !
I think there’s a scripture about that -
" But they that wait upon the Lord
shall renew their strength;
they shall mount up with wings as eagles;
they shall run, and not be weary;
and they shall walk, and not faint.
The big eagle - pushes baby eagle out of the nest - to get it to fly - for the first time.
If the kid eagle is still too young -
the parent swoops down - and catches the kid - and brings it back to the nest !
I think there’s a scripture about that -
" But they that wait upon the Lord
shall renew their strength;
they shall mount up with wings as eagles;
they shall run, and not be weary;
and they shall walk, and not faint.
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S
Seagull
Guest
Matthew 14:31
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand,
and caught him, and said unto him,
O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Why Peter couldn’t walk on water - lol
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand,
and caught him, and said unto him,
O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Why Peter couldn’t walk on water - lol
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petra22
Guest
Suppose someone is on their death bed and come to believe and have faith in the promises of Jesus. That alone would probably save the person. But for anyone who is able and living in the world… belief in the promises causes ACTION. Working for the good of others even if it is praying in the quiet of your house when you can’t get out… Faith causes a person to want to do something for the glory of God.
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Pathway2
Guest
how should we now approach faith? for now we are saved by grace though faith in Jesus, and not by Faith alone?
A
Angel_Bradford
Guest
James Chapter 2:
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
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jcrichton
Guest
Considering that the only passage in Scriptures where these come together is “not faith alone” one wonders why it is still being taught (faith alone) other than the obstinacy of being self-authority:
Claiming that there’s a marked difference in “justification” and “salvation.”
The problem with such premise is that it insinuates that one can be saved without Justification, which comes from God!
Maran atha!
Angel
…of course, a trained faith-a-loner would train his/her mind to “justified.”17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? (St. James 2)
Claiming that there’s a marked difference in “justification” and “salvation.”
The problem with such premise is that it insinuates that one can be saved without Justification, which comes from God!
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
…actually, the argument of St. Paul is that not by the works of the Law are we Saved; meaning that not by observing the 10 Commandments and the various (640+) Mosaic Laws are we Saved… they confuse works of the Law with works of Faith (the Grace Brought to us by Jesus).
They also confuse the reason why works of the Law cannot save; it is not because what is prescribed by the Law cannot save; it is because man cannot fulfill the completeness of the Law:
Maran atha!
Angel
They also confuse the reason why works of the Law cannot save; it is not because what is prescribed by the Law cannot save; it is because man cannot fulfill the completeness of the Law:
See how St. James clarifies? If we do the works of Christ/Faith/Love we are victorious; yet, if we transgress one point of the law (as in showing preference to man) we break all of the Law.8 If then you fulfill the royal law, according to the scriptures, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; you do well. 9 But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, being reproved by the law as transgressors. 10 And whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become guilty of all. (St. James 2)
Maran atha!
Angel
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Pathway2
Guest
I admit that I think Martian Luther didn’t consider that Paul was dealing wit the matters like Circumcision especially since Romans was originally addressed to the Christians both Gentile and Jew; this was the breaking point of what Christianity should be, even when it was addressed in Acts. In fact all the books when Paul is talking about salvation through Grace is when he is addressing circumcision.
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