Faith vs. Science

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Hi everyone! I’m quite new here, but my name is Ashleigh, I’m turning 16 in about a week and a half. I’m in desperate need for advice. Basically I was baptized Catholic when I was 4 months old, my mum’s side of the family is very religious and have taught be about Jesus. I’ve always believed and I’ve always thought the stories in the bible are just awesome. Basically in February I was going through a really tough time. I have autism, which has also lead to OCD, depression, anxiety, panic attacks, and schizophrenia. People were bullying me, and everything was just going wrong. Despite my strong faith, I began to doubt God, he hadn’t answered any of my prayers about getting better and being accepted by others. And I began to loose my faith in Him.

After a few days I started feeling wrong, I felt I didn’t have God with me. Before that I could feel him with me 24/7. I’ve been through episodes of begging him, and episodes of just not bothering because it’s too hard without him. There have been one or two occasions where I felt him with me, like one I was at a camp in April, and the man doing a sermon told us all to close our eyes, and told us God will come to us and tell us what we need to hear. I felt him tell me my best friend (who is Catholic but not religious or spiritual) wanted to believe but didn’t know how. I talked to her and God was right! That was amazing for e because that was also the first time God really talked to me directly.

But I’ve always believed, I know He’s with me even though I can’t feel him anymore.

I also loooooooove science, I take biology in school and I love it. This semester we’ve learned about cells (mitosis and meiosis, organelles, etc.), DNA and RNA, and evolution. I’ve enjoyed learning about all this stuff, and thought natural selection, artificial selection and all of Darwin’s theories are pretty cool. It wasn’t until last night at my youth group (which is a Baptist youth group, even though I’m Catholic) we talked about science vs. christianity. We talked about what we believe about the creation, and how they all thought evolution was a pile of trash. I’m here believing that it was God who created a single plant cell and a single animal cell that eventually evolved into everything we see today. But they’re completely believing in what Genesis says about creation. I guess I kinda merged science and Christianity when it comes to creation. But I do kinda believe in evolution, because there is some proof. Just as much proof as there is God being real.

I’m currently torn between science and faith though. Like, I believe in many different things compared to what the bible says, because what I believe is what God has showed me. He wouldn’t have given me such a big interest in science - especially biology and cosmology - if I wasn’t meant to believe it.

My initial beliefs are:
• God created the universe, and a single animal cell, and a single plant cell on Earth. And evolution has kinda taken over from there, but evolution has still been guided by God, because how could nothing create things that are so complex and perfect, even if it’s just one trait at a time over million and billions of years. To me evolution makes a lot more sense than everything appearing in 6 days. But God still made it all happen.

• I believe in all of Jesus’ teachings 100%. I don’t hate. I treat everyone with total respect no matter how they treat me.

• God makes everything happen for a reason. He makes us how He wants us to be. Even if those things don’t reflect him.

• After we die, we live with Him. In paradise. So we don’t really die, it’s just our bodies, our shells, our disguises that die. Then we go to heaven and live in total peace with him and our loved ones.

But I’m also desperate to be close to him. I’ve read some devotionals out of a magazine I received last night, and read a couple on the internet. I want to say my faith is strong again. And are my beliefs strange? At my youth group last night they really didn’t agree or accept my beliefs about creation. Which I think is dumb because you should accept with everyone’s opinions because everyone has different opinions. It’s frustrating and makes me feel like I’m abandoning my faith even though God has a massive part in all my beliefs.
 
Hello, Ashleigh! First off, let me welcome you here to CAF. I’m probably not the best person to first respond to you, but you asked for some advice. I think I can give you two pieces that probably most people here would agree with:

1) Continue to feed your curiosity, both religious and scientific.
It does my heart good to see a young woman so passionate about science. There’s an amazing world out there with so much to discover, and these are exciting times to be learning in. Also from what I’ve seen from other posters I know they are thrilled when they here stories of young people embracing their faith and not shying away from it.

I know in your introduction you talk about some of the struggles you’ve encountered so young. Keep your hunger for knowledge. Read, read, read, read – everything from church fathers to scientific journals. Your world is limited only by the knowledge you possess.

2) Don’t concern yourself if you don’t have all of the answers right now.
I know this seems like a contradiction to my first point, but it’s not. Strive to know more; but don’t kick yourself if you, just shy of 16, haven’t solved the big questions that have stumped man forever. This includes the question as to where faith and science intersect. Even the Catholic Church doesn’t give a definitive meeting point. That’s where you and people like you come in – people who are strong both spiritually and scientifically. Be truthful in both regards and as you get older you may have a better feel for where the two fields mesh. Or maybe you won’t. Again, this is one of the big questions that no man truly has the answer for. 😃

The only other thing I will say is that CAF does have a restriction on threads involving evolution, as discussions tend to get pretty hairy, so just be careful.
 
Nothing in Catholic doctrine is in conflict with science. In fact, many devout Catholic clergy and lay people have had incredible contributions to various fields. For instance, a Catholic priest is the one who proposed the Big Bang Theory. You point out that the youth group is Baptist and they hold beliefs that are inconsistent with science. You are right to feel uneasy about that. God is responsible for all existence, and our universe has an incredible amount of order. To study the natural sciences is to seek understanding of that order. Any religion or denomination that dismisses science has made a serious mistake. It is an unfortunate misconception by many people that science and faith must be in conflict. It simply isn’t true.
 
Hello, Ashleigh! I am sorry to hear about your medical problems. I hope that you are seeing the best doctors and can manage those problems.

There is really no conflict between Catholicism and science, despite what some people will tell you. There are many scientists who are devout Catholics.

You have to be careful about attending a Baptist group. I understand your need for fellowship and friendship but you will encounter some ideas there at odds with Catholicism.
 
Congratulations! You just “discovered” theistic evolution.

What the Catholic Church teaches:
*God created everything.
*Adam and Eve existed.
*God directly created the human soul.
*Human death entered the world through original sin.

What the Catholic Church does NOT teach:
*How God created the world. Most Catholics seem to support theistic evolution (God created everything through evolution), but some actually support a literal 6-day creation week.
*Whether animals died before the Fall. This goes hand in hand with evolution. I’ve heard it argued that evolution must be false because it requires death, and death didn’t exist until the Fall. But at the same time, nowhere is it indicated that NOTHING died before the Fall.

And again, as RedFox pointed out, it was actually a Catholic priest (Msgr. Georges Lemaître) who first theorized the Big Bang. Before that, most secular scientists, Albert Einstein included, supported a steady-state universe– a universe that has always existed and always will.
 
AEPAG21 said:
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I also loooooooove science, I take biology in school and I love it. This semester we’ve learned about cells (mitosis and meiosis, organelles, etc.), DNA and RNA, and evolution. I’ve enjoyed learning about all this stuff, and thought natural selection, artificial selection and all of Darwin’s theories are pretty cool. It wasn’t until last night at my youth group (which is a Baptist youth group, even though I’m Catholic) we talked about science vs. christianity. We talked about what we believe about the creation, and how they all thought evolution was a pile of trash. I’m here believing that it was God who created a single plant cell and a single animal cell that eventually evolved into everything we see today. But they’re completely believing in what Genesis says about creation. I guess I kinda merged science and Christianity when it comes to creation. But I do kinda believe in evolution, because there is some proof. Just as much proof as there is God being real.
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Many Protestant sects, and even some Catholics, reject evolution because they feel it is a threat to their faith or that it contradicts what Genesis says. Though, actually, if you read the Genesis account carefully you’ll notice that the sequence of events pretty closely mirrors that of the modern biological account.
I’m currently torn between science and faith though. Like, I believe in many different things compared to what the bible says, because what I believe is what God has showed me. He wouldn’t have given me such a big interest in science - especially biology and cosmology - if I wasn’t meant to believe it.
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What you believe does not contradict the Bible at all.
My initial beliefs are:
• God created the universe, and a single animal cell, and a single plant cell on Earth. And evolution has kinda taken over from there, but evolution has still been guided by God, because how could nothing create things that are so complex and perfect, even if it’s just one trait at a time over million and billions of years. To me evolution makes a lot more sense than everything appearing in 6 days. But God still made it all happen.
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I, personally, don’t even subscribe to the belief that God directly created the first single-cell organism, in the sense that it was something He had to intervene in His creation to do. I believe that God is capable of creating a universe so finely tuned that it can give rise to life by the very laws and processes it Has been given by Him.

As Catholics, we are free to believe that. In fact St. Thomas Aquinas (considered a Doctor of the Church) went further than the most atheistic of biologists: Aquinas believed that new lifeforms were occasionally spontaneously generated from the dust of the earth by the sun. His basis for this belief were the passages in the creation narrative of Genesis which read: “And God said, 'Let the earth bring forth every [kind of animal. plant].” Here you can see that Genesis itself suggests that the created world had the potential to bring forth life from itself; the seeds of life are already planted in the universe.

I’m going to recommend a book to you that I think, given your love of God and science, you will enjoy immensely! It is entitled, appropriately enough, “God and Science.” 🙂 It’s written by an Orthodox Jewish physicist and Torah scholar named Gerald Schroeder. His comparison of the 6 days/15 billion years dichotomy of Genesis and modern cosmology is mind blowing. You’ll never look at Einstein’s theory of relativity the same again. 😉
• After we die, we live with Him. In paradise. So we don’t really die, it’s just our bodies, our shells, our disguises that die. Then we go to heaven and live in total peace with him and our loved ones.
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If we’re faithful to His word, then yes. Although, our bodies are not just “shells” or “disguises”. They are an integral part of who we are. This is why Catholics believe in the resurrection of the body!
But I’m also desperate to be close to him. I’ve read some devotionals out of a magazine I received last night, and read a couple on the internet. I want to say my faith is strong again. And are my beliefs strange? At my youth group last night they really didn’t agree or accept my beliefs about creation. Which I think is dumb because you should accept with everyone’s opinions because everyone has different opinions. It’s frustrating and makes me feel like I’m abandoning my faith even though God has a massive part in all my beliefs.
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As a Catholic, you should never gauge your own faith by Protestant standards. Even different Protestant sects have vastly different beliefs. The Catholic Church has never denied the possibility of evolution. Moreover, many of the greatest scientific discoveries in history have been made by Catholic priests and monks! To name a few recent ones: the big bang theory (developed by Fr. Georges Lemaitre) and genetics (Fr. Gregor Mendel), which played a large role in the development of evolutionary theory.

So, please, don’t fret! You’re in good company! The Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded, which He called “the pillar of truth.” You’ll find that the Catholic Church never stands opposed to reason.
 
Mike_from_NJ said:
The only other thing I will say is that CAF does have a restriction on threads involving evolution, as discussions tend to get pretty hairy, so just be careful.
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That is a good point about the banned discussion.

Science itself is far greater than any theory.
Science is a gift from God which has benefited society in many ways.
Science is all about nature, the marvelous environment around us.

What is important to remember is that the realm of science is the material, physical universe from bacteria to stars.

Faith is what unites us with the spiritual world of our Creator. We are capable of seeking and knowing God, our Creator. Faith teaches us that God personally made us in His image which means that we are both spiritual and material. Because of being in His image, we are called to share in His life, here on earth and eventually in joy eternal with Him in heaven.

Love is what unites us with God and love is what unites God with us. God’s love is what unites us with others.

Because the Catholic Church is founded by Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, it guides us in the spiritual realm so that we can better know, love and serve God and eventually reach the goal of eternal happiness “face to face” with Him in heaven.

We are unique creatures.
We are both spiritual and material, rational soul and material anatomy. We belong in both the scientific realm and the spiritual realm. Therefore, the place where science and faith intersect is in our own human nature. As long as science concentrates on the material, physical aspects of ourselves, there is not a problem. Since Catholics – you, me, everyone else including Catholic clergy – are intelligent beings, we learn about the realm of science and we contribute to it. However, the Catholic Church does not define doctrines about strictly scientific matters.

What the Catholic Church does define is all about God and humans because we are also in the spiritual realm of God. The basic Catholic doctrine is that God is the Creator of everything. How God created our material universe is not defined in details. On the other hand, God does present details about our human nature because He created us to be with Him. This means that the complete, full knowledge about ourselves is simply beyond science. Science, by definition, cannot give us answers about the spiritual world of God.

We need to respect the dedicated men and women in science. In addition, we have to remember that their expertise is limited to the material, physical world and to our decomposing anatomies. Obviously, scientists can and do seek knowledge about God and human life. Unfortunately, interpreters of science can deny God and the spiritual soul. That is where we hold fast to Catholic teachings.

Divine Revelation trumps.
 
The first thing to understand to about the Catholic Church is that She is very open to scientific discoveries.

That being said, as a scientist myself, when issues like evolution, global warming or gay “marriage” come up, you need to be careful of people who have an agenda and will sacrifice science for their own political or personal gain.

The main difference between faith and science (and why they are filed differently in the library) is that faith is about believing. Science is about repeatable results from experiments.
The Catholic Church strives for one goal": the Truth.

Regarding Genesis, most clergy I have heard speak on the topic say a Catholic does not need to take every single word and passage in the Bible literally, and not just with the story of Creation, either. Revelation, for instance, is loaded with symbolism. The premise of Genesis, that we came from “dust” is exactly in line with evolution.

I don’t about evolution “being a pile of trash”, it’s a theory, but it has meandered its way into biological sciences textbooks at least in party because it lead to the creation of a taxonomic system that is convenient to classify organisms, not because it’s an absolute truth.

The problem I have with evolutionists is that some of them are closed-minded and use the theory of evolution to disown God and live their own selfish lives absent of faith. :rolleyes: There’s no room for discussion of that in science. Some folks can also be downright hostile towards Creationism or the theory of Panspermia.

I also have concerns about folks, mostly Protestants who think they need to take everything in the Bible so literally. There’s a negative feedback loop with that on other issues like gay “marriage” with the excuse that “but Jesus didn’t talk about it, so I guess maybe it’s okay”. :rolleyes:

I think it’s really important for you to consider this, because really you’re not a little kid anymore and are at the age where these questions come up and it’s important to have the Gift of knowledge from the Holy Spirit. 👍

Finally, always be careful with what you read on-line. I grew up with the internet and there’s a lot of garbage on it.

And did you know that a Catholic priest coined the Big Bang theory?😃
 
St. Augustine was one of the first Christians to propose theistic evolution. To be fair, he was one of the first people to propose the concept of evolution.

Being a person with a strong background in Biology and Psychology, the whole faith vs. science seems like a big trap. There are those who try to present that believing in faith is irrational and only believers in science are rational. The other side will try to make one feel like they are being lukewarm or rejecting Christ if they accept scientific findings. History speaks very differently about this, there have been many great thinkers and scientists who were easily able to reconcile faith and science. However there seems to be a current popular phenomena where academics and regular people are being divided and feel like they have to choose between one or the other.

The best I can say is that there are many possible origins to our current situation. In the 1890’s there was a small but growing movement to reject the Bible as historically accurate (This group has become the domineering majority in historical circles currently). Our system is based on the Greek model of thinking in which many Philosophers rejected the polytheistic thinking, whereas the Islamic model allowed many great scientific advances during the Middle Ages with no divide between science and faith. Psychology has attempted to overshadow faith and it has become the place holder to rationalizing away human experience. The reality is Psychology’s sole purpose is to identify the patterns of maladaptive behaviors and possible mental mechanisms which caused it. Instead people try to hide behind the poorly understood field and make horribly inaccurate statements about what faith is. There is more but hopefully you get the idea about what is transpiring.

Using history as a guide this is not a permanent state of affairs but just one extreme of the pendulum swing. There are a lot of people who do not understand the consequences of their actions and right now they feel the most freeing thing to do is reject faith. The current replacement is science. Ultimately, as society devolves back into its pre-Christian roots we will have a well documented historical case for what happens to a society that believes science is a viable alternative to faith. There is already a lot of hints already based on the past fifty years what is in store for this model of thinking including the idea harvesting the unborn for use as medical tools (the now defunct argument for embryonic stem cells) to psychological studies trying to rationalize incest and pedophilia (popular during the 1960’s and few if any of the people involved faced any sort of criminal charges for their heinous behavior in the name of science).

God Bless
 
First off WELCOME TO CAF 🙂

Science and Catholicism are not in conflict.

One of my favorite religious orders the Jesuits have discovered many things in science.

If you didn’t know the Vatican actually has an observatory where priests (mostly Jesuits) who are also scientists do research in astronomy and also contain some of the oldest scientific writings in the world.

If you are interested in science there is a science group on here if you wanted to join.
 
SinnersAnonymus said:
St. Augustine was one of the first Christians to propose theistic evolution. To be fair, he was one of the first people to propose the concept of evolution.

Being a person with a strong background in Biology and Psychology, the whole faith vs. science seems like a big trap. There are those who try to present that believing in faith is irrational and only believers in science are rational. The other side will try to make one feel like they are being lukewarm or rejecting Christ if they accept scientific findings. History speaks very differently about this, there have been many great thinkers and scientists who were easily able to reconcile faith and science. However there seems to be a current popular phenomena where academics and regular people are being divided and feel like they have to choose between one or the other.

The best I can say is that there are many possible origins to our current situation. In the 1890’s there was a small but growing movement to reject the Bible as historically accurate (This group has become the domineering majority in historical circles currently). Our system is based on the Greek model of thinking in which many Philosophers rejected the polytheistic thinking, whereas the Islamic model allowed many great scientific advances during the Middle Ages with no divide between science and faith. Psychology has attempted to overshadow faith and it has become the place holder to rationalizing away human experience. The reality is Psychology’s sole purpose is to identify the patterns of maladaptive behaviors and possible mental mechanisms which caused it. Instead people try to hide behind the poorly understood field and make horribly inaccurate statements about what faith is. There is more but hopefully you get the idea about what is transpiring.

Using history as a guide this is not a permanent state of affairs but just one extreme of the pendulum swing. There are a lot of people who do not understand the consequences of their actions and right now they feel the most freeing thing to do is reject faith. The current replacement is science. Ultimately, as society devolves back into its pre-Christian roots we will have a well documented historical case for what happens to a society that believes science is a viable alternative to faith. There is already a lot of hints already based on the past fifty years what is in store for this model of thinking including the idea harvesting the unborn for use as medical tools (the now defunct argument for embryonic stem cells) to psychological studies trying to rationalize incest and pedophilia (popular during the 1960’s and few if any of the people involved faced any sort of criminal charges for their heinous behavior in the name of science).

God Bless
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It’s a trap alright, and your concerns are all valid.
 
The Bible is not a science book. It is a spiritual book. People who don’t understand science think or project their scientific ignorance onto the Bible and quote from it as if it was scientific theory.
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Yes, it is amazing to see God’s great work in Evolution.
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You are being guided and seem to be a dedicated disciple. What you are going through now will help others with your guidance later. God is talking to you and knows you better than you do. The hard part is listening and following God’s wisdom. I find it is easier to go inside to hear and be with Our Lord. He is always there no matter what.
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As individuals we are evolving human beings so Christians should embrace evolution. We can’t just be sinners for life.
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Christians need to evolve.I hope we all become better.
 
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