Faith

[edwinG]

miguel delgado:

CONFORT ZONE OF RULES??? WHO SAYS RULES ARE CONFORTABLE??? does your church have rules??’ it must have,

Hi miguel delgado,
I can picture you sitting there being astounded.
If you think rules are uncomfortable try walking by faith. It is like stepping out over a precipice. But oh the joy when one does. And the more you do it the more your faith grows. When you start you are maybe 6 inches off the ground.
Join in the adventure which is life in Christ.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Church_Militant]

If the confession is done to a priest, I feel some of the benefit is lost. Say in this instance ,you jimmy, instead of confessing here, did it in the presence of a priest, the effect would be limited. I for one would be unaware and other people reading these posts would not have gained from your great example and your courage.

The sin is still confessed…Edwin you need to read up on what the sacrament of reconcillaition is all about. In the context of “faith”, how do you explain this passage?

John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Pax vobiscum,

 

[edwinG]

Lisa4Catholics:

Edwin I do not know WHAT you thought you heard but I have NEVER heard of 2,000 rules on EWTN! If you are not saying we worship Mary,you are in some other way trying to say we aren’t really Christians:nope: Stop!I believe in GOD the Father Almighty,Creator of Heaven and Earth,I believe in Jesus Christ His only son,our Lord,who was conceived of the HOLY SPIRIT born of the Virgin Mary,He suffered under pontious Pilate was crucified died and was buried he descended to the dead,on the third day He rose again,He ascended in to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father,from there he shall come to judge the living and the dead,I beleive in the Holy Spirit the Holy Catholic Church,the communion of the saints ,the forgiveness of sins,the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.AMEN
Now what do you not agree with Edwin?

Hi Lisa4Catholics,
I disagree with this quote from your post. " You, are in some other way trying to say we aren’t really Christians."
This is totally false.
I assume you have no good charge against me so you have had to make one up.
Hebrews 7:22 By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant 23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing 24 But He , because He continues forever has an unchangeable priesthood 25 There He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Tell me Lisa , what do you make of this scripture.that which is highlighted.

Is the new covenant one which is in our mind and in our heart.

If this is so, why do we need a book of rules. We have them in our heart and in our minds and we have Holy Scripture and we have the Holy Spirit who will lead us to all truth if you have faith and trust in Him.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

eddie:

The blessed Trinity has three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and of course God the Holy Spirit! Father and Son are both Males hence the pronoun, He or Him but also it was the Holy Spirit whose visit to our Holy Mother conceived our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So is it right and correct to say that God Himself, beyond gender has always revealed Himself to us as Man, God the Father and God the Son?

Hi eddie,
I dont understand your question in the context of this thread.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Huiou Theou:

Faith is either nothing or it is a work which earns nothing.
Whatever faith is, (the substance of hope), it is a gift.

If Someone has an expensive item that no one in a particular neighborhood could buy, and they place it on the front porch with a sign that says ‘FREE’. It is clearly a gift. Very clearly a gift.

Yet, no one gets that free gift without doing a work.
They must pick it up: hence they work for it.

But anyone who received such a gift and then had the conceit to say
‘I earned it’ because I worked for it! is a fool.
And the owner of the gift would be justified in saying that it is free, but not for you.

Edwin, Faith is a petty work. You must believe.

Hi Huiou Theou,
Can you show me scripture where it shows that faith is a **petty **work. If you can’t I dont believe you.

walk in love
edwinG

 

[TheGarg]

TheGarg:

Beautiful, and since you feel this way, Why do prots think that you can seperate the two for salvation???..

Christ Himself said “Faith without works is DEAD”…because if you seperate the two, niether can exist…??

edwin, i sincerely would like to hear your (name removed by moderator)ut on post 36…or my comment from it as quoted…

 

[edwinG]

slinky1882:

Edwin,
As asked before, where do you get the “2000 rules” from???

Hi slinky1882
As stated before, from an EWTN broadcast during talks about Pope John Paul 11. I think they were talking about the catechism, but I am not sure, but as stated previously the Roman Catholics should be able to tell me. As a matter of interest how many rules are in the catechism?

No one on this forum is denying the that Faith and works go together. Grace comes first as God’s free gift. I have a question related to your last line. Do you believe that Truth is universal (always true), necessary (has to be true) and objective (reveals something about objective reality)??? Traditional morality says that some acts were always wrong, for everybody, in all situations and in all times. (i.e. like murder, lying, cheating, stealing, etc.). Can God change His Mind and say that murder ceases to be wrong at some point in the future??? God theoretically can change His Mind, but He won’t. How is one to know how to “Follow the Holy Spirit” in timeless Truth??? Surely, you are not claiming that all can be derived from Scripture (Sola Scriptura) or Sola Fidei. If so, why are there so many Protestant Denominations??? Or why do some churches condemn abortion and other do not (and there are many other examples of this)??? Curious how anyone can “Follow the Holy Spirit” without Divinely protected authoritative help. Thanks and God Bless.

Hi again slinky1882,
Well no one can follow the Holy Spirit without Divinely Protected Authoritative Help. For that is what the Holy Spirit is.
Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 and having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Well I guess that is a start.

Why are there so many denominations. In this I include Roman Catholics.

There are so many because God in His wisdom has not given all knowledge to any one group. Each group is a mixture of truth and falsehood, but I imagine all groups have the basic requirements. It is also God’s wisdom that eventually all will bow to Jesus and that will leave only works. I am sure some members of a lost tribe in South America etc managed to follow the Holy Spirit even if the tribe was heathen.
God also does not want a group of robots. We are people with personalities, attracted to and repulsed by certain ideas and personalities. He gives us freedmon to choose. We will be judged on what we do, our works, but remember if your works are not done according to the Holy Spirit they are lawlessness. And our works will determine our position in heaven, whether He will put you in charge of much or little or none. The more you follow the leading of the Holy Spirit the greater works you will have. I want a position of responsibility in heaven.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

slinky1882:

Ahhhh, but the Church teaches to seek the forgiveness of the individual harmed and God’s forgiveness. When we sin against our brothers and sisters, the sin fronts God as well. We are to seek the forgiveness of both. And what are we to do when we harm a stranger we are never to see again, what then??? Please see the below tract, for the Scriptural evidence for the Sacrament of Confession and an explanation. Should you have any questions do ask. Thanks and God Bless.

catholic.com/library/Forgiveness_of_Sins.asp

Hi slinky 1882,
I fully agree that in every case we should also seek His forgiveness. God is alive to me and He hears my voice, knows what is in my heart and it is to Him I confess as well as to the person offended if that person is able to be reached.
When you make a confession to a priest in a confessional and you neither see the priest nor he sees you what is the difference between this act and in confessing to God whom you can’t see?
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[LtTony]

The faith vs. works debate always perplexes me. IT SEEMS YOU ARE ALL SAYING THE SAME THING, just differently. It’s semantics. It appears we all agree that you can’t have one without the other. It’s pretty clear to me in Scripture. The details, the fine tuning is what is being discussed here. Am I the only one who feels this way??

For some time I have wanted to read the joint declaration of Lutherans and Catholics on justification. Maybe I should do that tonight.

Jim

 

[edwinG]

TheGarg:

Beautiful, and since you feel this way, Why do prots think that you can seperate the two for salvation???..

Christ Himself said “Faith without works is DEAD”…because if you seperate the two, niether can exist…??

Hi The Garg,
I dont understand. Can you give me an example of the separation of faith and works. To me it is by faith that we are able to respond to the request from the Holy Spirit.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[jax8686]

Now if you transpose that to the Roman Catholic catechism do you think this cathchism would lead a person to marry a non catholic

Edwin, where did you ever find the Chatechism saying you cant marry a non catholic?? it says to be careful so you dont fall away from the truth of the Catholic church, but it says nothing about not doing it, or whatever you may be suggesting… sure the Holy spirit is always working… and guiding, but you must do the work of accepting that guidance. faith is a gift, and then in having faith, you are once again doing a work… and althogh Chipper may be expanding the horizon a bit, it kinda sheds light on the fact that faith isnt above works, but beside it… its kinda like a pyramid, Grace , the saving kind, is on top, and below it, equal and side by each, is Faith and Works, faith without works is dead, but works without faith are empty, you need both for a solid foundation to access Gods grace…

Can you show me scripture where it shows that faith is a **petty **work. If you can’t I dont believe you.

…?? once again, just like the faith vs grace, youve taking to scripture vs tradition… you think every word, deed, sign, miracle, bathroom break, and meal of Jesus were in the bible??? you tell me where it says faith is enough, where faith is more important and faith saves… and without taking it out of context like most “proving” verses are…

If this is so, why do we need a book of rules

why do you call it a book of rules like its a bad thing??? what about the stones of rules in the OT? and like someone mentioned earlier, we follow two rules, ones that Jesus gave us himself in the Bible. this “book of rules” is an interpretation of the scriptures, guided by the holy spirit, without error, so that we may live more freely within the truth, rather than scratching blindly at the bible claiming we are being guided while the next tom, dick, and harry, all claim the same, and give 3 different answers… shouldnt faith in the spirit, and guidance flowing from that faith give all protestants the same answer…

Romans 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned

i say again… to doubt, is to be human… untill we do the work of accepting Jesus, which GRACE allows us to do, with faith, are we not condemned?.. thank you for supporting my argument with that lovely verse tho

The question is does a person do these things through faith or because of obedience to some rules.

we do them cuz there true… Jesus promised he would be with us always, and guide us, with his successors of peter most especially, and because these “rules” as you like to call them, are infallible interpretations of scripture, we follow them because the Grace of God allows

If you think rules are uncomfortable try walking by faith

i didnt read any one saying rules are uncomfortable, but i did get the point that rules are there to help us, not hinder us, and as sure as the sun shines in the day, there must be rules within your church as well, which is to say that your criticizing our “book of rules” is only hypocrytica, rules are everywhere, ours are nicely written out so everyone can see and know what we truly beleive, and so there is clarity and understaning

sorry for taking so long to reply, i was gone on the road for the weekend http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

 

[edwinG]

Lisa4Catholics:

And Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on them and said",Go,forgive mens sins:nope: whose sins YOU forgive are forgiven them:nope: Whose sins you hold bound are held bound."He was Talking to the apostles Jesus’ Bishops who layed on hands and appointed priests Edwin He did not give the power to absolve sins to everyone.:nope:

Hi Lisa4Catholics,
This quote regards supernatural healing through divine forgiveness. Only God can do this and these apostles were given this authority to completely forgive.
When you and I forgive someone we are aiding their healing and stopping satan from taking a foothold in our lives by not holding on to some unforgiveness which eats away at us, but only on an individual basis. For the person to be completely healed everyone would have to forgive them, completely. Their sin against us is not the sum total of their sins, I imagine. Of course we also read that some people are ill for the glory of God, not because of sin. We who lack understanding cant tell.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Huiou_Theou]

edwinG:

Hi Huiou Theou,
Can you show me scripture where it shows that faith is a **petty **work. If you can’t I dont believe you.

walk in love
edwinG

All right Edwin, what kind of work is it?

Abraham did it, he BELIEVED, therefore he DID it.
It is a work, something to DO.
It is all over scripture.

 

[jax8686]

Why are there so many denominations. In this I include Roman Catholics.

if you truly include RC as just another denomonation, then you obviously know nothign about history, and dont understand that it was the first one, the right one, and the truth… im not sure, could you tell me if your church claims to be the pillar and foundation of truth, and can support that… mine can…and last i checked, martin luther split off of the RCC…

When you make a confession to a priest in a confessional and you neither see the priest nor he sees you what is the difference between this act and in confessing to God whom you can’t see

ummm… i always thought they can see you… but then again… im just Catholic… i wouldnt konw what i beleive… so please keep teaching me…
oh, and there are sooo many denomontaions cuz good old humans, being deceived and tempted by Satan, as usual, werent happy with the truth, one wasnt good enough, they need more, and more, why change to suit the true church??? no, lets change the church, make our own, so it will be our own little comfort zone of made up rules… and yeah, i still think your misinformed about our 2000 rules… as for the chatechism, there are 2865 paragraphs… and as i said before… interpretations of scripture… not just rules…

 

[edwinG]

Church Militant:

The sin is still confessed…Edwin you need to read up on what the sacrament of reconcillaition is all about. In the context of “faith”, how do you explain this passage?

John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Pax vobiscum,

Hi Church Militant,
Yes the sin may still be confessed, but the fact that slinky1882 had the faith to confess here gave so much more meaning and value to his act. I for one was edifyied and I bet he was too. It is a victory over evil to be able to stand up like that and everyone gains. It is also a marvelous example and an act we should pursue with vigor. Think how careful we become knowing that if we have bad words or actions against someone or harbour and maintain bad thoughts that we need to , in humility , approach them, confess and ask forgiveness. Man that would be a powerful brake on our thoughts and actions. Praise God in His wisdom.

I dont understand your question regarding faith on the quote from John, I presume you mean on the underlined portion.
This is the word speaking out. The apostles were being commissioned and sent out. The Holy Spirit was given because Christ was going away and the apostles needed to be born again in the spirit. They wouldnt receive the Fire until Pentecost.This is the " Promise of My Father upon you"
They were told to wait for this event before going out Luke 24:49
After receiving the Fire from the Holy Spirit the apostles went out as commissioned ( the Promise) and exercising their faith obeyed the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I hope this is the answer you were seeking
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

LtTony:

The faith vs. works debate always perplexes me. IT SEEMS YOU ARE ALL SAYING THE SAME THING, just differently. It’s semantics. It appears we all agree that you can’t have one without the other. It’s pretty clear to me in Scripture. The details, the fine tuning is what is being discussed here. Am I the only one who feels this way??

For some time I have wanted to read the joint declaration of Lutherans and Catholics on justification. Maybe I should do that tonight.

Jim

Hi LtTony,
Yes you are correct from my point of view but people have different biases and many tend towards the importants of works. Yes we cant have one without the other but the point is that faith preceeds works. If a person has faith he MUST have works. The works prove his faith. But if you look at a person who has works, this is not necessarily a sign of faith. See how Jesus rejected some people who cast out demons in His name saying they were practising lawlessness.
So it is not really fine tuning but extremenly important that the distinction is made.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

jax8686:

Edwin, where did you ever find the Chatechism saying you cant marry a non catholic?? it says to be careful so you dont fall away from the truth of the Catholic church, but it says nothing about not doing it, or whatever you may be suggesting… sure the Holy spirit is always working… and guiding, but you must do the work of accepting that guidance. faith is a gift, and then in having faith, you are once again doing a work… and althogh Chipper may be expanding the horizon a bit, it kinda sheds light on the fact that faith isnt above works, but beside it… its kinda like a pyramid, Grace , the saving kind, is on top, and below it, equal and side by each, is Faith and Works, faith without works is dead, but works without faith are empty, you need both for a solid foundation to access Gods grace… …?? once again, just like the faith vs grace, youve taking to scripture vs tradition… you think every word, deed, sign, miracle, bathroom break, and meal of Jesus were in the bible??? you tell me where it says faith is enough, where faith is more important and faith saves… and without taking it out of context like most “proving” verses are… why do you call it a book of rules like its a bad thing??? what about the stones of rules in the OT? and like someone mentioned earlier, we follow two rules, ones that Jesus gave us himself in the Bible. this “book of rules” is an interpretation of the scriptures, guided by the holy spirit, without error, so that we may live more freely within the truth, rather than scratching blindly at the bible claiming we are being guided while the next tom, dick, and harry, all claim the same, and give 3 different answers… shouldnt faith in the spirit, and guidance flowing from that faith give all protestants the same answer… i say again… to doubt, is to be human… untill we do the work of accepting Jesus, which GRACE allows us to do, with faith, are we not condemned?.. thank you for supporting my argument with that lovely verse tho we do them cuz there true… Jesus promised he would be with us always, and guide us, with his successors of peter most especially, and because these “rules” as you like to call them, are infallible interpretations of scripture, we follow them because the Grace of God allows i didnt read any one saying rules are uncomfortable, but i did get the point that rules are there to help us, not hinder us, and as sure as the sun shines in the day, there must be rules within your church as well, which is to say that your criticizing our “book of rules” is only hypocrytica, rules are everywhere, ours are nicely written out so everyone can see and know what we truly beleive, and so there is clarity and understaning

sorry for taking so long to reply, i was gone on the road for the weekend http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

Hi jax8686,
No problems,
I have not paused on my journey down this list today.
I guess we have covered all of these points today so for the sake of time, I will leave this answer to the above posts.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[slinky1882]

edwinG:

Hi Church Militant,
Yes the sin may still be confessed, but the fact that slinky1882 had the faith to confess here gave so much more meaning and value to his act. I for one was edifyied and I bet he was too. It is a victory over evil to be able to stand up like that and everyone gains. It is also a marvelous example and an act we should pursue with vigor. Think how careful we become knowing that if we have bad words or actions against someone or harbour and maintain bad thoughts that we need to , in humility , approach them, confess and ask forgiveness. Man that would be a powerful brake on our thoughts and actions. Praise God in His wisdom.

I dont understand your question regarding faith on the quote from John, I presume you mean on the underlined portion.
This is the word speaking out. The apostles were being commissioned and sent out. The Holy Spirit was given because Christ was going away and the apostles needed to be born again in the spirit. They wouldnt receive the Fire until Pentecost.This is the " Promise of My Father upon you"
They were told to wait for this event before going out Luke 24:49
After receiving the Fire from the Holy Spirit the apostles went out as commissioned ( the Promise) and exercising their faith obeyed the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I hope this is the answer you were seeking
walk in love
edwinG

Edwin,
Excuse me, but what/when did I confess here??? Thanks and God Bless.

 

[edwinG]

Huiou Theou:

All right Edwin, what kind of work is it?

Abraham did it, he BELIEVED, therefore he DID it.
It is a work, something to DO.
It is all over scripture.

Hi Huiou Theou,
This is your quote that is in block.
Edwin, Faith is a petty work. You must believe.

So are you telling me that Abraham’s work was petty.
I believe that “faith” and “belief” are different parts of the same word, but that faith also contains the element of trust.
I am confident that Abraham not only believed God but he also trusted Him.
And you are calling this petty?
Surely somehow I am mistaken.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

slinky1882:

Edwin,
Excuse me, but what/when did I confess here??? Thanks and God Bless.

Hi slinky1882,
My apology, it was jimmy on post 20.
My apologies to you as well jimmy.
walk in love
edwinG