Fallujah is introduced to democracy and freedom

[gnjsdad]

Or maybe they’re just not hip to the latest version of the just war theory

juancole.com/2005/03/fallujah-tent-city-awaits-compensation.html

 

[gilliam]

gnjsdad:

Or maybe they’re just not hip to the latest version of the just war theory

juancole.com/2005/03/fallujah-tent-city-awaits-compensation.html

Most of the residents of Fallujah went to Bagdad and neighboring villages and are staying with relatives. These people had multiple chances to stop sheltering the terrorists and stop providing a base that launched many, many attacks on US and Iraqi people. Before we went into the city, we gave the innocent civilians (and a lot of terrorists) plenty of warning to leave the city. When we entered the city what we found very, very, very few civilians (and many of them tested positive for handling munitions).

Even after that, the Iraqi government is providing aid to them to help them get back on their feet. I don’t get your point.

 

[gnjsdad]

gilliam:

Most of the residents of Fallujah went to Bagdad and neighboring villages and are staying with relatives.

You make it sound as if the power went out for a few hours. We’re talking about the destruction of a city of 300,000 people.

gilliam:

These people had multiple chances to stop sheltering the terrorists and stop providing a base that launched many, many attacks on US and Iraqi people.

In other words, they had it coming? Thousands of women and children? I am frankly appalled at your cavalier attitude. Fallujah is a major humanitarian disaster, the full extent of which we don’t yet know. Because of a few bad apples, thousands of people need to be displaced and made homeless, subject to privation and disease? I think we need to discuss the meaning of proportional response.

gilliam:

When we entered the city what we found very, very, very few civilians (and many of them tested positive for handling munitions).

Why not just shoot them all?

gilliam:

Even after that, the Iraqi government is providing aid to them to help them get back on their feet.

I’m sure the Iraqi ‘government’ (in quotes because I’m not sure they really have one yet) has all the resources necessary to take care of things.

 

[gilliam]

Fallujah was a rats nest and terrorist raids where eminating from there every day. There is no way the nation of Iraq could stand with Fallujah left to be the terrorist base that it was.

If we were a Muslem nation, and not a Christian one, we would have shelled it with the women and children there, and you know it. Look at what Syria did more than once and what Iran has done.

That our boys died because of the precautions we took, doesn’t seem to matter to you. That for the sake of the nation of Iraq we had to clear out the al-Qaeda and Baathists from Fallujah, doesn’t seem to matter to you. That we did it as humainly as we could after waiting much too long to do it, doesn’t seem to matter to you. Sir, I have a very LARGE problem with your attitude, so I will end this particular conversation with you here.

 

[Veritas]

gnjsdad:

Or maybe they’re just not hip to the latest version of the just war theory

Thanks, gnjsdad. This is actually a great example of how democracy and freedom is working and provides a dramatic counter-point to the alternative.

(Although I suspect that what you were actually doing was trying to be snide – say, why is it that the only thing offered by the Left is just a long sneer? – but I digress).

Fallujah, that “wretched hive of scum and villainy” had to be cleared out. The Left, for some reason , ascribes the damage to the good guys as if the bad guys were morally neutral players in this.

But as the article describes (you did read it, right?), thanks to democracy and freedom the bureaucrats are estimating damages on a case by case basis with money and assistance to follow. The alternative offered by Saddam would be to bulldoze the place and salt the earth. Or would the Left simply prefer to keep the inhabitants of Fallujah under the oppression of terrorists (and thereby gain another opportunity for a sneer)?

Which does the Left prefer? One wonders.

 

[gnjsdad]

Veritas:

Thanks, gnjsdad. This is actually a great example of how democracy and freedom is working and provides a dramatic counter-point to the alternative.

(Although I suspect that what you were actually doing was trying to be snide – say, why is it that the only thing offered by the Left is just a long sneer? – but I digress).

Fallujah, that “wretched hive of scum and villainy” had to be cleared out. The Left, for some reason , ascribes the damage to the good guys as if the bad guys were morally neutral players in this.

But as the article describes (you did read it, right?), thanks to democracy and freedom the bureaucrats are estimating damages on a case by case basis with money and assistance to follow. The alternative offered by Saddam would be to bulldoze the place and salt the earth. Or would the Left simply prefer to keep the inhabitants of Fallujah under the oppression of terrorists (and thereby gain another opportunity for a sneer)?

Which does the Left prefer? One wonders.

Thanks, veritas, but I’m no leftist. I’m a conservative Catholic who’s appalled at what has become of conservatism in this country. It’s getting more militaristic by the day, it seems. I also find offensive the attitude that America can do no wrong; that anything we do can be justified because we were attacked on 9/11. I find the Iraq war one of the greatest strategic blunders this county has ever committed, the full consequences of which we haven’t begun to experience. My purpose in making this thread was to show some of the reality that is masked by all the happy talk of the ‘freedom and democracy’ we are bringing to Iraq.

 

[aimee]

gnjsdad:

Thanks, veritas, but I’m no leftist. I’m a conservative Catholic who’s appalled at what has become of conservatism in this country. It’s getting more militaristic by the day, it seems. I also find offensive the attitude that America can do no wrong; that anything we do can be justified because we were attacked on 9/11. I find the Iraq war one of the greatest strategic blunders this county has ever committed, the full consequences of which we haven’t begun to experience. My purpose in making this thread was to show some of the reality that is masked by all the happy talk of the ‘freedom and democracy’ we are bringing to Iraq.

gnjsdad… conservative Catholic?..I’ve read some of your posts… Come on…you have to be joking…

 

[Veritas]

gnjsdad:

I find the Iraq war one of the greatest strategic blunders this county has ever committed, the full consequences of which we haven’t begun to experience.

I agree that a strategic framework is necessary to understand what is going on. And strategically, I think we had no choice. You need to think very big picture. This is “clash of civilization” stuff. Frankly, if Bush doesn’t succeed, it will be a very brutal future.

(Few realize just how close Bin Laden came to bring the US to its knees. If he had had an ounce of strategic insight he could have finished us off. And by exposing our weakness, every t(name removed by moderator)ot out there has the keys to the kingdom through terror.)

gnjsdad:

My purpose in making this thread was to show some of the reality that is masked by all the happy talk of the ‘freedom and democracy’ we are bringing to Iraq.

I think you utterly failed. In searching for a dark reality, you ignore the light. It really seems that you are only looking for evidence to support your pre-conceived notions. Logically, that’s backwards.

 

[gnjsdad]

Veritas:

I In searching for a dark reality, you ignore the light.

I’d rather deal with reality than utopian fantasy. You can get the ‘light’ (how wonderful things are in Iraq) from other posters.

Veritas:

It really seems that you are only looking for evidence to support your pre-conceived notions. Logically, that’s backwards.

I don’t understand this criticism. I have opinions; so do you; so does anyone else here. I try to back up my opinions with facts. That is no different than anyone else who posts here.