False Prophesies of LDS Prophets

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The 6000 year old Earth is what I was taught when I was a Mormon. Creation of the earth, 4000 years later, Jesus. 2000 years later the millennium, which should last another 1000 years.

It comes from the Mormon belief that one day to their God is 1000 years to us. This is based on something cosmic, planetary, described I believe In the Book of Abraham (LDS scripture). So, I was taught earth as it is from the time of creation is 6 of the Mormon God’s days, and the 7th (millennium) is a “day” of rest.

It is all tied to the Y2K religious fever, or vice versa, that is prevalent among LDS.
 
You might have heard the opinion of someone in the Mormon church who believed about the 6000 years ago and you concluded that the entire Church believed in that.

In your understanding did Adam and Eve live 6000 years ago? And if so, how do you explain humans remains dated 20 thousand years ago? How about 100 thousand years ago? Humans before Adam and Eve.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith:
The world has had a fair trial for six thousand years; the Lord will try the seventh thousand Himself;
D&C 77:6:
Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?
We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.
"Journal of Discourses:
As there is one day out of seven set apart, sanctified and ordained as a day of rest, so there is one thousand years set apart as a day of rest out of the seven thousand which will constitute the temporal existence of our earth.
How do you explain that?
Yes, how do you explain that?
 
That is an interesting comment. I have been Mormon for many years, but never noticed that Mormons were anti-Catholics.
I did read that book, but it was a historical book. How can you avoid it? I think he tried to show the historical facts of the apostasy.
How about the Catholics? Torturing a man and unleashing the Inquisition on him because the Church and the Pope believed that the Sun revolved around the earth?
I see now why you say you have never noticed anti-Catholicism in Mormonism. You have become such a part of it that you can’t see it.
As I said before, this shows you do not know the history of Christianity or the history of science. Mormonism is based on anti-Catholicism and has to reject history, science and reason.
Yeah…I heard that the Book of Mormon is a 19th century a million times since I joined the Mormon Church…but, you did not do your homework. There is much support for the Book of Mormon.
There is absolutely nothing to support the Book of Mormon as defined by Joseph Smith’s revelation. Again Mormons have to reject science.
Even the scriptures pointed into the opposite direction and yet they tortured or even killed anybody who thought otherwise…

Joshua 10:13 says “So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven” or Isaiah 40:22 that speaks of “the heavens stretched out as a curtain” above “the circle of the earth”?
Yes, that was the Protestant position, and Mormon but they had not been invented yet. Catholics knew the Bible was not a science book.
 
The 6000 year old Earth is what I was taught when I was a Mormon. Creation of the earth, 4000 years later, Jesus. 2000 years later the millennium, which should last another 1000 years.

It comes from the Mormon belief that one day to their God is 1000 years to us. This is based on something cosmic, planetary, described I believe In the Book of Abraham (LDS scripture). So, I was taught earth as it is from the time of creation is 6 of the Mormon God’s days, and the 7th (millennium) is a “day” of rest.

It is all tied to the Y2K religious fever, or vice versa, that is prevalent among LDS.
Oh my! This made me laugh! The Y2K fever… The talks given during sacrament meetings & the endless lessons about bush survival & preparing for the second coming (doomsday prepping). My parents bought into the whole saga, they still use this super expensive food sealing machine they bought through the church in 99
 
. . .To me anti-Catholic is Talmages The Great Apostasy and you people read it an apparently talk about it frequently. It is a bilious diatribe against Catholicism that misrepresents and distorts history. It’s only aim a vicious attack on the religion of others.
As is Marston’s Missionary Pal which is like reading Lorraine Boettner.
 
Oh my! This made me laugh! The Y2K fever… The talks given during sacrament meetings & the endless lessons about bush survival & preparing for the second coming (doomsday prepping). My parents bought into the whole saga, they still use this super expensive food sealing machine they bought through the church in 99
It started earlier, as I left Mormonism in the 80s. My parents had hundreds of pounds of wheat stored in barrels, in their basement, that they threw out eventually many years later. It was a millennium fever as long as I can remember among my LDS friends, family and co-workers. Y2K pumped up the volume, now it seems to be back to the regular old millennium fever.

“Millennium” being, Jesus’ return and the coming 1000 years.

In my own conversion, I had many points of relief that Catholics didn’t believe or teach so many things I was a taught as a Mormon. Millennialism is one of those things, and a very different understanding of St. John’s Apocalypse. Relief that comes from a rational understanding of scripture. Millennialism being another 19th century phenomena.
 
Now…are you going to tell me that in the Catholic Seminary they don’t teach about the Mormon Church and have their own interpretation of Mormonism? Are you going to say that there is not one bit of negative information about Mormons in the Catholic Church?

Why would they? Mormonism is not relevant to truth.

If you have a few or maybe even more than that I still would not consider Catholics being anti Mormon.

That is not the issue. YOU said that YOU had never heard any Mormon say anything anti-Catholic. I have proven you incredibly wrong.

Now, because McConkie wrote a few lines about Catholics in a book that is not even officially published by the church you consider Mormons anti Catholics? That is not what I consider anti Catholic. Of course I heard some things about the Catholic Church, but it was far from being considered anti Catholic in my opinion.

lol…it was called MORMON DOCTRINE. Does not get any plainer than that. Dodge all you want. And I still have a copy of that edition
 
As I recall there is only one verse that tells us that Adam and Eve realized they were naked, which was **after **partaking of the fruit. Can you tell me why they did not notice they were naked before the transgression?
Haydock’s Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition:
Ver. 25.* Not ashamed,* because they had not perverted the work of God. Inordinate concupiscence is the effect of sin. (Haydock)
Before partaking the fruit Adam and Eve were similar to children…very innocent, they liked each other and felt attraction to each other in a different way, but they didn’t think about procreation or desires of the flesh. The structure of their bodies before the fruit was an innocent and eternal. I have not seen you demonstrate to me that they could have children before the fall.
Haydock’s Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition:
Ver. 28. Increase and multiply. This is not a precept, as some protestant controvertists would have it, but a blessing, rendering them fruitful: for God had said the same words to the fishes and birds, (ver. 22.) who were incapable of receiving a precept. (Challoner)

God gave the exact same blessing to the birds of the air and the fish of the sea in verse 22, ‘increase and multiply’ (αὐξάνεσθε καὶ πληθύνεσθε in the Greek). Did the birds and fish need to ‘sin’ in order to fulfill God’s blessing? Not possible.

God created Adam and Eve (as well as the birds and fish) fruitful, fully capable of fulfilling His blessing.
 
I see now why you say you have never noticed anti-Catholicism in Mormonism. You have become such a part of it that you can’t see it.
As I said before, this shows you do not know the history of Christianity or the history of science. Mormonism is based on anti-Catholicism and has to reject history, science and reason.
Steven,

I do agree that if Catholicism was the uninterrupted Church Christ established on the earth, then there would be no need for Mormonism. Mormonism, as you know, claims restoration of what was lost and corrupted. Mormonism has not only provided biblical and historical evidences of an apostasy, but also the restoration. The Bible attests not only to an apostasy, but also to a restoration before the second coming of Christ and that is where the Mormons come in.

The only reason Mormonism exists is to fulfill this vacuum. It is not that the Mormons invented what Catholics did throughout history, it is just a natural way of uncovering history and Mormons are not alone in it…it is there for anyone who studies history. Protestants also acknowledge it and that is one of the reasons they broke way from the Catholic Church. They also have noticed how far the Church has detracted from the primitive Church teachings, but unfortunately hey had no authority to do it…it was just good intentions, and that is not enough for God.

In this process of uncovering history and stating their position, Mormons inevitably will have to expose some unpleasant facts about Catholic history that may make Catholics feel uncomfortable with. It is not throwing mud or being anti Catholic.

By the way I do believe that theologians from most Churches study Mormonism and they do try to find weakness in their arguments, you will easily see this in negative articles about Mormons all over the internet. I talked to a father of the Catholic Church in Brazil and he told me that they studied it when he attended theological school.

Other denominations also have their opinions about the history of the Catholic Church, for example this one:

*“Catholic theologians made a great mistake in the Middle Ages. They assumed the Scriptures taught things about the material universe which were, in fact, false interpretations or assumptions. Perhaps for the masses, it was enough to listen to and believe dogmas with the stamped sanction of “Church authority.” But for THINKING men, “Renaissance Man,” for scientists who wished us to “prove all things,” as the Scriptures themselves tell us to do (I Thessalonians 5:21), mere recitation of Church authority or tradition was not enough.” *

hope-of-israel.org/lifeadam.htm

This broad selection of quotations provides clear support for the idea that the doctrines and practice of the Early Church of the apostles had been altered dramatically within a few centuries at most:

Will Durant, "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. The Greek mind, dying, came to a transmigrated [new] life in the theology and liturgy of the Church."

Stuart Hall: ***“Fourth century orthodoxy is not the same as what Peter and Paul believed, any more than modern Roman Catholicism or Anglicanism is…" *
**

Thomas Jefferson, though surely not a cleric, was a great student of Christianity. Even he acknowledged the loss of the original gospel and said that he looked forward to "the prospect of a restoration of primitive Christianity. I must leave to younger athletes to encounter and lop off the false branches which have been engrafted into it by the mythologies of the middle and modern ages"

Philip Smith: "The sad truth is that as soon as Christianity was generally diffused, it began to absorb corruptions from all the lands in which it was planted, and to reflect the complexion of all their systems of religion and philosophy."

J.W.C. Wand (former Anglican Bishop of London) “the new Christian church was frankly national. The people were converted en bloc; the temples were turned into churches and the priests were ordained into the Christian ministry.”

Robert Wilken, professor of the history of Christianity at the University of Virginia, wrote ***“only a few enterprising intellectuals, and only after more than one hundred years of Christian history, had begun to take the risk of expressing Christian beliefs within the philosophical ideas current in the Greco Roman world. Most Christians were against to such attempts. As late as the third century, after the apologetic movement had introduced Greek ideas into Christian thinking, Christian preachers complained that the rank and file opposed such ideas.” ***

en.fairmormon.org/Apostasy/Patristic_evidence_of
 
There is a long history of anti-Catholic vitriol from Mormon leaders. While you heard things about the Catholicism in church, in my entire life I never, I repeat never, heard anything about the LDS church in a Catholic church. One time, in one weekly bible study session, out of 9 years of such study, someone mentioned the LDS church, and that was a mention about how the LDS church was fighting same sex marriage in CA. That’s it the only mention in a Catholic setting, in my entire life, of the LDS church. I find your attitude of “Of course I heard some things about the Catholic Church” problematic. “Of course I heard” why “of course” why are LDS members spending time talking about the Catholic church? They’re not members they don’t know or understand the teachings of the Catholic church why are they talking about it. From my experience the “of course” would have to be “of course I never heard about the LDS at church, why would I?”
Let me clarify…when I say I heard something about the Catholic Church, I refer to my personal conversation with a few members, in which I asked certain questions, specially because I used to be Catholic. Sometimes a friend would bring something up in a personal conversation…you have to remember, most Mormons from Brazil are converts from Catholicism and the comparison once in a while would come up in personal conversation. However, I attended Institute of Religion, Seminary, Sunday School, Priesthood meetings, Bishopric meetings…and I never heard any conversation or bashing of any religion.

If you are an ex Mormon, you know that we don’t preach against any religion from the pulpit, printed press or internet or any other way. In the Mormon Church that I know we are taught by the leaders verbally and in writing to respect other religions and people form any other faith. That is a Mormon teaching…that has been my experience.

In a way you probably have NOT seen me offend any member here in my posts, at least not deliberately, however many have offended me and my faith on purpose. I have adopted the teaching of the LDS Church to respect people and their beliefs and I do my best to live that.
 
Steven,

I do agree that if Catholicism was the uninterrupted Church Christ established on the earth, then there would be no need for Mormonism. Mormonism, as you know, claims restoration of what was lost and corrupted. Mormonism has not only provided biblical and historical evidences of an apostasy, but also the restoration. The Bible attests not only to an apostasy, but also to a restoration before the second coming of Christ and that is where the Mormons come in.

The only reason Mormonism exists is to fulfill this vacuum. It is not that the Mormons invented what Catholics did throughout history, it is just a natural way of uncovering history and Mormons are not alone in it…it is there for anyone who studies history. Protestants also acknowledge it and that is one of the reasons they broke way from the Catholic Church. They also have noticed how far the Church has detracted from the primitive Church teachings, but unfortunately hey had no authority to do it…it was just good intentions, and that is not enough for God.

In this process of uncovering history and stating their position, Mormons inevitably will have to expose some unpleasant facts about Catholic history that may make Catholics feel uncomfortable with. It is not throwing mud or being anti Catholic.

By the way I do believe that theologians from most Churches study Mormonism and they do try to find weakness in their arguments, you will easily see this in negative articles about Mormons all over the internet. I talked to a father of the Catholic Church in Brazil and he told me that they studied it when he attended theological school.

Other denominations also have their opinions about the history of the Catholic Church, for example this one:

*“Catholic theologians made a great mistake in the Middle Ages. They assumed the Scriptures taught things about the material universe which were, in fact, false interpretations or assumptions. Perhaps for the masses, it was enough to listen to and believe dogmas with the stamped sanction of “Church authority.” But for THINKING men, “Renaissance Man,” for scientists who wished us to “prove all things,” as the Scriptures themselves tell us to do (I Thessalonians 5:21), mere recitation of Church authority or tradition was not enough.” *

hope-of-israel.org/lifeadam.htm

This broad selection of quotations provides clear support for the idea that the doctrines and practice of the Early Church of the apostles had been altered dramatically within a few centuries at most:

Will Durant, "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. The Greek mind, dying, came to a transmigrated [new] life in the theology and liturgy of the Church."

Stuart Hall: ***“Fourth century orthodoxy is not the same as what Peter and Paul believed, any more than modern Roman Catholicism or Anglicanism is…" ***

Thomas Jefferson, though surely not a cleric, was a great student of Christianity. Even he acknowledged the loss of the original gospel and said that he looked forward to "the prospect of a restoration of primitive Christianity. I must leave to younger athletes to encounter and lop off the false branches which have been engrafted into it by the mythologies of the middle and modern ages"

Philip Smith: "The sad truth is that as soon as Christianity was generally diffused, it began to absorb corruptions from all the lands in which it was planted, and to reflect the complexion of all their systems of religion and philosophy."

J.W.C. Wand (former Anglican Bishop of London) “the new Christian church was frankly national. The people were converted en bloc; the temples were turned into churches and the priests were ordained into the Christian ministry.”

Robert Wilken, professor of the history of Christianity at the University of Virginia, wrote ***“only a few enterprising intellectuals, and only after more than one hundred years of Christian history, had begun to take the risk of expressing Christian beliefs within the philosophical ideas current in the Greco Roman world. Most Christians were against to such attempts. As late as the third century, after the apologetic movement had introduced Greek ideas into Christian thinking, Christian preachers complained that the rank and file opposed such ideas.” ***

en.fairmormon.org/Apostasy/Patristic_evidence_of
All assertions and opinions; a conspiracy theory that pointedly ignores the obvious.
 
Please review the 7th Chapter of Acts for the proper spelling of my name.
I do agree that if Catholicism was the uninterrupted Church Christ established on the earth, then there would be no need for Mormonism. Mormonism, as you know, claims restoration of what was lost and corrupted.
Actually, if there was a Church of Former-Day-Saints that had not become ‘lost and corrupted’ then there would be no need for Mormonism.
Mormonism has not only provided biblical and historical evidences of an apostasy, but also the restoration.
No they have not provided any evidence at all of a Church of Former Day Saints, or an Apostasy.

Because the Catholic Church is the uninterrupted Church of Christ, Mormons have a need to claim it was the Catholic Church that went into Apostasy. That is why Mormonism is anti-Catholic and has to reject history, science, and reason. It is why you have to ignored posts like:
Joseph Smith, as a prophecy and recorded in Mormon scripture (Pearl of Great Price, History of Joseph Smith, verse 34), said the Book of Mormon was a historical book about ALL the American Indians. Science has proven that to be false.
The same guys that said the Book of Mormon was about the source of ALL the American Indians also invented:
exaltation,
polygamy,
Melchizedek Priesthood,
excommunicating Apostles,
prophets leading the church,
blood atonement, and
water baptism on behalf of the dead.
None of these have ever been Christian practices or teachings. Mormonism is an invention of Joseph Smith not a restoration.
The is NO historical, scientific, reasonable support of Mormonism. It in an invention of Joseph Smith in 19th century America.

Because you can’t prove Mormonism to be true, you have to slander the Catholic Church, with irrational, ahistorical propaganda.
Wow…do you realize that I work and have a busy life?
I will respond your question…I already explained why I did not respond YET!!
So instead of defending Mormonism with facts from history to show us the Former-Day-Saint Church, or explain Joseph Smith’s false revelation about the Book of Mormon, you choose to take another shot at the Catholic Church
Thomas Jefferson, though surely not a cleric, was a great student of Christianity. Even he acknowledged the loss of the original gospel and said that he looked forward to "the prospect of a restoration of primitive Christianity. I must leave to younger athletes to encounter and lop off the false branches which have been engrafted into it by the mythologies of the middle and modern ages”
If you bothered to read the original source you would find that Jefferson was ridiculing Calvinism and its teaching about a restoration, three Gods, and reason in religion is of unlawful use. While Jefferson may have been wrong about the teaching of Calvin it sounds to me like he was condemning Mormonism but it hadn’t been invented yet.

Cherry picking quotes is very common in Mormonism.

Still waiting for your defense of the two posts I repeated here, and you have ignored several times
 
If you are an ex Mormon, you know that we don’t preach against any religion from the pulpit, printed press or internet or any other way. In the Mormon Church that I know we are taught by the leaders verbally and in writing to respect other religions and people form any other faith. That is a Mormon teaching…that has been my experience.

In a way you probably have NOT seen me offend any member here in my posts, at least not deliberately, however many have offended me and my faith on purpose. I have adopted the teaching of the LDS Church to respect people and their beliefs and I do my best to live that.
Pontificating on the part of LDS leaders against Christian doctrines is common. The Book of Mormon calls infant baptism an abomination. These are examples of preaching against other religions. Mormonism is founded on an anti-Christian ideology. You are yourself an example…see any of your posts about Catholicism or general Christianity. Why pretend otherwise?

Maybe you fart in a room full of people because you don’t think it is offensive, but everyone in the room is actually, offended. 😛
 
Let me clarify…when I say I heard something about the Catholic Church, I refer to my personal conversation with a few members, in which I asked certain questions, specially because I used to be Catholic. Sometimes a friend would bring something up in a personal conversation…you have to remember, most Mormons from Brazil are converts from Catholicism and the comparison once in a while would come up in personal conversation. However, I attended Institute of Religion, Seminary, Sunday School, Priesthood meetings, Bishopric meetings…and I never heard any conversation or bashing of any religion.

If you are an ex Mormon, you know that we don’t preach against any religion from the pulpit, printed press or internet or any other way. In the Mormon Church that I know we are taught by the leaders verbally and in writing to respect other religions and people form any other faith. That is a Mormon teaching…that has been my experience.

In a way you probably have NOT seen me offend any member here in my posts, at least not deliberately, however many have offended me and my faith on purpose. I have adopted the teaching of the LDS Church to respect people and their beliefs and I do my best to live that.
One of your apostles mocked the beliefs of Trinitarians in his general conference speech he had the audience tittering over the beliefs of others. And of course your missionaries preach against all Christian religions they encounter, and your membership is exhorted to do the same with every non-member they meet.
 
Steven,

I do agree that if Catholicism was the uninterrupted Church Christ established on the earth, then there would be no need for Mormonism. Mormonism, as you know, claims restoration of what was lost and corrupted. Mormonism has not only provided biblical and historical evidences of an apostasy, but also the restoration. The Bible attests not only to an apostasy, but also to a restoration before the second coming of Christ and that is where the Mormons come in.

That is simply false. There is absolutely NO prophesy in the Bible of a total worldwide, God-is-leaving everyone Apostasy. In fact, Jesus said He would NEVER leave and hell would NEVER prevail. Are you saying Jesus lied to us?

The only reason Mormonism exists is to fulfill this vacuum.

No. momonism exists because a convicted con man heard of people having visions of God visiting and decided to make up his own visitation story that was so dishonest that he could not keep his story straight, changing the story and adding to it over 9 different versions. It was just another con.

By the way I do believe that theologians from most Churches study Mormonism and they do try to find weakness in their arguments, you will easily see this in negative articles about Mormons all over the internet. I talked to a father of the Catholic Church in Brazil and he told me that they studied it when he attended theological school.

Ok…tell you what. IF it is a "restoration, you should be able to easily prove that is is exactly like the early church…right? So…show me
  1. Where the early church had 15 apostles like you do
  2. Where the early church had Stakes
  3. Where the early church had presidents
  4. Where the early church had Relief Society.
  5. Where the early did marriages for the dead
  6. Where the early church decided to have temples all over Christendom
  7. Where the early church refused to let blacks hold the priesthood
  8. Where the early church was racist against blacks
  9. Where the early church had blood oaths
  10. Where the early church had its leaders steal wives from other members
  11. Where the early church used bread and water in its meetings
  12. Where the early church assigned tiics for children to give talks during the weekly meeting
  13. Where the early church had teenagers blessing the Eucharist
Now, I know you will dodge this challenge like you have dodged all challenges. But, I am truly anxious for you to show me where these things existed in the early church you allegedly have restored

I will be waiting.
 
Pontificating on the part of LDS leaders against Christian doctrines is common. The Book of Mormon calls infant baptism an abomination. These are examples of preaching against other religions. Mormonism is founded on an anti-Christian ideology. You are yourself an example…see any of your posts about Catholicism or general Christianity. Why pretend otherwise?

Maybe you fart in a room full of people because you don’t think it is offensive, but everyone in the room is actually, offended. 😛
Humm…what would you think of Jesus if you were a Pharisee? Christ denounced wrong beliefs of some Jewish sects. Paul also did similarly. Were they farting in the room?

The Jewish sects were the established religion and Christ denounced the established religion that was there for almost 2 thousand years and founded his own church with his own doctrine…I can understand why people would get upset.
 
Where the early church had its leaders steal wives from other members
Or passed on a married woman from one leader to the next like some trophy of office.
Or allowed a man to marry a woman and marry her young daughter.
Or teaching that one can accept the marriage of a daughter in exchange for salvation.
 
Or passed on a married woman from one leader to the next like some trophy of office.
Or allowed a man to marry a woman and marry her young daughter.
Or teaching that one can the marriage of a daughter for salvation.
or approach other members to wife swap like js did.

or appoint themselves as generals and mayors in the early church as js did.
 
Let me clarify…when I say I heard something about the Catholic Church, I refer to my personal conversation with a few members, in which I asked certain questions, specially because I used to be Catholic. Sometimes a friend would bring something up in a personal conversation…you have to remember, most Mormons from Brazil are converts from Catholicism and the comparison once in a while would come up in personal conversation. However, I attended Institute of Religion, Seminary, Sunday School, Priesthood meetings, Bishopric meetings…and I never heard any conversation or bashing of any religion.

If you are an ex Mormon, you know that we don’t preach against any religion from the pulpit, printed press or internet or any other way. In the Mormon Church that I know we are taught by the leaders verbally and in writing to respect other religions and people form any other faith. That is a Mormon teaching…that has been my experience.

In a way you probably have NOT seen me offend any member here in my posts, at least not deliberately, however many have offended me and my faith on purpose. I have adopted the teaching of the LDS Church to respect people and their beliefs and I do my best to live that.
Your insistence that no discussion of other religion takes place in any of your meetings is undermined by your belief that all other religions teach and talk about Mormonism.
 
I am hoping that Evan is looking for evidence to respond to my challenge.
 
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