False Prophets the most used comeback!

[Servant19]

Servant19;11651640:

it is not considered ‘evil’ for a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic. It would be unwise to do so because scripture tells us not to be unevenly yoked. It is better for a family to be of one faith. Marriage is stressful enough without the family religious wars.

papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g16quasv.htm

“Nevertheless, it is no small consolation that at the same time as We were informed of this growing evil, We have likewise learned of your efforts and those of your colleagues to remedy it opportunely.”

“Whatever be the laws regarding the matter, the bishop and pastors ought to see that marriages of this nature not take place…”

You don’t have to be a prophet to know we are all one human family. Even athiests know that. Why would a prophet say it is a blessing of God that two people of different faiths marry? Isn’t it a blessing when anyone gets married? This just doesn’t make him sound like a prophet.

Yes, we are one human family.

What would you consider the meaning of “oneness” is?

It is absolutely a blessing to have two people from diverse backgrounds and beliefs to raise offspring that can live their life according to the common principles of morality shared by both parents’ religions.

This encourages a collaborative approach in ALL THINGS, a system of uniting peoples sadly missing in many aspects of gloabl life, which when taught, within a family unit, will raise a child which can be “light upon light” for all who may cross his/her path, a child that truly sees Christ in ALL PEOPLE, not just those who profess one faith or another

.

 

[Servant19]

so you think God is feeding mankind bits and pieces, widely scattered around the world points of view because we are too ignorant to know the fullness of the Truth?

No dear friend

God gave all the Truth, injected Spirit into the Truth and then taught how to apply that Truth in a global village that is growing increasingly complex and evolving on an hourly basis these days.

Moses provided Truth. The Commandments are what most Christian communities are based on, but Jesus injected SPIRIT into those Laws

Those Commandments and that Spirit is ALIVE today, but how does it look in a corporate setting?
How does it look in a government setting?
How does it look in an environmental setting?
How does it look in a community service setting?

These are all questions not directly addressed in Jesus lifetime, and are still not being addressed…God gives guidance for these things, and has done in the past and will do into the future

I say no loving God would do something that evil. It causes nothing but chaos and confusion. No, I say God sent his only begotten son to give us the tools we need to repair our relationship with God the Father, to learn to live and love eachother, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Jesus did this when he taught his apostles and they intern carried on by forming the One Holy Apostolic Church.

It is pleasing to God that we be of one mind, one faith. You should read my sig.

Of course dear friend, one mind, one faith

I would advise that a complete review of history will enlighten us as to what a tremendous shortcoming we have as human beings when relying on just the Holy Spirit to empower “others”…you may be full of the Holy Spirit, but how can we fill others with that Holy Spirit too?

God has given us guidance on this
(it certainly is not chaotic, its very systematic and only requires others to join the “spiritualization” process, which will bring all to Christ, not necessarily in name, but in SPIRIT (that is true oneness) )

.

 

[tonyfish58]

So God did not give us a full picture? They why did Jesus spend 3 years teaching?

God gave what mankind could handle at that time and then He said - John 16:12-15 King James Version (KJV)

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you

Baha’u’llah is the one saying more unto us as foretold by Christ

But remember all that Baha’u’llah has told us is in the Bible, Baha’u’llah has not added He has given the Key to understand it in it entirety.

God Bless & Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

all men and women who faithfully profess and teach the RC faith are true prophets.

all men and women who profess and teach anything contrary to the RC faith are false prophets.

that is such a simple question to answer.

Why?

How do you know for sure that Jesus was a true Prophet?

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[Vouthon]

papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g16quasv.htm

“Nevertheless, it is no small consolation that at the same time as We were informed of this growing evil, We have likewise learned of your efforts and those of your colleagues to remedy it opportunely.”

“Whatever be the laws regarding the matter, the bishop and pastors ought to see that marriages of this nature not take place…”
.

Servant, that encyclical my friend is from 1840 The church today states quite plainly in the Catechism:

Mixed marriages and disparity of cult

1633 In many countries the situation of a mixed marriage (marriage between a Catholic and a baptized non-Catholic) often arises. It requires particular attention on the part of couples and their pastors. A case of marriage with disparity of cult (between a Catholic and a non-baptized person) requires even greater circumspection.

1634 Difference of confession between the spouses does not constitute an insurmountable obstacle for marriage, when they succeed in placing in common what they have received from their respective communities, and learn from each other the way in which each lives in fidelity to Christ. But the difficulties of mixed marriages must not be underestimated. They arise from the fact that the separation of Christians has not yet been overcome. The spouses risk experiencing the tragedy of Christian disunity even in the heart of their own home. Disparity of cult can further aggravate these difficulties. Differences about faith and the very notion of marriage, but also different religious mentalities, can become sources of tension in marriage, especially as regards the education of children. The temptation to religious indifference can then arise. …

In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage.138 This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage…

1636 Through ecumenical dialogue Christian communities in many regions have been able to put into effect a common pastoral practice for mixed marriages. Its task is to help such couples live out their particular situation in the light of faith, overcome the tensions between the couple’s obligations to each other and towards their ecclesial communities, and encourage the flowering of what is common to them in faith and respect for what separates them.

1637** In marriages with disparity of cult the Catholic spouse has a particular task: "For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband**."140

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm

The question of should marry into what community is a pastoral matter. Doctrinally the church has never defined that is illegal or inherently immoral to marry a non-Christian. Pastorally speaking, under different cultural contexts, it has either been more open to or discouraged it depending on societal norms.

Thus the response to interfaith marriage in the pluralistic Roman state of antiquity and the heavily uniform, overtly and overwhelmingly Catholic state under the papal sovereignty in 1840s Italy in a still Christian western world without modern globalization, called for very different responses.

Under the pluralistic Roman Empire, interfaith marriage between Christians and pagans was common and St. Paul did not condemn it:

"…If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.

And if any woman has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce her husband.

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through the believing wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through the believing husband…"

- 1 Corinthians 7:12-14

As you can see, Paul actually considered it a blessing for a non-Christian to have a Christian husband or wife, since it helps “sanctify” them from sin. Unlike with Islamic law, in which it is legitimate for a male Muslim to marry a woman from among the People of the Book but not a female Muslim, Paul here recognizes that both women and men will marry non-believers.

The situation in 1840 is quite different from the state of the world today in 2014. The church therefore has a different response. In 1840, inter-marriages would have been seen as a symptom of the secularization creeping into Italy from the rest of the western world. So yes, describing it as an “evil” in that era would have been accurate. The church saw itself as under attack by rabidly anti-clerical Italian nationalists with a utopian worldview.

Post-Vatican II it has simply been seen as the reality in a transnational, globalizing and pluralistic society and so it would not be spoken today as an “evil”, even though most religions would still see it as ideal to have marriage within that religion for the sake of harmony and oneness of purpose within a household (Ie Catholic school or secular one? Church on Sunday or Mosque on Friday?).

I know many Catholics who are happily and contentedly married to non-Christians, having received dispensations from the church to do so.

 

[eddie_too]

Jesus is not a prophet. Jesus is the Incarnate Word.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

We do not fully know what this oneness with the Father means, and we would not try to make doctrinal explanations either.

God and His nature are beyond human comprehension.

To think, as humans, that we can just extrapolate doctrines from a few sentences of Revelation from Jesus or Baha’u’llah is blasphemous and prideful in the face of our Creator.

I will not spend my whole life pondering it either.

Both Messengers of God (Jesus and Baha’u’llah) revealed Truths which have a much more DIRECT applicability to our lives which we should be discussing and exploring together, not what is the exact nature of an Unknown, Omnipotent Being…

.

Stop speaking nonsense phrases which mean nothing to you then (for the mere reason you cannot tell me what it means) and mean something totally different to the person you are speaking to. That is when i hear the phrase Jesus is one with the father I hear trinitarian theology primarily and I think this is what you were trying to imply with your prophet.

I do not believe your prophet to be “one” with God in any sense, especially non meaningful senses. You should speak clearly and definetely and not force us to accept your mysteries you take for granted, or should I force you to accept Hesychasm? No I should not unless you already believe.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

God gave what mankind could handle at that time and then He said - John 16:12-15 King James Version (KJV)

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you

Baha’u’llah is the one saying more unto us as foretold by Christ

But remember all that Baha’u’llah has told us is in the Bible, Baha’u’llah has not added He has given the Key to understand it in it entirety.

God Bless & Regards Tony

Tony, does your community and your prophet quote from and gets it’s biblical references from the King James Version of the bible?

The first tablet you referenced did not reveal the name Jesus, to me. Is your seer present in body? Does he have an address?

 

[eddie_too]

apparently the bahai believe that somewhere in the thousands and thousands of pages the bahaullah issued there is THE key that Jesus gave to Peter.

the problem is that no one can identify it in those writings.

it is very easy to find it in the new testament. the reference is specific and concise.

sadly, non-christians do not realize that the keys that Jesus refers to when giving them to Peter is, at least in one sense, and in the most accurate sense, the giving of Jesus’ authority to Peter to be exercised by Peter.

christians have no confusion about the meaning of this passage, although they do debate exactly to what extent Jesus gave His authority to Peter; and, some debate whether or not this authority was intended to exist throughout mankind’s remaining time on earth.

 

[tonyfish58]

Tony, does your community and your prophet quote from and gets it’s biblical references from the King James Version of the bible?

The first tablet you referenced did not reveal the name Jesus, to me. Is your seer present in body? Does he have an address?

Gabriel of 12 - I will give my ideas on the last question as how I feel re your questions

As for the Bible - this link is the full discussion - bahai-library.com/uhj_preferred_translation_bible

The Guardian’s response appears in a letter written on his behalf, where we read:

Shoghi Effendi himself uses the King James version of the Bible, both because it is an authoritative one and in beautiful English. (28 October 1949 to an individual believer; published in "Bahá'í News", no. 228, February 1950, p. 4).

The House of Justice points out, however, that there is nothing in statements made by Shoghi Effendi to indicate that the friends may not use other translations of the Bible.
(2 December 1987 to a National Spiritual Assembly)

The House of Justice acknowledges your letter of October 30th inquiring whether it is permissible to read from other versions of the Bible than the King James Authorized Version. We are instructed to say that while there do not appear to be any grounds for limiting selected readings from the Bible to the Authorized Version only, the decision is left entirely to your discretion. (13 November 1974 to a National Spiritual Assembly)

As to Baha’u’llah - His address and reality is exactly as to what is Christ’s

Where can we find them! Look within oneself, in to the depth of ones Heart and let the all pervading Love encompass all!

God Bless & Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Jesus is not a prophet. Jesus is the Incarnate Word.

bartleby.com/236/58.html

Quote from By William Blake (1757–1827)

“…Both read the Bible day and night,
But thou read’st black where I read white…”

God Bless & Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

bartleby.com/236/58.html

Quote from By William Blake (1757–1827)

“…Both read the Bible day and night,
But thou read’st black where I read white…”

God Bless & Regards Tony

Actually its John’s Gospel.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[tonyfish58]

Actually its John’s Gospel.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

May the Glory of the Father Bless you

Regards Tony

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12 - I will give my ideas on the last question as how I feel re your questions

As for the Bible - this link is the full discussion - bahai-library.com/uhj_preferred_translation_bible

The Guardian’s response appears in a letter written on his behalf, where we read:

Shoghi Effendi himself uses the King James version of the Bible, both because it is an authoritative one and in beautiful English. (28 October 1949 to an individual believer; published in "Bahá'í News", no. 228, February 1950, p. 4).

The House of Justice points out, however, that there is nothing in statements made by Shoghi Effendi to indicate that the friends may not use other translations of the Bible.
(2 December 1987 to a National Spiritual Assembly)

The House of Justice acknowledges your letter of October 30th inquiring whether it is permissible to read from other versions of the Bible than the King James Authorized Version. We are instructed to say that while there do not appear to be any grounds for limiting selected readings from the Bible to the Authorized Version only, the decision is left entirely to your discretion. (13 November 1974 to a National Spiritual Assembly)

As to Baha’u’llah - His address and reality is exactly as to what is Christ’s

Where can we find them! Look within oneself, in to the depth of ones Heart and let the all pervading Love encompass all!

God Bless & Regards Tony

Thank you for your responses. The Jesus I know in my heart is not the same Jesus you reference from your tablet, simply My Jesus is The Word of God.

You have my mutual respect as human beings in the dignity of life. I believe Truth does not need man to give testimony to Truth, Truth stands on it’s own. If your seer needs to discredit another’s faith to justify it’s truth, then I would invite your seer to meet my Jesus before discrediting His Mystical body.

Jesus of Nazareth, I know, to the Jesus you introduced I do not know, I’m just a wandering sheep who knows his Shepherds voice. I don’t recognize his voice from your tablet. Thank you. Show your truth from it’s own merit, not at the expense of any other.

Peace be with you.

 

[vsedriver]

papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g16quasv.htm

“Nevertheless, it is no small consolation that at the same time as We were informed of this growing evil, We have likewise learned of your efforts and those of your colleagues to remedy it opportunely.”

“Whatever be the laws regarding the matter, the bishop and pastors ought to see that marriages of this nature not take place…”

you missed this part: Thus, from your letter We learn that in your dioceses an abuse has become common: namely, that marriages between Catholics and non-Catholics, without any previous dispensation from the Church and without necessary precautions, are dignified with priestly blessing and sacramental rites. It must be clear to you how deeply We are affected by this, especially since We perceive that once this license with regard to mixed marriages was introduced, it became widely disseminated. This in turn resulted in a rapidly spreading deadly indifference toward religion in your great kingdom, once so preeminent in the glory of the Catholic faith. Let us not be mistaken: We would scarcely have overlooked this practice if it had been known to Us earlier. This was the reason for Our silence. In the past the Apostolic See granted no dispensation whatsoever for entering such mixed marriages without the necessary preliminary conditions and without the customary regulations.

the apparant evil was in the marriages not going through church approval first. They aren’t evil just because they are outside of the faith but were done without proper preparation.

Yes, we are one human family.

What would you consider the meaning of “oneness” is?

we all share the same dna code.

It is absolutely a blessing to have two people from diverse backgrounds and beliefs to raise offspring that can live their life according to the common principles of morality shared by both parents’ religions.

statistics have shown that most children raised in a mixed religious environment tend to have no religion at all when they grow up.

This encourages a collaborative approach in ALL THINGS, a system of uniting peoples sadly missing in many aspects of gloabl life, which when taught, within a family unit, will raise a child which can be “light upon light” for all who may cross his/her path, a child that truly sees Christ in ALL PEOPLE, not just those who profess one faith or another

Christians do see Christ in All People that is why it is so important to spread the Truth he taught us. It is nto possible to accept all religions as equal. That is chaos.

 

[tonyfish58]

If your seer needs to discredit another’s faith to justify it’s truth, then I would invite your seer to meet my Jesus before discrediting His Mystical body.

We are all sheep in need of the Shepherd!

I will just like to reply to the above comments as your are free to follow your own heart, and may it take you in to Gods Great Love!

Just a point this Bible passage tells it how it is John 16:14 - He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Baha’u’llah discredits no Faith, He glorifies them and shows them unto us. This is a fundamental teaching of Baha’u’llah as Christ said it would be

Thank you for your time & God Bless - Regards Tony

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

We are all sheep in need of the Shepherd!

I will just like to reply to the above comments as your are free to follow your own heart, and may it take you in to Gods Great Love!

Just a point this Bible passage tells it how it is John 16:14 - He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Baha’u’llah discredits no Faith, He glorifies them and shows them unto us. This is a fundamental teaching of Baha’u’llah as Christ said it would be

Thank you for your time & God Bless - Regards Tony

That scripture works fine with the Catholic faith in the blessed Trinity. Jesus revealed the Trinity to our humanity of Three persons. Your seer just added a 4th person that does not exist in the divine revealed Trinity.

There is only one faith, one baptism in one Lord. You offend Catholicism by introducing another gospel in the form of a tablet and interpret scripture outside the divine revelation, these scriptures came from the same body the Church. Yet you, introduce a competing 4th person to the Trinity and a new faith, tat comes from another prophet?

The testimony of God came to us in blood, water and spirit, these three give testimony of Jesus, and know one can say Jesus is LORD WITHOUT THE Holy Spirit.

A Rock is never moved by every wind of doctrine that comes too late, especially Long after Jesus revealed all things for us to know.

Our advocate comes to call our minds to these already revealed revelations. Jesus did not say he would send us a tablet or another prophet.

Peace be with you.

 

[Servant19]

Servant, that encyclical my friend is from 1840 The church today states quite plainly in the Catechism:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm

The question of should marry into what community is a pastoral matter. Doctrinally the church has never defined that is illegal or inherently immoral to marry a non-Christian. Pastorally speaking, under different cultural contexts, it has either been more open to or discouraged it depending on societal norms.

Thus the response to interfaith marriage in the pluralistic Roman state of antiquity and the heavily uniform, overtly and overwhelmingly Catholic state under the papal sovereignty in 1840s Italy in a still Christian western world without modern globalization, called for very different responses.

Under the pluralistic Roman Empire, interfaith marriage between Christians and pagans was common and St. Paul did not condemn it:

As you can see, Paul actually considered it a blessing for a non-Christian to have a Christian husband or wife, since it helps “sanctify” them from sin. Unlike with Islamic law, in which it is legitimate for a male Muslim to marry a woman from among the People of the Book but not a female Muslim, Paul here recognizes that both women and men will marry non-believers.

The situation in 1840 is quite different from the state of the world today in 2014. The church therefore has a different response. In 1840, inter-marriages would have been seen as a symptom of the secularization creeping into Italy from the rest of the western world. So yes, describing it as an “evil” in that era would have been accurate. The church saw itself as under attack by rabidly anti-clerical Italian nationalists with a utopian worldview.

Post-Vatican II it has simply been seen as the reality in a transnational, globalizing and pluralistic society and so it would not be spoken today as an “evil”, even though most religions would still see it as ideal to have marriage within that religion for the sake of harmony and oneness of purpose within a household (Ie Catholic school or secular one? Church on Sunday or Mosque on Friday?).

I know many Catholics who are happily and contentedly married to non-Christians, having received dispensations from the church to do so.

God bless you brother Vouthon.

I appreciate that today Catholicism is very open to interfaith marriages.

The context of that post was not in any way to attack Catholicism, it was to demonstrate that the truth or falsity of a prophet is not determined by how closely that Prophet’s teachings is aligned with Catholicism.

vsedriver wrote:

In fact, if anyone claiming to be a prophet preached anything other than what the church teaches they would by definition be a false prophet…

So I tried to demonstrate what was in existence in 1840, the Pope saying that it is an evil to marry from other Faiths (even if it was a pastoral matter ), and a so called “false prophet” saying the exact opposite.

The statement from vsedriver was unfounded in my humble opinion, hence the purpose for this thread…

.

 

[PRmerger]

So why bother “test the Spirits”?

It makes Johns verse pointless…

.

So I can, er, “test the Spirits”, Servant.

That’s what is commanded in Scripture.

I do it every day, every time I read the posts here on the CAFs, some of which are clearly in conformity with the Spirit, and some which, frankly, come from the Author of Lies.

 

[Servant19]

So I can, er, “test the Spirits”, Servant.

That’s what is commanded in Scripture.

I do it every day, every time I read the posts here on the CAFs, some of which are clearly in conformity with the Spirit, and some which, frankly, come from the Author of Lies.

Thank you PR.

If logic tells you that there will never be another true prophet, why would you bother “testing”?

.