Faith Alone: One for the files

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Joshua,

You should not be so dishonest.

CDL
Is Paul ‘dishonest’?
Is Peter Dishonest.?

May I suggest, that if savaltion can be accomplished by works, then scripture itself is in error.

Who is the ‘dishonest’ one?

One who goes by the law and dogma of men…or one who believes God?

‘Works’ is the result of faith.
Not the other way around.

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my[e] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

May I also suggest, that even if Moses himself could enter the promise land, then his works as scripture cites is as ‘dirty rags’ in the eyes of God.

As Paul writes…if he does any ‘good’, it is ‘Christ in me’, NOT Paul doing the ‘work’.

If the cross was insufficent for salvation, then by what means, even if the Priests of the Temple could not be saved, is there hope?

The ‘hope’ is in Christ Jesus.
Not your self rightouness.

Joshua

Joshua
 
Is Paul ‘dishonest’?
Is Peter Dishonest.?

May I suggest, that if savaltion can be accomplished by works, then scripture itself is in error.

Who is the ‘dishonest’ one?

One who goes by the law and dogma of men…or one who beleives God?
Joshua
So, Joshua-who-claims-to-be-Catholic… is the good thief’s utterance to the bad thief a work? It came after his acceptance of Jesus, and before he was pronounced on his way to Paradise.

.
 
So, Joshua-who-claims-to-be-Catholic… is the good thief’s utterance to the bad thief a work? It came after his acceptance of Jesus, and before he was pronounced on his way to Paradise.

.
Do I preach the Gospel of men or the Gospel of Christ?
Do I adhere to the ‘itching ears of men’…or believe God?

1 Thessalonians 2:3For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:

4But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.

5For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
 
The thief did NO works.
He repented, reconized Yeshua (Jesus) and place his faith in Him.
It was by ‘faith’ he was saved and the grace of God…nothing more.
If the thief did this by ‘works’ than Ephesians is in error or you are.

I’d say that was pretty straight forward with not alot of room for interpretation.
Well, one would think, but clearly you are interpreting it according to your bias. You have listed the work that he did. He recognized, he confessed his sin, he put his faith in Christ… these are all things that he did. God did not do them for him. In fact, he did the most important work that Christ commands:
It is by faith you are saved, not of works. Either Paul, a former Pharisee and Jew, was correct…or he was a liar and apostate…
You can’t have it both ways.
Joshua
Oh, indeed, Catholic do have it both ways! We know that the most important faith is that which works.👍

This may come as a shock to you, but Paul never stopped being a Pharisee, or a Jew.
 
Do I preach the Gospel of men or the Gospel of Christ?
Do I adhere to the ‘itching ears of men’…or believe God?

1 Thessalonians 2:3For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:

4But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.

5For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
Well, if it is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, handed down to the Apostles, and entrusted to the only Church founded by Jesus and protected by the Holy Spirit… then you must be preaching the Gospel of men as you know it.

Not unusual for a Catholic who has left the Catholic Church.

I can only suggest a heavy dose of the Early Fathers. There you will see not only the Gospel message as the Early Church lived it, but also the same message, same teaching, same witness to Christ found only in the Catholic Church.
 
“is the good thief’s utterance to the bad thief a work? It came after his acceptance of Jesus, and before he was pronounced on his way to Paradise.”

Luke 23:40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 **
Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”**

No…it came AFTER (read the scripture) he asked to be with Him in paradise.

What ‘work’ could the thief do to ensure His salvation other than reconizing his sin, and putting his faith in Yeshua (Jesus)?
In what way could the thief possiably attone for his sins?
He could not offer sacrifice as precribed by Mosaic law.
He certainly could not do a work of ‘good’ after he accepted Yeshua.

His complete dependence on his salvation was simply repentence and trust.
Nothing more.

Joshua
 
What ‘work’ could the thief do to ensure His salvation other than reconizing his sin, and putting his faith in Yeshua (Jesus)?
In what way could the thief possiably attone for his sins?
He could not offer sacrifice as precribed by Mosaic law.
He certainly could not do a work of ‘good’ after he accepted Yeshua.

His complete dependence on his salvation was simply repentence and trust.
Nothing more.

Joshua
Placing our faith in Jesus is a work, in fact, the most essential work. It is something a person does. God does not do it for him. If you think that the purpose of “good works” is to atone for sins, then you misunderstand the role of good works. Nothing can atone for sins but the blood of Christ.

However, we cannot apply the blood to ourselves by being passive. We must make an act of the will, and place our faith in Him.
 
Well, if it is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, handed down to the Apostles, and entrusted to the only Church founded by Jesus and protected by the Holy Spirit… then you must be preaching the Gospel of men as you know it.

Not unusual for a Catholic who has left the Catholic Church.

I can only suggest a heavy dose of the Early Fathers. There you will see not only the Gospel message as the Early Church lived it, but also the same message, same teaching, same witness to Christ found only in the Catholic Church.
If you are familar with the law, then you know that the ‘law’ was corrupted.
The Pharisees, the judges of the law, had forgotten what the law was for.

They replaced it with ritual, long prayers, adornments.
They became proud.

"25And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

They’re own self rightous was now the ‘way’…not the precepts of the law of God or of the Prophets.
Their very works and the law a stumbling block.

Much of what we see in the Churches today.
Romans 9:31
31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In short, the Temple was corrupted.

On the outside, they were ‘religious’, but Yeshua (jesus)condemed them for by their very works, they had become proud and fallen short of the rightous of the law of God.

Who is justified by the law?
None…
The law or works promote boasting in one’s own self rightousness, not the rightousness of Christ through the Cross.

Galations 3:10-12

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Justified by Faith…
Romans 3:
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Only by repentence and faith is one justified.

Josh
 
Is Paul ‘dishonest’?
Is Peter Dishonest.?

May I suggest, that if savaltion can be accomplished by works, then scripture itself is in error.

Who is the ‘dishonest’ one?

One who goes by the law and dogma of men…or one who believes God?

‘Works’ is the result of faith.
Not the other way around.

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my[e] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

May I also suggest, that even if Moses himself could enter the promise land, then his works as scripture cites is as ‘dirty rags’ in the eyes of God.

As Paul writes…if he does any ‘good’, it is ‘Christ in me’, NOT Paul doing the ‘work’.

If the cross was insufficent for salvation, then by what means, even if the Priests of the Temple could not be saved, is there hope?

The ‘hope’ is in Christ Jesus.
Not your self rightouness.

Joshua

Joshua
You create your own gospel. You deny the work of Christ and claim that you are supporting it. You deny the very way Christ gives us salvation and then accuse us of something false. You are the false teacher. I really do get weary of this but then we’re here to try to bring you to salvation. So we remain patient. We pray for you and we tolerate you scurrilous lies and insults.

CDL
 
Do I preach the Gospel of men or the Gospel of Christ?
Do I adhere to the ‘itching ears of men’…or believe God?

1 Thessalonians 2:3For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:

4But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.

5For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
Yes, you seem to have itching ears and preach a gospel not of God but of yourself. You do not trust in God or you would be Catholic. You can twist all the Scriptures you wish but you are proposing a Gospel not of God.

CDL
 
So, Joshua-who-claims-to-be-Catholic.
Speak of dishonesty. This man is clearly not Catholic. He is either dishonest or completely deluded. We must pray for his conversion.

CDL
 
You create your own gospel. You deny the work of Christ and claim that you are supporting it. You deny the very way Christ gives us salvation and then accuse us of something false. You are the false teacher. I really do get weary of this but then we’re here to try to bring you to salvation. So we remain patient. We pray for you and we tolerate you scurrilous lies and insults.

CDL
I support with scripture.
No manmade dogma.
Nice ‘christian’ attiude you got there…😛
 
I support with scripture.
No manmade dogma.
Nice ‘christian’ attiude you got there…😛
You recite scripture. So does Satan. I plead with you to renounce your false teachings and become a Christian.

CDL
 
If any one here, thinks in their wildest imagination, that you can ‘work’ your way to Heaven, your the false teachers.

Paul, Peter and the Apostles taught a Gospel of repentence and faith in Christ Jesus.

Nothing here, that your suggesting, comes within the precepts and writings of the Apostles.

You cite manmade dogma.

Do we believe scripture or man?

The scripture is there…read them.

Josh
 
By the way, if you really want to rattle the devils cage, post scripture.
Legalists goes ballistic.😛
Josh
 
If any one here, thinks in their wildest imagination, that you can ‘work’ your way to Heaven, your the false teachers.

Paul, Peter and the Apostles taught a Gospel of repentence and faith in Christ Jesus.

Nothing here, that your suggesting, comes within the precepts and writings of the Apostles.

You cite manmade dogma.

Do we believe scripture or man?

The scripture is there…read them.

Josh
I don’t believe you. If you are a man, I certainly don’t believe one man. We believe God who gave His Church and who gave the Church His Scripture. You twist it to your religion, whatever that is. Again, I plead with you to repent.

CDL
 
If any one here, thinks in their wildest imagination, that you can ‘work’ your way to Heaven, your the false teachers.
The CC does not teach that man can work his way to heaven. I urge you to read the canons of Trent on justification. You will be surprised! HERE

Forgiveness of sins is not obtained through human effort but by Christ ‘s suffering and death. Humans receive the grace earned by Christ by faith and repentance. However, what faith is saving? A living one not a dead one, to use St. James’ terminology. A living faith is one that works through love.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. -Galatians 5:6 NASB
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. . .You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2: 17&24 NASB
These passages clarify the situation. We see here that works(of the law, circumcision etc…) are of no avail, but a faith working through love can save. I hope this clears things up.
 
My friends,

What really bothers me…and I suppose it irritates me a bit…is people coming to Catholics and accusing them of all sorts of nonsense and no matter how patently or how often we try to correct their misconceptions they keep accusing us of all sorts of unsubstantiated nonsense. I know that those who oppose the Church came up with these silly ideas because they have to justify their own ego driven hatred for us. It isn’t so much the fault of those who don’t know better but still it’s hard to remain patient with those like Joshua here and others elsewhere who insist upon their own prejudices against the Church even when we show them the errors of their ways.

Evangelization is a holy and noble calling. Let’s keep each other in our prayers that we not flag or fail in our calling.

CDL

BTW Trent’s canons on Justification are beautiful and complete. I pray that Joshua reads, understands, and humbles himself before the True faith in Christ.
 
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