Falcon Heights Shooting

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Zzyzx_Road said:
Bearing a resemblance to a suspect is usually acceptable probable cause to pull someone over. Happens all the time. We never hear about it because it mostly doesn’t result in something bad happening. This one didn’t go off the rails until the officer panicked.
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What evidence do you have to support that? At this point, it is the word of an armed robbery suspect’s girlfriend against the word of a trained police officer.
 
starshiptrooper said:
What evidence do you have to support that? At this point, it is the word of an armed robbery suspect’s girlfriend against the word of a trained police officer.
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You are correct, perhaps I should have said “allegedly panicked”.

Now a question for you: what evidence you do have that the officer acted according to his training?
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
Bearing a resemblance to a suspect is usually acceptable probable cause to pull someone over.
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It can be probable cause, but in this case, I do not think this will be held as legitimate, at least without the taillight. If the nose and skin color is what is called resemblance, I do not think there is a judge in the country that would call that probable cause. I am sure the officer knew this by the way he emphasized the taillight as the reason for the stop. Unfortunately, I do not know that meant he needed to treat the stop like any other broken taillight stop, which usually does not involve approaching with a gun drawn.
 
starshiptrooper said:
What evidence do you have to support that? At this point, it is the word of an armed robbery suspect’s girlfriend against the word of a trained police officer.
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Since the trained officer is the one who is facing responsibility for killing the man, he’s not really an objective witness.
 
Allegra said:
Since the trained officer is the one who is facing responsibility for killing the man, he’s not really an objective witness.
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I wonder how much the dash board cam might have picked up (assuming there is one).
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
You are correct, perhaps I should have said “allegedly panicked”.

Now a question for you: what evidence you do have that the officer acted according to his training?
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The presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.
Allegra said:
Since the trained officer is the one who is facing responsibility for killing the man, he’s not really an objective witness.
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Like I said, “All we have…” in other words, I implicitly admitted that there is not enough evidence to establish what went down yet.
 
Padres1969 said:
He wasn’t an armed robbery suspect!
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“Suspect” is a bit of a tricky word. It is more indicative of the feelings and speculations of an observer. From the application of the word one cannot infer that the person to which the word is applied was a party to any questionable or dubious actions or events.
 
ThinkingSapien said:
“Suspect” is a bit of a tricky word. It is more indicative of the feelings and speculations of an observer. From the application of the word one cannot infer that the person to which the word is applied was a party to any questionable or dubious actions or events.
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It sure is and I think it’s more than a little dubious when we excuse a person losing their life because, well, they were a suspect after all, and the criteria used to judge them a suspect is their color and the shape of their nose. There’s a difference between “the suspect was caught leaving the bank with a sank of money and a gun” and “well, they all look alike”.
 
Padres1969 said:
Despicable. The man shot was legally carrying, exercising his second amendment rights, and was shot complying with police orders… And where is the gun nut outrage? There is none, because he’s black. :mad:
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Unlike some people, gun rights groups are waiting for these things called facts to emerge.

Also, the “because he’s black” excuse is as tired and old as being called a Nazi or a racist.

No one outside of social justice liberalism is falling that bollux anymore!
 
ThinkingSapien said:
“Suspect” is a bit of a tricky word. It is more indicative of the feelings and speculations of an observer. From the application of the word one cannot infer that the person to which the word is applied was a party to any questionable or dubious actions or events.
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Funny how we weren’t arguing definitions when Dylan Roof shot nine people. Maybe it’s because he’s white?
 
SuperLuigi said:
Funny how we weren’t arguing definitions when Dylan Roof shot nine people. Maybe it’s because he’s white?
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If you think that I’ve said anything wrong above or if you find any inconsistencies with anything I’ve said about this case and the Roof (or any other) case please let me know. I’d welcome it.
 
One person no one has yet blamed here is the person who actually did the robbery that caused cops to be looking for him. I don’t know any legal theory that would hold him responsible, but morally, your evil acts have consequences you can’t always predict.

Another group responsible for the deaths of young men are the absent fathers who did not and could not teach their sons to respect authority. Resisting arrest is usually a factor in police involved homicides, justified or not.

“And whoever does not provide for relatives and especially family members has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
1 Timothy 5:8

“Since parents have given children their life, they are bound by the most serious obligation to educate their offspring and therefore must be recognized as the primary and principal educators.”
Blessed Paul VI, DECLARATION ON CHRISTIAN EDUCATION
GRAVISSIMUM EDUCATIONIS
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_gravissimum-educationis_en.html
 
Trader said:
One person no one has yet blamed here is the person who actually did the robbery that caused cops to be looking for him. I don’t know any legal theory that would hold him responsible, but morally, your evil acts have consequences you can’t always predict.

Another group responsible for the deaths of young men are the absent fathers who did not and could not teach their sons to respect authority. Resisting arrest is usually a factor in police involved homicides, justified or not.

“And whoever does not provide for relatives and especially family members has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
1 Timothy 5:8

“Since parents have given children their life, they are bound by the most serious obligation to educate their offspring and therefore must be recognized as the primary and principal educators.”
Blessed Paul VI, DECLARATION ON CHRISTIAN EDUCATION
GRAVISSIMUM EDUCATIONIS
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_gravissimum-educationis_en.html
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There doesn’t seem to be any reason to believe that the victim in this case was fatherless or resisting arrest.
 
Allegra said:
There doesn’t seem to be any reason to believe that the victim in this case was fatherless or resisting arrest.
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Nope, he wasn’t fatherless, wasn’t a deadbeat, wasn’t a legitimate suspect of any crime, wasn’t guilty of committing any crime (unless you believe the police line about the broken taillight), was a lawful holder of a concealed carry permit, etc…

This man’s only mistake was complying with police directives by all account. Had he not reached for his ID as requested, he might still be alive.
 
Padres1969 said:
Nope, he wasn’t fatherless, wasn’t a deadbeat, wasn’t a legitimate suspect of any crime, wasn’t guilty of committing any crime (unless you believe the police line about the broken taillight), was a lawful holder of a concealed carry permit, etc…

This man’s only mistake was complying with police directives by all account. Had he not reached for his ID as requested, he might still be alive.
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We have no evidence that he was reaching for his ID other than a postmortem claim made by his girlfriend.
 
starshiptrooper said:
We have no evidence that he was reaching for his ID other than a postmortem claim made by his girlfriend.
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Based on his family’s statements, and how calm they were. And the fact the police have not disputed that and the cop’s completely unreasonable demeanor… I’m taking their word for it until proven otherwise.
 
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