False Prophets the most used comeback!

[Gabriel_of_12]

There are pages and pages of Quotes as to what to watch out for for False Prophets, there is just as many as how to find, Judge and accept a True Prophet.

If there was not to be another True Prophet, why warn about False Prophets and why tell you how to recognize a True one?

One has to consider how deep the error of our thoughts penetrated our core beliefs. This could be why there are so many warnings, consider this passage;

2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

What if the error of interpretation started early and has penetrated deep into the faith of Christ, would this not support all the warnings?

Jesus promised us another advocate and sent Him the HOly Spirt from the Father in heaven. Oour Paraclete will come in the spirit of truth. The Holy SPirit will declare and reveal aii that God sends him to reveal to our humanity.

Do you claim your prophet comes.as.our promised advocate, as does Islam makes this false claim that Jesus sent Muhammad to be.the ptomised paraclete to come?

 

[vsedriver]

However, as the Bible has indicated, there WILL be TRUE PROPHETS that will be sent from God

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no true prophet would teach outside of Christ’s Church.

 

[Servant19]

no true prophet would teach outside of Christ’s Church.

Please provide the source for this vse

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[vsedriver]

Would not I be part of the Assembly/Church if I attest “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” to be true?

Regards Tony

depends on your understanding who the Messiah is and what it means to be the Son of the living God.

For many profess this but are not in agreement on what it means. If your understanding is correct you would be Christian and better still Catholic.

 

[vsedriver]

Please provide the source for this vse

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logic

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Please provide the source for this vse

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Are you suggesting true prophets are outside of the body of Christ? Very well then but you realise Christian’s can’t accept that for it would be making that person equal to Jesus and Jesus is quite simply the greatest.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Is this the Rock on which the Church is to be built? - Matthew 16:13 - 16

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Thus was it not belief in Christ as "the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” that is the Rock that forms the Foundation and if you have this it will not be overcome?

Would not I be part of the Assembly/Church if I attest “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” to be true?

Regards Tony

The problem is that what Peter meant by the messiah the son of the living God is not what 21st century bahai who have to ignore any and all context or history as to what such terms would have meant in the first place. You will readily and whenever possible interpret something to your liking regaurdless of who said it and what they meant, like all the bahai who have engaged in these threads in the past. Whats a word mean anyway? Whatever you say it means right?

 

[tonyfish58]

tonyfish58;11643770:

Do you claim your prophet comes as our promised advocate, as does Islam makes this false claim that Jesus sent Muhammad to be.the promised Paraclete to come?

I claim not a thing, Gabriel of 12, I am just a wayward soul in need of God

Firstly Muhammad’s word in the Koran explains what His message from God is for and about. It also tells of the Resurrection awaited by mankind. If one wishes to know the Truth re Muhammad, that would be the Place to Start.

The Most Holy Tablet will answer all your questions, if you find time it is well worth the read. It will answer the question you asked of me as this Tablet by Baha’u’llah is a reply to your specific question… This is the link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-3.html

God Bless and I hope you can find those answers!

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Gabriel of 12;11646807:

I claim not a thing, Gabriel of 12, I am just a wayward soul in need of God

Firstly Muhammad’s word in the Koran explains what His message from God is for and about. It also tells of the Resurrection awaited by mankind. If one wishes to know the Truth re Muhammad, that would be the Place to Start.

The Most Holy Tablet will answer all your questions, if you find time it is well worth the read. It will answer the question you asked of me as this Tablet by Baha’u’llah is a reply to your specific question… This is the link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-3.html

God Bless and I hope you can find those answers!

Regards Tony

Except what ressurection in islam means is likely different than what it means in bahai. given that the quran was influenced by Christianity and Judaism and both teach that the ressurection is one of the body physically raising and being perfected, it likely means that. However this contradicts bahai, thus you mean something totally different by ressurection. It doesn’t help you to try and trick people in to getting them to think they agree with you on some points.

Also the paraclete is the holy spirit as indicated in the text of the new testament time and again to the bahai. You make the same argument but whenever the argument is made against you, you cannot respond to it. You know the Holy spirit is niether muhammad nor Hussain yet muslims and bahai persist in perpetuating the myth.

 

[tonyfish58]

depends on your understanding who the Messiah is and what it means to be the Son of the living God.For many profess this but are not in agreement on what it means. If your understanding is correct you would be Christian and better still Catholic.

So did Christ define this Answer? Or is the Answer simply what it is!

Did others define the meaning of this answer for us?

Who defines what is True Love for Christ, then in another way, what is Real Love for Christ Would not Works and Actions attest to ones Belief?

Turn the other cheek,
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,
Love thy neighbor etc etc…

If man is defining all these answers, would not history prove this may be a problem?

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Are you suggesting true prophets are outside of the body of Christ? Very well then but you realise Christian’s can’t accept that for it would be making that person equal to Jesus and Jesus is quite simply the greatest.

IgnatianPhilo - You have asked a good question and you are right! They are all as you have confirmed Christ to be “quite simply the greatest”. They are all the First and the Last!

We can Love them all as we Love Christ, that is, may our Soul be a sacrifice for that Love!

The bodies are not the same and born of different mothers, but they are One with the same Message given by God to target the specific audiences in need of different laws to suit the age they came. This is a fundamental teaching of Baha’u’llah.

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

So did Christ define this Answer? Or is the Answer simply what it is!

Did others define the meaning of this answer for us?

Who defines what is True Love for Christ, then in another way, what is Real Love for Christ Would not Works and Actions attest to ones Belief?

Turn the other cheek,
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,
Love thy neighbor etc etc…

If man is defining all these answers, would not history prove this may be a problem?

God Bless and Regards Tony

If we are asking what did Christ mean, it meant messiah, the one who would fulfill the promises of the Old testament and usher in the kingdom of God. Jesus understood himself to be that Christ that was expected, as did the apostles although they were surprised by the end result of just who this Christ he claimed to be was.

As for son of God, i do not think we can take it in the generic sense of being a son of God but in the unique sense as John tells us in his first chapter. Monogenes is the word used, often translated only begotten or otherwise Unique and this is shown in the parable of the wicked tenants. The Owner of the vineyard sends his servents the prophets who are persecuted and then in the end sends his son and is killed. This parable in the gospels shows that Christ had a radical view of himself, he was not merely a follower of God, a son of God as all of us are, but he is the unique son of God who came down from heaven.

This would make him above all that came before him and Peter understood this and confessed this to be the case. the bahai however cannot believe Jesus was utterly unique from Moses or Abraham or the God denying Budha, he must be totally equal to them.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

IgnatianPhilo - You have asked a good question and you are right! They are all as you have confirmed Christ to be “quite simply the greatest”. They are all the First and the Last!

We can Love them all as we Love Christ, that is, may our Soul be a sacrifice for that Love!

The bodies are not the same and born of different mothers, but they are One with the same Message given by God to target the specific audiences in need of different laws to suit the age they came. This is a fundamental teaching of Baha’u’llah.

Regards Tony

No they are not all the greatest. Moses sinned against God and was prevented going into the holy land. You have to deny this account and ignore its existence to maintain your claim they were all perfect. Abraham instead of being patient conceived a son by a hand maiden which was a mistake he should not have committed. You claim your prophet is an equal salvation to yourself with Jesus and I can only repeat the apostolic mantra in your face, there is no other name under heaven by which you can be saved other than JEsus Christ. You are teaching a different gospel than what has been received.

 

[tonyfish58]

The problem is that what Peter meant by the messiah the son of the living God is not what 21st century bahai who have to ignore any and all context or history as to what such terms would have meant in the first place. You will readily and whenever possible interpret something to your liking regaurdless of who said it and what they meant, like all the bahai who have engaged in these threads in the past. Whats a word mean anyway? Whatever you say it means right?

What are Words if they do not bring us to Love the One and Only God

Would not Gods Word have this aim?

If we consider this Aim and then take a look at Religious Scripture a unity is Found!

This takes considerable effort. Consider a man of great learning may have spent years of study to understand what is meant by it all only to find a simple fisherman gets it right and He got it wrong! How could this be.

This is the essence, that is the Love of God. Words are supplementary to this. If we use words to divide, would we not be better off with out them and just Love God together in silence?

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

tonyfish58;11648092:

Except what ressurection in islam means is likely different than what it means in bahai. given that the quran was influenced by Christianity and Judaism and both teach that the ressurection is one of the body physically raising and being perfected, it likely means that. However this contradicts bahai, thus you mean something totally different by ressurection. It doesn’t help you to try and trick people in to getting them to think they agree with you on some points.

Also the paraclete is the holy spirit as indicated in the text of the new testament time and again to the bahai. You make the same argument but whenever the argument is made against you, you cannot respond to it. You know the Holy spirit is niether muhammad nor Hussain yet muslims and bahai persist in perpetuating the myth.

I only try to share the Love of God

I look for this Love in all the religious Scriptures. It is in all of them, it is not exclusive. It is world embracing and all mankind is wrapped within its embrace.

This is no trick, either Love for God is True Love or it is not!

I force no one to go beyond what they want to do, it is there choice. I give my view of this all encompassing Love based on all the Scriptures of the Past, I draw on my current thoughts from the last of the revealed scriptures, that is the Writings of the Baha’i faith.

But in all reality, these thoughts and this Love can be drawn from them all, be it the Bible, the Koran or other divinely revealed Scripture!

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

What are Words if they do not bring us to Love the One and Only God

Would not Gods Word have this aim?

If we consider this Aim and then take a look at Religious Scripture a unity is Found!

This takes considerable effort. Consider a man of great learning may have spent years of study to understand what is meant by it all only to find a simple fisherman gets it right and He got it wrong! How could this be.

This is the essence, that is the Love of God. Words are supplementary to this. If we use words to divide, would we not be better off with out them and just Love God together in silence?

God Bless and Regards Tony

So when I read about God commanding the israelites to slaughter without mercy the inhabitants of cities, women, men, infants, cattle and etc I should not read it as if God were actually commanding such actions, as if God had no right to do so, but instead I should interpret it as the love of God? Your God is a God with so much love that I dare say he has no heart to condemn people, he has no heart to punish even the most vile God hater and desecrator. Keep your God, your God who loves but cannot punish, cannot be just, who must reinvent the wheel every thousand or so years and who tries to futily save that which cannot be saved. That is not a God who loves, that is a God who is desperate and needs us instead of us needing him.

This is honestly what I think when I hear such reasoning. Oh I can’t interpret it that way, but must interpret it in a spirit of love, ignore history, ignore context, ignore everything except love. See I do think this scripture is loving but not the sort of love you have in mind. The sort of love which cannot bare to dissagree with anything, that must twist words away from what they might actually mean to get it into a neat and politically correct view of love. Thats not really love, thats desperation.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

IgnatianPhilo;11648102:

I only try to share the Love of God

I look for this Love in all the religious Scriptures. It is in all of them, it is not exclusive. It is world embracing and all mankind is wrapped within its embrace.

This is no trick, either Love for God is True Love or it is not!

I force no one to go beyond what they want to do, it is there choice. I give my view of this all encompassing Love based on all the Scriptures of the Past, I draw on my current thoughts from the last of the revealed scriptures, that is the Writings of the Baha’i faith.

But in all reality, these thoughts and this Love can be drawn from them all, be it the Bible, the Koran or other divinely revealed Scripture!

God Bless and Regards Tony

You have to ignore reality to maintain the picture you want. Yours is a parody of love that with holds the truth because others can’t bare it. You refuse to deal with what the scripture means because you know you cannot demonstrate what it means because it contradicts you. You appeal to this apparently new method of interpretation, see love in all aspects of the scripture, but that isn’t what we are supposed to do. When we read the bible what we should be looking for in every nook is Jesus Christ because in the end its all about Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ.

 

[tonyfish58]

Without going through a great deal of specific questions posted above, this is my take on the subject of Gods Love.

Yes God is Love, this Love embraces all things - Everything that happens to man as an individual or as a whole is a direct result of Cause and Effect. All creation is a result of Gods Love, thus any event has an ending within that Love. We may not see the wisdom in all of what happens, but the Love of God tests no man beyond His capacity.

All of mankind, nay all existence is created, exists and then at its end is drawn in to this Love.

This Biblical Passage gives us a glimpse of how this Love should Work Matthew 5:44 “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you”.

God Bless all in His all encompassing Love - Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

In other words, where ever it is convenient in the Baha’i Faith to make Jesus’
words Jesus’ or God’s, is where you draw the line. Context matters not?

Of course context matters. But when Jesus says that none of His Words are from Him but from the Father, I believe Him. What other meaning or context is there?

It is clear that, at that moment, the human Jesus is telling us that the Divine Christ is in communion with the Father, and advising us that all His Revelation stems from the Father.

It’s a very simple and logical conclusion

Let me zoom in then:And I will pour out upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace, and of prayers: and they shall look upon me, whom they have pierced: and they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for an only son, and they shall grieve over him, as the manner is to grieve for the death of the firstborn. In that day there shall be a great lamentation in Jerusalem like the lamentation of Adadremmon in the plain of Mageddon. And the land shall mourn: families and families apart: the families of the house of David apart, and their women apart: The families of the house of Nathan apart, and their women apart: the families of the house of Levi apart, and their women apart: the families of Semei apart, and their women apart. All the rest of the families, families and families apart, and their women apart.
– (Zechariah 12:10-14)
Chapter 12 is a prophecy is talking about the End of Days, the speaker of YHWH who
is the Divine Creator, not manifestation, and when he comes, the inhabitants of Israel
will see YHWH whom they have pierced, who is Jesus, not Baha’u’llah. The Speaker
continues to speak about him, proceeding from first person to third person, “look up-
on me” to “mourn for HIM”, still in context speaking of YHWH, as well as Jesus who
is the same being. Read Chapter 12 again.

Don’t think Zechariah is talking about Jesus? Cross reference then with John,Behold, he cometh with the clouds, and **every eye shall see him, and **
they also that pierced him. And all the tribes of the earth shall be-
wail themselves because of him. Even so. Amen.
– (Revelation 1:7)

I’m not sure if God (who is talking THROUGH Zechariah by the way) is referring here to Jesus.

Might I remind you that the Bab, too, was pierced?

Lastly, we have established that the “cloud” has a spiritual meaning. When Christ returns, He will not be literally riding on a cloud. In fact the “physical” attributes of His Return are all speculative at best…

You will notice that the page brought up Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, etc,
progressive revelations, manifestations, and so forth, 1800s, and how some eight
pages before appears “To the people of Israel that person is Moses; to the Hindu,
it is Krishna; to the Zoroastrians, Zoroaster; to the Buddhists, it is Buddha; to the
Christians,Jesus the Christ; to the Muslims, it is Muhammad and to the Bahá’ís,
it is Bahá’u’lláh” (page 165)… it is talking Baha’i here.

That’s fine, he’s talking Bahai here, but there’s a heck of a lot of stuff in that book that has nothing related to the Bahai Faith.

Might I humbly remind you, again, this is not a Bahai book?

You might not have made up Muhammad Natiq yourself, but again I find hardly
anything that tells me of his existence beyond mostly Baha’i sources. Perhaps
then you should send the Persian to me please. No screen shots though, just
the links.

Actually the “bahai-library.com” link from the google search you posted contains the Persian from Natiqs book. It is at the bottom of the letter from the Universal House of Justice

Which brings us back to Zechariah 12, which tells us that this return of Jesus will not oc-
cur until the End of Days, and by then we will be able to identify him, by the holes in his
hands, feet, even by his side which was pierced.

Again, these physical marks etc on Jesus body on His return are based on speculation.

Do you have any other sources other than Zech 12? As I say, this chapter may just as easily be referring to the Bab

.

 

[Servant19]

logic

So your thoughts are not founded on Scripture then vse?

I can make many conclusions about many things, if I wanted to be logical

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