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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
A false-Christ.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
:bowdown: Not till His glorious arrival. Mums the word on public revelation.
Sort of, then I threw Genesis 16 in as a opposite example.
Its clear.
Lets dive right in.
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Shia_Muslim
Guest
Abraham committed adultery/fornication? 
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Servant19
Guest
I know, it’s incredibly messy.Abraham committed adultery/fornication?
Where these ideas and thoughts come from is anyone’s guess
.
.
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Yes, precisely.Abraham committed adultery/fornication?
Abraham was married to Sarah.
Sarah wasn’t bearing any children to Abraham like God promised (YET!).
Sarah then took matters into her own hands and offered her servant Hagar.
Genesis 16:3 does say that Abraham took Hagar as a second wife, though interestingly, Genesis 22:2 has God saying, “Take your son,
YOUR ONLY SON, whom you love, even Isaac, and get you into the land of vision: and there you shall offer him for a burnt offering upon
one of the mountains which I will tell you.” That kinda puts Ishmael in an awkward position.
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Servant19
Guest
We have already discussed this and you concluded correctly that from the passage:
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1John 4:1)
is clearly an indication that there WILL BE true prophets AFTER Jesus…and in order to discern the true from the false we should test them.
If there was to be no further Revelation, then this passage would read:
“Do not believe every spirit, there is nothing to test, every prophet from now on is a false one”
SIMPLE!
But it seems that in THESE LAST DAYS, people will continue to struggle to OVERCOME
This thread is to test the spirits of some of these so called “false prophets” which the Church has clearly not tested as instructed by God.
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
It comes from the BIBLE! On the other hand,
…:hypno:…
:hypno:BIBLE:hypno:
:hypno:-BAD!-:hypno:
…:hypno::hypno:…
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Okay, fine, I don’t personally believe any more prophets will come, but I’ll let you have that one.We have already discussed this and you concluded correctly that from the passage:
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1John 4:1)
is clearly an indication that there WILL BE true prophets AFTER Jesus…and in order to discern the true from the false we should test them.
If there was to be no further Revelation, then this passage would read:
“Do not believe every spirit, there is nothing to test, every prophet from now on is a false one”
SIMPLE!
But it seems that in THESE LAST DAYS, people will continue to struggle to OVERCOME
This thread is to test the spirits of some of these so called “false prophets” which the Church has clearly not tested as instructed by God.
Now what has been instructed by God to test prophets? (I know, but let’s see you get it).
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Servant19
Guest
Where in the Bible is Abraham accused of adultery??
Bible GOOD!!
Where?
To accuse Abraham of committing something He was not in any way privy to is blasphemy…
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Servant19
Guest
The fruits will be related to what God wishes to communicate via these Prophets.
God does not leave mankind unguided for 2000 years.
Either way, I look forward to your next post which contradicts 1John’s clear admonition
Maybe it’s time for you to read the words “Bible Baaaaaad…” directed at you. LOL
So for you it is also:
BIBLE BAAAAAD
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
No no, blasphemy is the act of insulting or showingWhere in the Bible is Abraham accused of adultery??
Bible GOOD!!
Where?
To accuse Abraham of committing something He was not in any way privy to is blasphemy…
contempt or lack of reverence for God, not Abraham.
Anyway, the words “Abraham committed Adultery” are not in the Bible as you’d demand.
Now if you want to take the Bible seriously, Hebrews 11:17-18 calls Isaac Abraham’s “only
son” (In the True Legitimate Sense), If you remember Genesis 22:2, GOD HIMSELF idenif-
ies Isaac as Abraham’s ONLY SON, so what does that make Ishmael to God? A not polite
word. The only real conclusion would be that Abraham did something that didn’t meet with
God’s desires, despite God permitting it.
“I believe that ignorance of the law is no excuse, and I’m quoting a New York City judge on this one.”
– (Ron White)
Abraham was a sinner.
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Except those after Jesus (so far at least).
Good thing he left us Scripture and a Church.
I don’t see how I contradict 1 John. I’m only disagreeing with how welcoming of other prophets you make it out to be.
Now the Test. WHAT IS THE TEST?
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tonyfish58
Guest
Gary - First you posted a quote above that you imputed to me, just remember it was your Quote not Mine:bowdown: Not till His glorious arrival. Mums the word on public revelation.
Sort of, then I threw Genesis 16 in as a opposite example.
Its clear.
Lets dive right in.
I informed you that this opinion may be flawed!I think that Christianity may be in for a big shock, look at History how many Prophets were accepted while they lived on this Earth, including Jesus!
Is it clear? Do you really want to dive in? I found this on the net, once again a good view of Fruits to which Baha’u’llah would fulfill
Fruits of the Holy Spirit : Nine Virtues of CHRIST
FRUITS OF THR HOLY SPIRIT : NINE GREAT VIRTUES OF CHRIST
But the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. " Galatians 5: 22-23
If a person is filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit then all the virtues in Galatians 5 :22-23 will be clearly manifested in that person’s life. The nine virtues in this passage are actually the nine great virtues of Christ. As we are controlled by the Holy Spirit , God imparts these virtues to us.
. LOVE
The Holy Spirit imparts to us the virtue of LOVE. I Corinthians 13 describes true Christlike love. Love radiates from a spirit filled person. A church which is truly spirit filled overflows with love. A distinguishing mark of a true disciple of Christ is love. As it is written in John 13:35 :“All men will know that you are m disciples, if you love one another.” The New Testament church is truly a spirit-filled church which overflows with love as it is shown in Acts 4:32-34. Love flows out spontaneously from a spirit-filled person, both love for God and love for men. It is Christ’s love for both God and men the one that led him to Calvary, love for God’s glory and perfect will and love for man’s eternal soul. God’s love is the ultimate reason for the incarnation and crucifixion of the Son of God.
JOY
A spirit-filled person has joy on his heart. Joy and pleasure are two different things. A person maybe suffering from a chain of misfortune but still have joy in his heart. Like the Apostle Paul, though suffered greatly , endured so much tribulation for the sake of the Gospel, never lost his joy as a christian. In contrary ,a person maybe full of earthly pleasures,but still does not have real joy in his heart. Like the rich people who are living apart from the ways of God, they may have lots of pleasures in this world because of their material possessions, but you will still hear some of them who despite of affluence are not still happy. It is because the joy of the Lord is not present in their lives.
PEACE
Another wonderful virtue imparted to us b the Holy Spirit is PEACE, which is actually the peace of Jesus Christ as it is written in John 14:27 ; " Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you, I do not give to you as the world gives." Despite the uncertainties of the future, despite the various problems attacking our economy, despite the present upheavals in our society, a spirit-filled Christian could still remain relaxed, calm, serene. Because the peace of Jesus Christ is in his heart. One perfect example in the life of Christ demonstrating his peace was during the coming of a battalion of soldiers to arrest him in the garden of Gethsemane. A large group of soldiers armed with swords and clubs came to arrest him that night of his betrayal. Jesus yielded himself freely to them. That is the perfect peace of Jesus Christ.
LONG SUFFERING
Long suffering is synonymous to patient and enduring. Long suffering is one of the virtues possessed by God so by Christ also. God was long suffering to Israel , as Jesus Christ was long suffering to his disciples. The disciples during their early life with Jesus were still carnal. Jesus has been very long suffering in dealing with them. As Christians, long suffering must be one of our virtues. We must be long suffering with the weaknesses of out brothers and sisters in the faith. We must be long suffering with the people we are leading to Christ.
KINDNESS
Kindness is synonymous to compassion, generosity, goodness of heart, goodness in deeds or actions. The virtue is very much present in the person of the Father and so with the person of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ has shown great kindness to a lot of people surrounding him during his sojourn here on earth. He has shown kindness by healing their infirmities, their disabilities and physical defects, by feeding them and by teaching them the ways of God. As we become controlled by the Holy Spirit, true kindness radiates from us . We become more considerate to people,we become compassionate to the needy, to the lost. That is why many are driven to missions because this fruit of the Holy Spirit is greatly imparted to them.
GOODNESS
According to Jesus, only one possess this virtue, and that is God as he counsel the rich young ruler. How does goodness differ from kindness? The word is synonymous to suitable or worthy. The term is also used for the servant who invested well his resources. He is called good and faithful servant. It also indicates that something is functioning well. If we said that this watch is no good anymore, it won’t keep track of the right time any longer. Jesus said that a good tree produces goof fruit, that is the tree functions properly. Something is good when it works. Jesus constantly produced and He never failed. His teachings made a lasting and profound impressions. Goodness is one of the virtues impart to us by the Holy Spirit. We could only function well as Christian if we allow the Holy Spirit to control us. We can become the good trees that produce good fruits as the Holy Spirit controls us.
Continued
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tonyfish58
Guest
continued
FAITHFULNESS
God was faithful in fulfilling his promise to Abraham. He is ever faithful to Israel. Jesus was faithful in his love for his disciples. Jesus is faithful to his promises. Jesus showed his faithfulness to the scripture and to the will of the Father until his death on the cross.He is faithful as High Priest. Jesus calls Himself the Faithful Witness. He is the standard of faithfulness by which we measure ourselves. God is ever faithful to us at all times though sometimes we fail. As we are filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit, the virtue is reflected upon us. We also become faithful to him. We become faithful to our commitment to others. Faithfulness in not inherent in man, it is only a God-given virtue.
GENTLENESS
Gentleness is synonymous to meekness. Jesus claimed meekness for himself and significantly coupled it with being “lowly in heart.” His meekness is worthy of our imitation. Meekness of a Christian is displayed by accepting God’s dealings with us as good without any resistance. This is a display of lowliness before God and humility before men.
SELF-CONTROL
Self-control is a discipline, but it cannot be imposed from an outside source. Self-control cannot be achieved by training rather self-control is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. The spiritual Christian has this quality, not as a result of will power or effort but as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit in his lives. Jesus exercised much self-control during his earthly life. A spirit-controlled Christian has self-control in all aspects of his/her life. He has self-control in his thoughts, words, deeds, emotions. he knows well how to handle his emotions and thoughts. He is an emotionally mature person
Regards Tony
FAITHFULNESS
God was faithful in fulfilling his promise to Abraham. He is ever faithful to Israel. Jesus was faithful in his love for his disciples. Jesus is faithful to his promises. Jesus showed his faithfulness to the scripture and to the will of the Father until his death on the cross.He is faithful as High Priest. Jesus calls Himself the Faithful Witness. He is the standard of faithfulness by which we measure ourselves. God is ever faithful to us at all times though sometimes we fail. As we are filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit, the virtue is reflected upon us. We also become faithful to him. We become faithful to our commitment to others. Faithfulness in not inherent in man, it is only a God-given virtue.
GENTLENESS
Gentleness is synonymous to meekness. Jesus claimed meekness for himself and significantly coupled it with being “lowly in heart.” His meekness is worthy of our imitation. Meekness of a Christian is displayed by accepting God’s dealings with us as good without any resistance. This is a display of lowliness before God and humility before men.
SELF-CONTROL
Self-control is a discipline, but it cannot be imposed from an outside source. Self-control cannot be achieved by training rather self-control is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. The spiritual Christian has this quality, not as a result of will power or effort but as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit in his lives. Jesus exercised much self-control during his earthly life. A spirit-controlled Christian has self-control in all aspects of his/her life. He has self-control in his thoughts, words, deeds, emotions. he knows well how to handle his emotions and thoughts. He is an emotionally mature person
Regards Tony
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
This is the only one I can comment on, not being a great expert and all.
What good is faithfulness if it is Faith in something wrong?
Jesus showed faith in the Scriptures, but I don’t see that in
the Baha’i Faith (Isaac vs Ishmael being but one example).
What is “faithfulness to … the will of the Father” when you
make the Father into a human being? That’s how it is, isn’t
it, Baha’u’llah is the incarnation of God the Father?
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Servant19
Guest
Yes yes, I agree.
Accusing Abraham of fornication is blasphemy
In today’s world, with the spiritual knowledge and insights we have gained from God, you may have a point, but for 4000 years ago, that’s disrespectful towards the Father of monotheism…and to make it a point to exclude yourself as superior to other religions is missing the spirit behind Gods revelations
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Of which we don’t know.
Prophets have nothing to do in that they are creatures, Christ is God. Virtues used is a loose term with wide borders which when applied to others, may have nothing to do with Christ’s faithful. For example Mohammed isn’t a prophet in Christianity and his fruits as below are void? Yes or no?
Many could fulfill aspects of the list or possibly all on the list it may indicate a disciple of Christ or not. Its not an all inclusive list. How’s Mohammed fit?
Indications of which there can be no flaw? Then what of Mohammed?
Your dealing with terms such as a “person may be” “if we allow the Holy Spirit” “as we become controlled” “disciples during their early life with Jesus were still carnal” and so forth.
Not sure what the list does for you, what was Judas lacking which no-one saw coming? Why isn’t Mohammed held by you to the same level you propose indicates the god virtues you follow. Its a double standard?
Can’t help but notice…Mohammed! I don’t see your point. Do these same virtues apply to Mohammed and then lets cross reference how he’s doing with the list thus false prophet. Or does he fit a different paradigm? You guys have glaring double standards SERIOUSLY!!!
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GaryTaylor
Guest
You guys spin your wheels way to much attempting to teach Christians about the Bible which you “assume” you are right about and they are wrong. Where is that on the virtue list? Did you ever check the Christian heresy history timeline. You guys would be on it. Denial of Jesus Christ as the Living God is heresy, anti-Christian.
Christ is GOD, God from God, Light from Light, True God of True God. If the prophet doesn’t arrive at that conclusion he could have every virtue on your list and still be wrong. Or he could be like Mohammed and still be wrong.
Why should anyone believe what you suggest the Bible states? Do you have a Bible commentary on-line? What credentials do you hold which suggest anyone should listen to you on matters concerning the Bible?
Ever think as astonishing as this is …YOU MAY BE WRONG? Not the Church, Jesus Christ etc.
What about Genesis? You Bible understanding, of Ismael coincides with what Christian OT Biblical scholar? What OT scholar? Perhaps we should keep it simple for now and go with that?
Christ is GOD, God from God, Light from Light, True God of True God. If the prophet doesn’t arrive at that conclusion he could have every virtue on your list and still be wrong. Or he could be like Mohammed and still be wrong.
Why should anyone believe what you suggest the Bible states? Do you have a Bible commentary on-line? What credentials do you hold which suggest anyone should listen to you on matters concerning the Bible?
Ever think as astonishing as this is …YOU MAY BE WRONG? Not the Church, Jesus Christ etc.
What about Genesis? You Bible understanding, of Ismael coincides with what Christian OT Biblical scholar? What OT scholar? Perhaps we should keep it simple for now and go with that?
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Servant19
Guest
I generally like to look at the Bab first and then make conclusions on Baha’u’llah based off that.
Looking at the merits of the Bab as a Person on His own without comparing Him to anyone else or anything else, can you give me one reason why the Bab would be wrong?
Ok so He didn’t physically raise Himself from the dead, although His martyrdom was more than sufficient proof of His Divinity, but what He did do is convince tens of thousands of Peters and thousands of Johns, James’s and Thomas’s. What proof do you require to acknowledge His Divinity?
That’s the question you should ask…so let’s look at the Bab
.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.
Pulpit Commentary
Are all apostles? etc. It is God’s providence which “has appointed divers orders in his Church,” and has “ordained and constituted the services of angels and of men in a wonderful order.”
So the Apostles are first among those in the Church as St Paul states “placed in the Church FIRST of all Apostles” Such as Paul whom He (Jesus Christ) quickened by the Holy Spirit.
But notice he states “placed in THE CHURCH”. so we know these Apostles/Saints are in the Church, we don’t know for “certain” of all their virtues or those outside the Church or that saints may exist outside in ignorance of the Good News. Al;so on the above list as we can’t dismiss Judas and Mohammed or no?
These souls have another qualifier, they are in the Church, the Church is the mystical body of Christ, it is salvation itself in the real presence of Jesus Christ and quickens souls through the sacraments, through the Holy Spirit.
So then while we can’t dismiss the reality saints can exist outside the Church, we would have to admit the preponderance of evidence suggests that Saints of Christ’s Church should first be looked for in Christ’s Church?
Now Christs Church the one I was quoting above about public Revelation, this exists and was instituted by Jesus Christ and established through the Apostles and with Apostolic Succession.
Just like you guys following Bab built a Church and have followers in it. You have apostolic succession so to speak. Point being what you have, already existed in Christs Church and since a decade of the Cross and Biblically with epistles being then penned at that point, then these same people canonized the Bible, so souls could further be saved through Christs redemption and at the mass in the Church. Still the same Church apostles successors and so forth through the sequence of events to today.
St Paul tells the Christians at Corinth and Rome that they “are sanctified in Jesus Christ, called to be saints” “In HIs Church being Corinth and Rome”
Just Saying, there’s a noticeable issue with Apostles/Saints/Prophets and false prophets then also as cross referenced by above as in “Church”
And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.
Pulpit Commentary
Are all apostles? etc. It is God’s providence which “has appointed divers orders in his Church,” and has “ordained and constituted the services of angels and of men in a wonderful order.”
So the Apostles are first among those in the Church as St Paul states “placed in the Church FIRST of all Apostles” Such as Paul whom He (Jesus Christ) quickened by the Holy Spirit.
But notice he states “placed in THE CHURCH”. so we know these Apostles/Saints are in the Church, we don’t know for “certain” of all their virtues or those outside the Church or that saints may exist outside in ignorance of the Good News. Al;so on the above list as we can’t dismiss Judas and Mohammed or no?
These souls have another qualifier, they are in the Church, the Church is the mystical body of Christ, it is salvation itself in the real presence of Jesus Christ and quickens souls through the sacraments, through the Holy Spirit.
So then while we can’t dismiss the reality saints can exist outside the Church, we would have to admit the preponderance of evidence suggests that Saints of Christ’s Church should first be looked for in Christ’s Church?
Now Christs Church the one I was quoting above about public Revelation, this exists and was instituted by Jesus Christ and established through the Apostles and with Apostolic Succession.
Just like you guys following Bab built a Church and have followers in it. You have apostolic succession so to speak. Point being what you have, already existed in Christs Church and since a decade of the Cross and Biblically with epistles being then penned at that point, then these same people canonized the Bible, so souls could further be saved through Christs redemption and at the mass in the Church. Still the same Church apostles successors and so forth through the sequence of events to today.
St Paul tells the Christians at Corinth and Rome that they “are sanctified in Jesus Christ, called to be saints” “In HIs Church being Corinth and Rome”
Just Saying, there’s a noticeable issue with Apostles/Saints/Prophets and false prophets then also as cross referenced by above as in “Church”
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