False Devotion to Mary

[Jeanne_S]

Beautifully said USMC-Convert!!!

Another word for adoration can be veneration. Catholics do know the difference between that and Worship of God. We use the word adoration as commonly as we use the word love. ( I just adore your new dress), (I adore my great aunt) I love ice cream!! etc. Now if we really want to get ‘picky’ we can have a big fight over this but I don’t see the need for that myself. Loving Mary and honoring her is the desire we should all have and that will bring us much closer to Her SON. NO ONE can love Her more than Jesus did. He is not a jealous of our love for His Mother. So instead of pouncing on every word someone uses, lets try to see the love in the heart of this poster and soften up. Your humility is admirable!! God Bless, Memaw

This!

 

[Rosebud77]

Can you further explain this passage from Lumen Gentium and its relevance to the original post? True devotion to Mary is a classic on Marian piety. One of the greatest post-Vatican II popes, St. John Paul II, practiced and cherished this devotion. He even said it was the “foundation for his whole spiritual life.”
I understand the importance of making sure **our separated brethren **don’t have a distorted view of Catholic Marian piety, but at the same time we shouldn’t hide our rich heritage either.

May God bless you,

Stephen

That dreadful, awful phrase.

 

[Rosebud77]

It is not MANDATORY?

many make it sound thus and get accusatory,

 

[Dorothy]

Yes, you are absolutely correct, I mistakenly used the word adoration.

That’s what I thought. Words are important!

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Since we are throwing out all the old Saints and only sticking to the new,(btw, how old do they have to be to be thrown out? St Augustine/St Patrick old or St. Louis de Montfort/St. John Vianney old? What is the threshold?) here is what St. Padre Pio had to say about the Blessed Mother, well just a few of his quotes.

“Let us bind ourselves tightly to the Sorrowful Heart of our Heavenly Mother and reflect on its boundless grief and how precious is our soul.”

“May the Mother of Jesus and our Mother, always smile on your spirit, obtaining for it, from her Most Holy Son, every heavenly blessing.”

“Go and keep company with Jesus in His Passion, and with His Sorrowful Mother.”

“Some people are so foolish that they think they can go through life
 without the help of the Blessed Mother.”

“Let us endeavor,*** like so many elect souls***, to follow this blessed Mother, to walk always close to Her,*** not following any other path that leads to life, except the one trod by our Mother***.”

“Always stay close to this Heavenly Mother, because she is the sea to be crossed to reach the shores of Eternal Splendor.”

“Love the Madonna and pray the Rosary, for her Rosary is the weapon against the evils of the world today. All graces given by God pass through the Blessed Mother.”

What do you think your last quote means? All Graces given by God pass through the Blessed Virgin?
Have you thought what it means?

1. We aren’t throwing out any Saints.
2. Not one Catholic would dispute the place the Blessed Virgin holds within Christianity.
3. Great to see reference to a modern Saint, St Padre Pio. He is also awesome . And yes , he is right about the Rosary being a Powerful Spiritual Weapon. After all didnt God set the stage in Genesis when He said the Woman would crush the head of satan.

God told us creatures how amazing the Blessed Virgin would be. Right back in Genesis.
And the Blessed Virgin gave us the weapon- the Rosary. Pope Francis gave us a weapon - dont dialogue with the devil.

And yes, Padre Pio is right in saying we should follow the path trod by Our Lady. It is the path that leads to Holiness. Humility, chastity, obedience, love, no self will.

1. Since we are discussing what St John Paul 11 said, have you heard of the Marian Movement of Priests?
2. This constant referral to one Saint and his book on CAF, and his method borders on Idoltary to me. Its scary. Especially coupled with dischord towards a Marian expert in the employ of God. One we Laity owe respect and deference to.
3. Jesus appeared to St Faustina. Our Lady, Jesus and St Joseph appeared to the children of Fatima. Why not listen to what they said directly. In Fatima, Our Lady did not ask for a 30 day consecration process as per St Louis.
   Our Lady asked for 5 first Saturdays.
   What do these first Saturdays involve? Confession ! + the Eucharist, one 5x Rosary decades, 15 min meditation on Rosary points, and reparation to insults to her. And pray for the Pope!

And quit sinning.

So why do ‘Marian Devotees’ insist on st Louis, instead of St Our Lady the Blessed Virgin.

Points on Jesus.

1. Want to get close to Jesus? One great method is Divine Mercy. The Feast, the Chaplet, the Hour , the painting. Jesus specifically appeared to a St to request this.
2. The Holy Face devotion. It was common pre ww1. It is about St Veronica and the image of Jesus in her veil. It is about Reparation too. It is about keeping Sundays the Lord’s Day.

By all means pray for the intercession of Our Lady, to become closer to Jesus, but at the same time do as Our Lady herself has requested.

Here is some food for thought.

When Our Lady appears, does she not adjust dress and appearance to the times and the culture? For example as Our Lady of Guadeloupe, Our Lady of Akita, Our Lady of Kibeho, Our Lady of Fatima.
This should be our yardstick .

 

[Memaw]

It is not MANDATORY?

many make it sound thus and get accusatory,

And to many brush devotion to Our Blessed Mother aside as tho it is unimportant. She herself said , From now on, all generations will call Me Blessed. While not “mandatory”, I often wonder why Catholics adamantly insist on using that word when The Church has always honored Our Blessed Mother in the most beautiful ways and has encouraged us to do the same!!! We give a divided understanding to our “separated brethren”. (A term the Church uses.) God Bless, Memaw

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Devotion to the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary

This Message was confided by Our Lord to Berthe Petit, a humble Franciscan Tertiary, born on January 23, 1870, at Enghien, Belgium:
**
“Teach souls to love the Heart of My Mother pierced by the very sorrows which pierced Mine.”** (December 25, 1909)

At the Holy Hour (March 25, 1912) the Blessed Virgin spoke thus: “I have called myself the Immaculate Conception. To you I call myself Mother of the Sorrowful Heart. This title willed by my Son is dear to me above all others. According as it is spread everywhere, there will be granted graces of mercy, spiritual renewal and salvation.”

brizek.com/prayer/pieta.htm#prayrdev

Again, this is not about the way to Jesus is through Our Lady.

Have you heard of the seven sorrows Rosary? Our Lady appeared to children in Kibeho and requested this 7 Sorrows Rosary on Tuesdays and Fridays.

 

[Crusaderbear]

My problem has always been I tend to feel guilty since I am always asking Mary (or any number of other Saints) for intercessions on my behalf! I see I need to spend more prayer time just thanking them for being there.

 

[Memaw]

As a nearly Catholic, I find the whole thing very confusing. I looked at St Louis De Montfort’s book a number of times, inspired by St John Paul II’s love for it, and a certain amount of pure curiosity towards Marian piety, which has always been both a drawing factor towards Catholicism and a stumbling block to it.

I love traditional Marian devotions, I pray the rosary daily, and believe the church teaches she is the highest of all Saints (I could be wrong on that). But I found Total consecration to be a bit overwhelming as a devotion. I still hold the Blessed Mother in the highest of esteem, and ask for her prayers often, even outside of the rosary.

So I would say simply, I have devotion to Mary, and it won’t look like your devotion to her, and it probably shouldn’t as all of her children are different. With my own children, it is the same. Some are very huggy and cuddly kids, some are more verbal with their affection, some are too busy running around but love me none the less.

No, you are not wrong on that. She IS the highest of Saints. No Saint ever gave Birth to our Savior. You may have a better understanding of our devotion to Mary than many Catholics!! Our Lord’s Mother should NEVER be a stumbling block for anyone. Like my Mom used to say, “You can’t lover Her more than Her SON does.” God Bless, Memaw

 

[friardchips]

As in several threads lately the topic of devotion to the Blessed Mother has come up I thought I’d write what a false devotee would be, according to St. Louis de Montfort (True Devotion to Mary pg 41-46).

"There are, I find, seven kinds of false devotees and false devotions to Mary. I class the devotees as critical, scrupulous, exterior, presumptuous, inconstant, hypocritical, and interested.

The critical are usually proud scholars, people of independent and self satisfied minds…They discredit all miracles, and all stories of the Virgin’s power…

Scrupulous false devotees are those who imagine they are dishonoring Mary’s Son by honoring Mary. They fear they may belittle the One by exalting the other. They cannot stand that men should praise the Mother of God as the great saints have praised her. They rant and rave when they see more people kneeling before the Virgin’s altar than before the Blessed Sacrament-as if one were opposed to the other, and as if those who pray to Mary do not pray to Jesus through her.

These people do not want their friends to talk so much about the Queen of Heaven, nor to address her so often. “Why so many Rosaries?”, they ask. “Why so many Marian confraternities and exterior devotions? This is ignorance. It is making a mummery of religion. Let’s have the real thing. Let’s have devotion to Jesus Christ.” They name the Lord without taking off their hats, or bending their heads. “Let’s preach Jesus, nothing else. That is a solid devotion. Jesus is our only Mediator.”

What they say about Jesus is true; but in the way they apply it to prevent devotion to the Mother of Jesus-using it as a pretense of fostering a greater good-one finds a cunning snare set by the devil…

Exterior false devotees are those for whom Marian devotion consists only in outward show. They relish this sort of thing because they have no interior spirit. They will say many Rosaries-hastily. They will hear several Masses in a morning without attention. They will march in processions, without fervor. They will enroll themselves in all Mary’s confraternities, without reforming their lives, stifling their passions or imitating Mary’s virtues…

Presumptuous false devotees are sinners abandoned to their vices…With semblance of devotion to her they conceal pride, avarice, impurity, drunkenness, anger, profanity, gossip, and all sorts of injustices…Aren’t they devoted to Mary? They think they are. So God will forgive them. They think He will. They not die without the Sacraments. They think they won’t. They will not be damned. They think they won’t. Don’t they say the Rosary, when they think of it? Don’t they fast, sometimes, on Saturdays? Don’t they belong to a Marian confraternity?..Nothing in Christianity is more abominable than this presumption. It is satanic…

Inconstant false devotees are those who are devout to Our Lady at intervals, and according to their own whims…

Hypocritical false devotees seek to hide their ugliness of soul from the eyes of others by flying the banner of the Virgin most pure.

And interested false devotees are more devoted to themselves than to the Lady whose name they invoke. They want something from her…"

Ave Maria!

A good solid reminder; thanks!


God bless.

 

[friardchips]

Devotion to the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary

This Message was confided by Our Lord to Berthe Petit, a humble Franciscan Tertiary, born on January 23, 1870, at Enghien, Belgium:
**
“Teach souls to love the Heart of My Mother pierced by the very sorrows which pierced Mine.”** (December 25, 1909)

At the Holy Hour (March 25, 1912) the Blessed Virgin spoke thus: “I have called myself the Immaculate Conception. To you I call myself Mother of the Sorrowful Heart. This title willed by my Son is dear to me above all others. According as it is spread everywhere, there will be granted graces of mercy, spiritual renewal and salvation.”

brizek.com/prayer/pieta.htm#prayrdev

Ditto. Never read this before. Wonderful!

:bounce:

 

[Rosebud77]

And to many brush devotion to Our Blessed Mother aside as tho it is unimportant. She herself said , From now on, all generations will call Me Blessed. While not “mandatory”, I often wonder why Catholics adamantly insist on using that word when The Church has always honored Our Blessed Mother in the most beautiful ways and has encouraged us to do the same!!! We give a divided understanding to our “separated brethren”. (A term the Church uses.) God Bless, Memaw

Ah you are misreading and misintrepreting my words now and that is unacceptable and unfair and actually drives away more and more .

Time maybe for a loooooooong brreak from Cath Ans.

Fare thee well my dear.

 

[friardchips]

…from Cath Ans.

That is the point: CATHOLIC Answers

 

[twf]

As a priest and a professor of Mariology, this is unspeakably offensive. It is shameful.

You need to remember, USMC Convert, the strict admonition of all the world’s bishops when they declared in Lumen Gentium
Let them assiduously keep away from whatever, either by word or deed, could lead separated brethren or any other into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church.

I suspect the poster in question doesn’t understand the proper Catholic usage of the word 'adoration". Anglicans, Lutherans, and other Protestants of a more traditional bent would, I think, use “adoration” as Catholics do…and agree that adoration is for God alone.
Growing up as a low church Evangelical, I don’t remember using the word “adoration” in a religious sense at all. We spoke of praising God and worshiping God. Adoration was more of a secular term. “I adore that outfit! I adore that show! Isn’t that baby adorable!” It was during my journey to Catholicism that I came to understand the older, religious use of the term as the worship we owe to God alone.

Interestingly, there are older English texts that speak of the “worship” of Mary and the saints. This is most scandalous to contemporary Evangelicals who use the word “worship” in the same sense that we use the word “adoration”. Of course, as a Canadian, I understand that the word “worship” has had various connotations over the centuries. We still, after all, address our mayors as “Your Worship”. The evolving use of the word “worship” became obvious when I attended a Baptist church some years ago at which the local mayor was in attendance. The pastor jokingly commented “we’ll refrain from addressing you as “your worship” here”.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Hmmm, interesting point…and if I have made anyone feel like:

" that “Marian devotion isn’t required” is somehow equivalent to “Marian devotion is wrong” or that if you don’t have an active devotion you must hate Mary."

then I am truly sorry, that was not my intention whatsoever.

I am also sorry as I did not mean to lump you in with other posters. I did wish to put James248’s comments in some context, that he has participated in prior topics where others did do this, most of those topics have been deleted however.

 

[Memaw]

Ah you are misreading and misintrepreting my words now and that is unacceptable and unfair and actually drives away more and more .

Time maybe for a loooooooong brreak from Cath Ans.

Fare thee well my dear.

However did I misread or misinterpret your words?? I was just giving MY opinion on how I see things. Many use the words “not mandatory”, pertaining to the Blessed Mother and I don’t believe anyone has ever said it WAS mandatory. No more than saying devotion to the Sacred Heart or Divine Mercy etc. is MANDATORY! I don’t understand the need to point that out, when it comes to the Blessed Mother. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

No, you are not wrong on that. She IS the highest of Saints. No Saint ever gave Birth to our Savior. You may have a better understanding of our devotion to Mary than many Catholics!! Our Lord’s Mother should NEVER be a stumbling block for anyone. Like my Mom used to say, “You can’t love Her more than Her SON does.” God Bless, Memaw

 

[Jeanne_S]

And to many brush devotion to Our Blessed Mother aside as tho it is unimportant. She herself said , From now on, all generations will call Me Blessed. While not “mandatory”, I often wonder why Catholics adamantly insist on using that word when The Church has always honored Our Blessed Mother in the most beautiful ways and has encouraged us to do the same!!! We give a divided understanding to our “separated brethren”. (A term the Church uses.) God Bless, Memaw

You bring up an interesting and important point re the way in which we address Our Blessed Mother. That is the title I grew up with re Our Mother Mary.Shecwas always Our Blessed Mother.I guess Vatican II brought about alternative means of addressing her.Just Mary ,now seems the norm . I personally at the very least refer to her as Our Mother Mary or Our Blessed Mother.

 

[friardchips]

You bring up an interesting and important point re the way in which we address Our Blessed Mother. That is the title I grew up with re Our Mother Mary.Shecwas always Our Blessed Mother.I guess Vatican II brought about alternative means of addressing her.Just Mary ,now seems the norm . I personally at the very least refer to her as Our Mother Mary or Our Blessed Mother.

WADR, Mary has always been “Mary”, and Vatican II made no such change to the titles that Our Lady is known by.

 

[Jeanne_S]

WADR, Mary has always been “Mary”, and Vatican II made no such change to the titles that Our Lady is known by.

My point was addressing her as just Mary seems more informal is all.Kind of like kids addressing their parents’ by their first names as opposed to Mom,etc:shrug: