Fallen Priests and Sacraments

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Tis_Bearself said:
What does this have to do with the topic of the thread?
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The OP asked if a Eucharist was valid if performed by a fallen priest, and everyone’s explanation made sense, we place our faith, grace and all in God not the priest, but yet a priest can state weather or not we are allowed to recieve the Eucarist based on the validity of our confession… so I asked why if the forgiveness of our sin is also placed in God’s grace not the priest?

Sorry if this wasn’t the place to ask my question…but thank you for answering.
 
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annad347 said:
yet a priest can state weather or not we are allowed to recieve the Eucarist based on the validity of our confession
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Setting aside the fact that priests don’t go around refusing people Eucharist on a regular basis and it is usually either for a big, major offense or because their bishop has directed them to refuse Eucharist to so-and-so (for example, some bishops have ordered that communion not be given to certain politicians who vote pro-abortion),

Priests have a duty to protect Jesus from being sacrilegiously received. The fact that the priest might have committed Serious Sins A, B and C in his own private life does not mean he can go ahead and commit an additional Serious Sin D by giving the Eucharist to someone who he knows is definitely not worthy to receive it.
 
Sacrifice33 said:
Confession?
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Point of order concerning confession. Unlike the Eucharist, a priest must have faculties from his bishop in order to validly absolve sins. So a priest who, for example, is lacized or had his faculties suspended (like Mccarrick) cannot validly hear confessions. This is explained by a canon lawyer in the article below.

The only exception of course is when the penitent is in danger of death.

 
Sacrifice33 said:
I have been wondering what it means for transubstantiation to be performed by fallen priests. Is the Eucharist legitimate? Confession? That hardly seems possible.
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If you received a presidential pardon from a man who did the same things, would be it be a true pardon?

Yes.

It is the power and authority of the office, not the personal character of the man in that office.

Since no priest has ever been sinless; no bishop or Cardinal or Pope, an even deeper question might be: why do you harbor doubt? What, or who is inciting you to doubt, if not disbelief?
 
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annad347 said:
Though he himself may not be worthy?
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If you already committed 3 grave, possibly mortal sins, would you want to add to the pile by going and committing a fourth one?
Especially if you are a priest…I would think you would realize you were already in enough bad trouble with God, without sinning even more…
 
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Yet this same priest can say weather or not I’m forgiven?

In a way that does and does not make sense… but anyway God’s is Good… All The Time!
 
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Remember that the priest is acting in the person of Christ when he is forgiving sins. He is not acting in the person of Father Joe Smith, Sinful Priest.
Christ is forgiving your sins.

And also, let’s remember that ALL priests are sinful men. They are humans, and humans sin, frequently. We all sin.
Fortunately, many priests do what they need to do to stay in a state of grace - avoid sin especially grave sin, avoid temptation, go to confession frequently. But if you’re looking for a sinless or even near-sinless priest, you’re going to be looking a long time.
 
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Fauken said:
It is God who forgives you of your sins through the priest, not the other way around.
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And God forgives all sin, (except for the one). Meanig there should be no point in which a priest should not give a person absolution when God forgives all who come to Him seeking forgiveness.

Which would mean there is no such thing as a fallen priest.
 
annad347 said:
And God forgives all sin, (except for the one). Meanig there should be no point in which a priest should not give a person absolution when God forgives all who come to Him seeking forgiveness.
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That “one sin” is zero contrition: if you’re not sorry, then you’re not forgiven, so yes.
annad347 said:
Which would mean there is no such thing as a fallen priest.
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I’m afraid that your logic doesn’t follow, or maybe I’m not understanding what you’re saying here. What do you mean there’s no such thing as a fallen priest? A “fallen priest” is a priest in a state of mortal sin. That is most certainly possible.
 
Woah there, it is not your job to be forgiving the priest’s sins. You’re not God, nor do you act in persona Christi. Your personal forgiveness is something you might give as a spiritual betterment for yourself (God says to let go of grudges), but it does not benefit the priest in any way, and you’re expected to forgive whether the priest is sorry or not - it’s not a tit-fot-tat, “I’ll forgive you if you forgive me” or “I’ll forgive you if you say you’re sorry” or “I’ll forgive you if you do this other thing for me.”

It is also not the priest’s job to forgive your sins. Forgiveness comes from God, using the priest as a channel. Two of us have already explained this to you.
The priest’s job is also to determine, as he has been taught, if you have contrition so that God can forgive you. This is not a matter of the priest personally forgiving you.
 
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annad347 said:
But I thought a priest had to be in a state of grace in order to perform the sacraments, or can he still perform them while he Himself is in sin?
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He can, yes. Now he can incur the sin of sacrilege for performing some of the Sacraments in a state of mortal sin, but the Sacraments are still valid, as God is the one who works through the Sacraments. Sin cannot stop Him from making them efficacious.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
The priest’s job is also to determine, as he has been taught, if you have contrition so that God can forgive you.
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so God can forgive me?

sorry, some of what you guys are saying makes sense and some of it doesn’t… but its okay, I understand a priest is a channel… fallen or not… thank for trying to help.

God Bless.
 
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Kind of a side issue here, but still within the scope of the original question:

Could there ever be a circumstance in which a laicized or defrocked priest could licitly celebrate Mass?

I am not referring to validity. Even if it were illicit — if he said Mass for no good reason, just out of disobedience to the laicization order — the Mass would still be valid, and the species would become the Body and Blood of Christ.

I have in mind here (and I know this is extremely hypothetical) a situation where, for instance, the Eucharist is urgently needed — someone is on the brink of death, needs Viaticum, there is no other priest or church nearby, and this is the only way to acquire the sacrament — or where a body of the faithful is stranded without access to the sacraments for an extended period of time (not just “it’s Sunday and the faithful need Mass to fulfill their obligation”), unless the laicized priest says Mass for them. This would be extremely rare and unlikely, but in some isolated area, or in a place where there had been some great natural or man-made disaster that cut off access to the outside world for a long period of time, it could conceivably happen. Another example could be a prison camp during wartime where the only validly ordained priest available is a fellow prisoner who just happens to have been laicized or defrocked.

Any thoughts?
 
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There was a story from the life of St Teresa of Avila. Once where she lived there was a priest who was living in sin with this particular woman. During mass one day she saw that priest enslaved by the devil. Yet during mass that this priest said, Jesus appeared to her. Jesus told her that he willingly allowed himself to pass through this priest, an enemy to him. (That is what mortal sin does. It makes us an enemy of Christ.) He allowed this because of his great love for her. I think we should focus on who we are receiving rather than who the priest is and what he may or may not have done.
 
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