Faith

[edwinG]

J.W.B.:

I’m glad to hear you say in your previous post that God’s blessings are for “those who OBEY Him.” Yes, every single one of our good works result from the Holy Spirit. It brings us faith AND good works. Faith itself is a work:

“And this is His COMMANDMENT, That we should BELIEVE on the name of His son, Jesus Christ, as He gave us COMMANDMENT,” 1- 'st John 3:23.

“Then they said to Him, ‘What must we do to do the WORKS of God?’ Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the WORK of God, the ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.” John 6:28-29.

“Remembering without ceasing your WORK of FAITH…” 1’st Thessalonians 1:3.

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now COMMANDETH all men every where to REPENT.” Acts 17:30.

It is all something that WE appear to be doing, whether it’s a prayer, repenting (making up in our minds that we will turn away from sin) deciding that we do believe in Christ, giving to the poor, etc. Yet within all of this and all of ourselves, the Holy Spirit is doing these things through us. We are merely cooperating with God. God works all Faith and works within us and we can take no part in any credit for it. As St. Agustine said “God crowns His own merits.”

There are many NON-Christians out there who have a better stand in before God than many other self-rightoues Christians have. The problem for Christians is they have a hard time living as Christ did and seem to care more about a “who’s right” and “who’s wrong” doctrine. I would rather have a heart of compassion than a mind of a genuiess.

God give you peace.

Hi J.W.B.
I agree with you.
Do you see the difference between, works done unknowingly, ( following the Holy Spirit passively,without knowledge) and actively ( knowing that the Holy Spirit is directing you and obeying that direction because of your faith.) See above where I followed a leading from an evil spirit 3 times, but after I confessed, within minutes, the realisation was given to me that I was being tested to see if I would act as I spoke. That is to confess to the ones you have wronged.
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Philthy:

Hi Edwin - IThe “2000” rules are the paragraph numbers

Hi Philthy,
Your name has me smiling, but words do count for so much. Maybe a change to 1SPhlthy.
You are the first person to explain it to me in a way that locks in the truth believably. Getting a copy would scare me. The reason being that it would be full of good words, and very enticing. I was so impressed by the strength of words on obeying the sabbath in the Jewish fashion that I tried it. I dont want to go through that learning process again. I can testify that Holy fear and reverence are absolutely necessary to my life. Reading rules can be very comforting to me whereas stepping out into the unknown is always a step out from ones comfort zone and often at an inconvenient time. Following the flesh is to me living by the rules which are good but living by the leading of the Holy Spirit is living by faith, trusting Him, by acknowledging He is alive, by acknowledging He is able to communicate to us, by acknowleging this by doing what He tells us to do. I want my obedience to be to Him, not to rules. By obeying Him, I know He wont lead me to forsake the good rules.
I want to actively participate in His plan for my life.

The Catholic church does not teach salvation by works apart from faith - get over it.

Now I have a question for you: How, exactly, do you know that you yourself have faith? If your faith is less than perfect, how do you know this?
, An example may be a fruit tree. I see the tree as faith and the fruit as works. Now I cant pick up apples off the ground if there is no tree ( faith) Apples dont happen without a tree. But all apple trees do not produce apples. So if the faith (tree) does not produce apples ( works ) it is dead. Pull it out and throw it in the fire. The part highlighted. The Catholic Church etc etc . This to me is great news.
To answer your question. The second part first. My faith is not perfect and never can be.
How do I know I have faith. I know because I exercise it when it is convenient and when it is not. For an example of when it is not, see my confession. I believed at 6 oclock in the morning after going to bed at about 3.30, but I climbed out of bed and caught a bus going I know not where. It turned out to be a false leading but it was still a spiritual leading. The reason was later revealed to me. I do this every day, if a thought comes into my head and has “this feeling about it” by practise, I obey it if it isnt against scripture. He is alive and knows what is happening. He knows I am going to obey the leading so I trust in Him, that He will protect me from false leadings. In my confession the false leading was alllowed to happen to test me. God tests and prunes and disciplines those He loves.

. In addition, he tells us that if we don’t forgive others their sins against us, then neither will our Heavenly Father forgive us our sins.

Phil

I could write so much in response to this. It is just so alive with the word.
I feel it is best to just reply to the portion of forgive others to obtain forgiveness. This is so true and therefore
If you want love, love others. if you want to receive, give. if you want to be lifted up, ie a better job, let others go before you. ie stand aside, dont promote yourself, stand aside, then Christ will promote you. If you want health, start by healing yourself, by living properly, doing those things which you know in your heart are right. I used to be an acupuncturist and a doctor once said, no one comes and says, Doctor what can I stop doing to be better. Everyone says what can you give me to make me better. Christ will test your prayers against you to see if you are genuine and sincere. I asked the Holy Spirit to not let our pamphlets be wasted so when I was finished handing them out, I saw some in shopping trolleys. Now I know He was testing me. If I had left them there, I would have been a hypocrit.I ask Him not to waste them but I waste them my self. Our prayers are tested for sincerity.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Huiou Theou:

Waiting for God to tell you to do what you already know you should do isn’t the best plan. It can be putting God to the test. You yourself will be tested often if you do that.
.

Hi Huiou Theou,
I like these words. I will need to meditate on them and see how significant they are in my life.
Thank you for them
walk in love
edwinG

 

[J.W.B]

To be technical, but also simple, Faith is giving your WHOLE life to Christ. It’s NOT “I believe that Christ died for my sins and was raised to life the third day and has forgiven me of my sins,” and then the very next day the individual STILL continues in his/her sins. Faith is “I believe Christ died for my sins and was raised to life on the third day and I shall now follow Him,” and the individual ABANDONS his/her sins and follows Christ. That is SAVING FAITH brought about by the Spirit and the WORKS follow it as well because of the Spirit. Like the rich man who asked Christ what shall he do to inherit eternal life and Christ told him to do a WORK, “…sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.” Luke 18:18-22. He didn’t say “Realize that the commandments have nothing to do with your salvation but only have faith alone in me alone and you shall have riches in heaven…Oh how hard it is for a rich man to enter into heaven because he has not faith alone in me alone…” Christ asked him to perform a WORK, He attacked his heart, the rich man may have believed in Christ, but his heart was not in it for following Christ. If he would have given his riches to the poor with HEART FELT DEVOTION that would have been a beautiful work, but he did not as far as the Holy Scriptures go. If he would have had TRUE FAITH in Christ he would have listened and obeyed.

Usualy, belief does come first by the Holy Spirit, but in my story of the woman the Holy Spirit was bringing about good works BEFORE she even knew that Christ exsisted.

So simply, it’s SAVING FAITH that we must posses. Not faith alone OR works alone, but FAITH in Christ. True Faith is believing in who Christ said He was and obeying everything He taught and both of this comes about by the Holy Spirit. “…No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the Kingdom of God,” Luke 9:62. Let us continue the race until we meet our Lord, Jesus Christ.

God give you peace

 

[Philthy]

edwinG:

Hi Philthy,
Your name has me smiling, but words do count for so much. Maybe a change to 1SPhlthy.

It was a nickname given to me a long time ago because I used to get so dirty at work - nothing more.

edwinG:
You are the first person to explain it to me in a way that locks in the truth believably. Getting a copy would scare me. The reason being that it would be full of good words, and very enticing.

Up to this point in your response I followed you. After this I couldn’t follow what you were getting at. Were you trying to say not to focus so much on rules but on the leading of the holy Spirit?

edwinG:
I want to actively participate in His plan for my life.

Excellent - when you do you can rest assured that you are one of the faithful. Until then…very risky.

edwinG:

An example may be a fruit tree. I see the tree as faith and the fruit as works. But all apple trees do not produce apples. So if the faith (tree) does not produce apples ( works ) it is dead. Pull it out and throw it in the fire.

I will go one step further and say that “A tree is known by its fruit” and that if a tree doesn’t produce apples it will not be known by Christ as an apple tree. To step out of the analogy, if someone is not producing fruit they will not be considered faithful. Other than this little clarification I’ve added the analogy is good. It strongly supports the Catholic and biblical position that salvation is not by faith alone.

edwinG:
The part highlighted. The Catholic Church etc etc . This to me is great news.

Yes I can sense your intense enthusiasm!

edwinG:

To answer your question. The second part first. My faith is not perfect and never can be.
How do I know I have faith. I know because I exercise it when it is convenient and when it is not.

In other words you WORK it out! Way to go Ed!!! I agree that your own works are the best indication to you, yourself, that you have faith.

edwinG:
For an example of when it is not, see my confession. I believed at 6 oclock in the morning after going to bed at about 3.30, but I climbed out of bed and caught a bus WORK! going I know not where. It turned out to be a false leading but it was still a spiritual leading. The reason was later revealed to me. I do this every day, if a thought comes into my head and has “this feeling about it” by practise, I obey WORK! it if it isnt against scripture. He is alive and knows what is happening. He knows I am going to obey the leading so I trust in Him, that He will protect me from false leadings. In my confession the false leading was alllowed to happen to test me. God tests and prunes and disciplines those He loves.

edwinG:
I could write so much in response to this. It is just so alive with the word.
I feel it is best to just reply to the portion of forgive others to obtain forgiveness. This is so true and therefore
If you want love, love others. if you want to receive, give. if you want to be lifted up, ie a better job, let others go before you. ie stand aside, dont promote yourself, stand aside, then Christ will promote you. If you want health, start by healing yourself, by living properly, doing those things which you know in your heart are right.

Beautiful Edwin…you have lived. Thank you for sharing

Phil

 

[edwinG]

J.W.B.:

To be technical, but also simple, Faith is giving your WHOLE life to Christ. It’s NOT “I believe that Christ died for my sins and was raised to life the third day and has forgiven me of my sins,” and then the very next day the individual STILL continues in his/her sins. Faith is “I believe Christ died for my sins and was raised to life on the third day and I shall now follow Him,” and the individual ABANDONS his/her sins and follows Christ. That is SAVING FAITH brought about by the Spirit and the WORKS follow it as well because of the Spirit. Like the rich man who asked Christ what shall he do to inherit eternal life and Christ told him to do a WORK, “…sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.” Luke 18:18-22. He didn’t say “Realize that the commandments have nothing to do with your salvation but only have faith alone in me alone and you shall have riches in heaven…Oh how hard it is for a rich man to enter into heaven because he has not faith alone in me alone…” Christ asked him to perform a WORK, He attacked his heart, the rich man may have believed in Christ, but his heart was not in it for following Christ. If he would have given his riches to the poor with HEART FELT DEVOTION that would have been a beautiful work, but he did not as far as the Holy Scriptures go. If he would have had TRUE FAITH in Christ he would have listened and obeyed.

Usualy, belief does come first by the Holy Spirit, but in my story of the woman the Holy Spirit was bringing about good works BEFORE she even knew that Christ exsisted.

So simply, it’s SAVING FAITH that we must posses. Not faith alone OR works alone, but FAITH in Christ. True Faith is believing in who Christ said He was and obeying everything He taught and both of this comes about by the Holy Spirit. “…No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the Kingdom of God,” Luke 9:62. Let us continue the race until we meet our Lord, Jesus Christ.

God give you peace

Hi J.W.B.,
Great post. I liked the illustration where the rich man did not have faith so because of his lack of faith he could not do the necessary work. Yet this man obeyed all the rules.
This is so good, it is worth typing out.
Matthew 19:20 " The young man said to Him, ’ All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying , he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
Matthew 19:23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, " Assuredl, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:23 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
I do think the word ‘perfect’ should also be taken into account, but I am not sure how much emphasis should be placed on it regarding being saved as opposed to having an ultimate glorious position in the kingdom of God.
But without any doubt, following all of the rules won’t completely satisfy God, not that following the rules is at all possible. The jews showed us that over more than a thousand years.
wonderful post J.W.B.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Philthy:

Up to this point in your response I followed you. After this I couldn’t follow what you were getting at. Were you trying to say not to focus so much on rules but on the leading of the holy Spirit?
Yes the rules read so well and ring so truthfully and are easy to grasp that it seems like a safer option. I suppose like most people I like things nailed to the wall, with boundaries,and a good set of rules that pleases my heart are a huge temptation to follow. I followed the “obey the Sabbath” and had a lesson, one of many beautiful lessons, but the lesson as well as many others taught me a Holy Fear and Reverence of our Beautiful Almighty so Wise God. I am not going back to obeying rules. And I am not going to tempt myself by reading them. I know they will sound good.

I will go one step further and say that “A tree is known by its fruit” and that if a tree doesn’t produce apples it will not be known by Christ as an apple tree. To step out of the analogy, if someone is not producing fruit they will not be considered faithful. Other than this little clarification I’ve added the analogy is good. It strongly supports the Catholic and biblical position that salvation is not by faith alone.

Thanks for the addition. Often we see something but then with just a tiny twist or flick, hey presto, a deeper understanding comes through.

Yes I can sense your intense enthusiasm!

I like the way you answered this passage, using a different colour. I have not seen this before. I must try it and see how it works. Where does one find the list of accepted words for colours.

Beautiful Edwin…you have lived. Thank you for sharing

Phil
Thank you for the support. I am like most of us, working through my experiences with the Holy Spirit and trying to stay open to His leading and when one comes into agreement with another it is very satisfying, especially if we have a common area of disagreement.
Not a rebirth but do you mind if I rename you to {once filthy}
1sphilthy {one s}
I might add that I am a bit of a clown when let loose. My friends just try to ignore me.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[J.W.B]

edwinG:

Hi J.W.B.,
Great post. I liked the illustration where the rich man did not have faith so because of his lack of faith he could not do the necessary work. Yet this man obeyed all the rules.
This is so good, it is worth typing out.
Matthew 19:20 " The young man said to Him, ’ All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying , he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
Matthew 19:23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, " Assuredl, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:23 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
I do think the word ‘perfect’ should also be taken into account, but I am not sure how much emphasis should be placed on it regarding being saved as opposed to having an ultimate glorious position in the kingdom of God.
But without any doubt, following all of the rules won’t completely satisfy God, not that following the rules is at all possible. The jews showed us that over more than a thousand years.
wonderful post J.W.B.
walk in love
edwinG

Following the “rules” IS impossible WITHOUT God. We Need Him for EVERYTHING we do. It is Him who works in us. I just feel sad and pray for those who think that they themselves are “saved” because they “put their Faith in Christ” but CONTINUE to go to the strip club, smoke pot every day, look at porn, etc, etc! St. Paul of the New Testament constantly warns that for those with his kind of behavior will not be able to enter heaven. It reminds me of Matthew chapter 7 where we see people professing Christ as Lord yet they were not allowed in because Christ did not know them. Let us hear the words of Christ and DO then.

Please don’t mis-understand me, I’m not saying I’m perfect, OH BY FAR NO! I CONSTANTLY have to ask for Christ’s forgivness. Let us continue to walk with Him and confess our sins.

God give you peace