False Prophets the most used comeback!

[Judas_Thaddeus]

What about the Muslim Nation! It was great! if you study History you will find that Christianity learned much from the Muslim Teachings, a heck of a lot!

Regards Tony

But how do we know that Muslim teaching is correct?
We test it with the Bible.

 

[tonyfish58]

Because Jesus will come again ‘just as you saw Him go’, as the Bible says. As unmistakeably Himself.

Not in the form of any other person, and especially not as someone no Christian can possibly accept, having teachings so radically different from those of Christ.

Then the rejection is of Mans understanding not actually of Jesus and God!

As there are other ways to understand the ascension and resurrection, it could be that all one has to do is look at other ideas!

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

But how do we know that Muslim teaching is correct?
We test it with the Bible.

How do you know the Bible is correct?

.

 

[tonyfish58]

So why should I believe Bahá’u’lláh over Mohammed? That wasn’t expounded to me, how about you? So why is what was expounded to you of more or less value than I or anyone else? You may be just flat out wrong. :

Servant gave you a reply, but as Servant said we do not believe over another Prophet, we believe with another Prophet. They are all One in the Holy Spirit, the Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and the End!

It is Gods way through Progressive Revelation, that is why it is said I have more to say unto you! This is an entire subject to discuss on it own, so we will leave it at this!

Regards Tony

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

How do you know the Bible is correct?

Well as I said before, consistency is a must in Truth.
The Bible, written by may men over a long period of
time, are very consistent with one another. Are you
trying to say that the Bible is inaccurate?

MORMON TACTIC!

How do we know what’s true if we don’t have the means to test all things?

 

[tonyfish58]

Who says it is about what He looks like? He obviously looked different as a baby than as a grown man. But He was still the same person, and still is and always will be. His form was - is - that of Jesus of Nazareth. Son of Mary of Nazareth. And that is how He will return. Not the form of Baha’ullah of definitely-not-Nazareth son of definitely-not-Mary-of-Nazareth!

Jesus does not have multiple mothers and multiple places of birth. He did not believe in reincarnation. His second coming will not be as an entirely different person born of different mother in a different part of the world.

This is all explainable, where would you like to start?

Would this be a good place?

Matthew 24:36 - “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”. NIV New International Version

 

[tonyfish58]

But how do we know that Muslim teaching is correct?
We test it with the Bible.

This could be an error.

If we use that train of thought then we must think this - Does the New Testament of the Bible stand by itself or does it need the Old Testament to Prove it correct?

If the New Testament states something that the Old Testament does not, is it correct?

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

If Paul had stopped there, saying nothing more, you may
have a point, but listen to more than one verse at a timeo not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For amen I say unto
you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled. He therefore that shall break
one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that
shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more
than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
– (Matthew 5:17-20)
And Saint James says,And whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become guilty of all.
– (James 2:10)
None of us can EVER please God enough to have eternal life.
We are all worthy of Hell, of pain and torment, of howling and
gnashing our teeth, for all eternity, being sinful as we are, but
Christ apparently has a solution (recall Matthew 5:17): There is now therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who
walk not according to the flesh. For the Law of the spirit of life, in Christ Jesus,
hath delivered me from the Law of sin and of death.
– (Romans 8:1-2)

For the end of the Law is Christ, unto justice to every one that believeth.
– (Romans 10:4)
You have to read Paul’s letters VERY CAREFULLY, and better under
the guidance of the Roman Catholic Church, for Saint Peter gives us
a great warning:Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and
unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
– (2 Peter 3:15-16)

All religions proclaim that they fulfill, rather than abrogate, the previous Teachings. It is for Jews to listen to their hearts the Voice of Christ, and it is for Christians and Muslims to listen to their hearts the Voice of Baha’u’llah:

Let no one, however, mistake my purpose. The Revelation, of which Bahá’u’lláh is the source and center, abrogates none of the religions that have preceded it, nor does it attempt, in the slightest degree, to distort their features or to belittle their value. It disclaims any intention of dwarfing any of the Prophets of the past, or of whittling down the eternal verity of their teachings. It can, in no wise, conflict with the spirit that animates their claims, nor does it seek to undermine the basis of any man’s allegiance to their cause. Its declared, its primary purpose is to enable every adherent of these Faiths to obtain a fuller understanding of the religion with which he stands identified, and to acquire a clearer apprehension of its purpose. It is neither eclectic in the presentation of its truths, nor arrogant in the affirmation of its claims. Its teachings revolve around the fundamental principle that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is progressive, not final. Unequivocally and without the least reservation it proclaims all established religions to be divine in origin, identical in their aims, complementary in their functions, continuous in their purpose, indispensable in their value to mankind.

“All the Prophets of God,” asserts Bahá’u’lláh in the Kitáb-i-Íqán, “abide in the same tabernacle, soar in the same heaven, are seated upon the same throne, utter the same speech, and proclaim the same Faith.” From the “beginning that hath no beginning,” these Exponents of the Unity of God and Channels of His incessant utterance have shed the light of the invisible Beauty upon mankind, and will continue, to the “end that hath no end,” to vouchsafe fresh revelations of His might and additional experiences of His inconceivable glory. To contend that any particular religion is final, that “all Revelation is ended, that the portals of Divine mercy are closed, that from the daysprings of eternal holiness no sun shall rise again, that the ocean of everlasting bounty is forever stilled, and that out of the Tabernacle of ancient glory the Messengers of God have ceased to be made manifest” would indeed be nothing less than sheer blasphemy.

“They differ,” explains Bahá’u’lláh in that same epistle, “only in the intensity of their revelation and the comparative potency of their light.” And this, not by reason of any inherent incapacity of any one of them to reveal in a fuller measure the glory of the Message with which He has been entrusted, but rather because of the immaturity and unpreparedness of the age He lived in to apprehend and absorb the full potentialities latent in that Faith.

 

[tonyfish58]

Well as I said before, consistency is a must in Truth.
The Bible, written by may men over a long period of
time, are very consistent with one another. Are you
trying to say that the Bible is inaccurate?

MORMON TACTIC!

How do we know what’s true if we don’t have the means to test all things?

Servant did not say that, I have posted a question you need to answer in relation to your comment that the Koran is Tested by the Bible.

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

(cont. from above post)

“Know of a certainty,” explains Bahá’u’lláh, “that in every Dispensation the light of Divine Revelation has been vouchsafed to men in direct proportion to their spiritual capacity. Consider the sun. How feeble its rays the moment it appears above the horizon. How gradually its warmth and potency increase as it approaches its zenith, enabling meanwhile all created things to adapt themselves to the growing intensity of its light. How steadily it declines until it reaches its setting point. Were it, all of a sudden, to manifest the energies latent within it, it would, no doubt, cause injury to all created things…. In like manner, if the Sun of Truth were suddenly to reveal, at the earliest stages of its manifestation, the full measure of the potencies which the providence of the Almighty has bestowed upon it, the earth of human understanding would waste away and be consumed; for men’s hearts would neither sustain the intensity of its revelation, nor be able to mirror forth the radiance of its light. Dismayed and overpowered, they would cease to exist.”

It is for this reason, and this reason only, that those who have recognized the Light of God in this age, claim no finality for the Revelation with which they stand identified, nor arrogate to the Faith they have embraced powers and attributes intrinsically superior to, or essentially different from, those which have characterized any of the religious systems that preceded it.

Does not Bahá’u’lláh Himself allude to the progressiveness of Divine Revelation and to the limitations which an inscrutable Wisdom has chosen to impose upon Him? What else can this passage of the Hidden Words imply, if not that He Who revealed it disclaimed finality for the Revelation entrusted to Him by the Almighty? “O Son of Justice! In the night-season the beauty of the immortal Being hath repaired from the emerald height of fidelity unto the Sadratu’l-Muntahá, and wept with such a weeping that the concourse on high and the dwellers of the realms above wailed at His lamenting. Whereupon there was asked, Why the wailing and weeping? He made reply: As bidden I waited expectant upon the hill of faithfulness, yet inhaled not from them that dwell on earth the fragrance of fidelity. Then summoned to return I beheld, and lo! certain doves of holiness were sore tried within the claws of the dogs of earth. Thereupon the Maid of Heaven hastened forth, unveiled, and resplendent, from Her mystic mansion, and asked of their names, and all were told but one. And when urged, the first Letter thereof was uttered, whereupon the dwellers of the celestial chambers rushed forth out of their habitation of glory. And whilst the second letter was pronounced they fell down, one and all, upon the dust. At that moment a Voice was heard from the inmost shrine: ‘Thus far and no farther.’ Verily we bear witness to that which they have done and now are doing.”

“The Revelation of which I am the bearer,” Bahá’u’lláh explicitly declares, “is adapted to humanity’s spiritual receptiveness and capacity; otherwise, the Light that shines within me can neither wax nor wane. Whatever I manifest is nothing more or less than the measure of the Divine glory which God has bidden me reveal.”

If the Light that is now streaming forth upon an increasingly responsive humanity with a radiance that bids fair to eclipse the splendor of such triumphs as the forces of religion have achieved in days past; if the signs and tokens which proclaimed its advent have been, in many respects, unique in the annals of past Revelations; if its votaries have evinced traits and qualities unexampled in the spiritual history of mankind; these should be attributed not to a superior merit which the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh, as a Revelation isolated and alien from any previous Dispensation, might possess, but rather should be viewed and explained as the inevitable outcome of the forces that have made of this present age an age infinitely more advanced, more receptive, and more insistent to receive an ampler measure of Divine Guidance than has hitherto been vouchsafed to mankind.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/WOB/wob-30.html

 

[tonyfish58]

What does that have to do with the fruits of Baha’u’llah, Koresh and Mohammed? You said by their fruits we would know them?

I thought we were comparing fruits and were determining what “exactly” those fruits are. I see a problem in the fruit dept.

What do you think convinced Mohammed he was the last prophet? What’s wrong with his fruits?

Gary - Sorry did not get back to you great question

Could we agree this may be a starting point? I pulled this from the net!

Fruit of the Spirit - The Nine Biblical Attributes
The fruit of the Spirit is a physical manifestation of a Christian’s transformed life. In order to mature as believers, we should study and understand the attributes of the ninefold fruit:

Love - “And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him” (1 John 4:16). Through Jesus Christ, our greatest goal is to do all things in love. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails” (1 Corinthians 13:4-8).

Joy - “The joy of the Lord is your strength” (Nehemiah 8:10). “Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God” (Hebrews 12:2).

Peace - “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit” (Romans 15:13).

Longsuffering (patience) – We are “strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness” (Colossians 1:11). “With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love” (Ephesians 4:2).

Gentleness (kindness) – We should live “in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left” (2 Corinthians 6:6-7).

Goodness - “Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power” (2 Thessalonians 1:11). “For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth” (Ephesians 5:9).

Faith (faithfulness) - “O Lord, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth” (Isaiah 25:1). “I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith” (Ephesians 3:16-17).

Meekness - “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted” (Galatians 6:1). “With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love” (Ephesians 4:2).

Temperance (self-control) - “But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love” (2 Peter 1:5-7).



Regards Tony

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

This could be an error.

If we use that train of thought then we must think this - Does the New Testament of the Bible stand by itself or does it need the Old Testament to Prove it correct?

The New Testament does need the Old to prove it correct, which it does.

If the New Testament states something that the Old Testament does not, is it correct?

Can you be more specific? Do you speak of contradictory statements
or the New Testament saying something on which the Old is silent?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Servant did not say that, I have posted a question you need to answer in relation to your comment that the Koran is Tested by the Bible.

Regards Tony

Can you restate the question, I can’t seem to find it.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

All religions proclaim that they fulfill, rather than abrogate, the previous Teachings. It is for Jews to listen to their hearts the Voice of Christ, and it is for Christians and Muslims to listen to their hearts the Voice of Baha’u’llah:

Except Baha’u’llah and the Baha’i Faith contradicts the Bible.

 

[josie_L]

What about the Muslim Nation! It was great! if you study History you will find that Christianity learned much from the Muslim Teachings, a heck of a lot!

Regards Tony

Actually, there was a period in time in which Muslims were very involved in philosophy, math, sciences . . .etc. (do recollect that there were also Muslims who burnt down libraries), and imparted this knowledge via trade routes, exchange of letters, interactions . . .etc. The Christian West had lost touch with many of the Greek books/philosophers because of wars and raids that destroyed their libraries (monks would work diligently trying to transcribe as many books as they could). That the West embraced these books/philosophies reintroduced to them by the Muslims is a testament to the thirst of knowledge with which the Christians at that time possessed.

Averroes was a defender of Aristotelian philosophy against Ash’ari theologians led by Al-Ghazali. Averroes’ philosophy was considered controversial in Muslim circles.[7] Averroes had a greater impact on Western European circles and he has been described as the “founding father of secular thought in Western Europe”.[7][8][9] The detailed commentaries on Aristotle earned Averroes the title “The Commentator” in Europe. Latin translations of Averroes’ work led the way to the popularization of Aristotle and were responsible for the development of scholasticism in medieval Europe.[10]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes

p.s. It’s not for nothing that the Catholic Church is credited to giving birth to the University (as we see it structured today), i.e., there was a deep love of learning.

 

[tonyfish58]

This may be worth considering

2 Peter 2:1-2

False Teachers and Their Destruction

2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. (New International Version (NIV))

The fruits may be

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (New International Version (NIV))

Regards Tony

 

[GaryTaylor]

Could we agree this may be a starting point? I pulled this from the net!

“Ye shall know them by their fruits,… By “fruits” are meant, not so much their external works in life and conversation; for a false prophet may so behave, as not to be discovered thereby. So the Pharisees were outwardly righteous before men; and false teachers among Christians may have the form of godliness, and keep it up, though they are strangers to, and even deny the power of it: but their doctrines are here meant, and the effects of them. When doctrines are contrary to the perfections of God, repugnant to the Scriptures of truth, tend to depreciate the person and offices, blood, righteousness, and sacrifice of Christ, to lessen the glory of God’s grace, to exalt the creature, and to fill men’s minds with notions of the purity, self-sufficiency, and ability of human nature; when they are calculated to feed the pride and vanity of men, to serve their own interests”

Gills commentary on Matthew

The issue then becomes public revelation to which none other is accepted save that of Jesus Christ. What appears is perpetual public revelation similar to the Mormons. Should one believe it or not isn’t of question. The fact is (public) it doesn’t change and expose’s the issue. On a deeper level of prophecy in Catholicism the issue compounds.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them that are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which ye learned: and turn away from them.

And of course …biblehub.com/sermons/auth/finlayson/antichrist.htm

Anti-Christian

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

This may be worth considering

2 Peter 2:1-2

False Teachers and Their Destruction

2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. (New International Version (NIV))

The fruits may be

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (New International Version (NIV))

Regards Tony

Yes, a warning against men like Baha’u’llah. Not all false prophets are outwardly
depraved people, but some will come as wolves in sheep’s clothing. Many could
appear as having fruits of the Spirit, but wtill reveal false teachings.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Right, I think false prophets, and then above with their fruits, known or unknown become viewed in the scope and realm of the Christian message. So too its more complex with the apostolic church’s and their doctrine which many date to a decade of Christ. The end times becomes cautionary in prophecy since there is no deviation in the Kingdom to Come. The deeper understanding then becomes the teachings and sacraments of the Church.

No one knows when Christ is returning, but He’s coming. I’ll take a wild guess and say that those who follow the teachings and sacraments of the Church, are prepared and attempting to be prepared for that day, be it unknown. Also, and in other words there may be no flood warning and time for repentance at some point. So I agree with the Church on this point as a practicing Catholic, that is, I should be prepared for that unknown moment. I tend to view the Church itself as a sacrament, a refuge for sinners in the land of the shadow, a Light, it indicates salvation is of Jesus Christ.

You guys are most polite though, evil is very prevalent in the world, I don’t think it needs any more attention than it claims for itself, but I do believe we are in the middle of this journey along with it and Jesus Christ, thus He, His Church and Saints which prevails. So your right we are in the middle of a love story and together. Its a pleasure to meet.

 

[Servant19]

Except Baha’u’llah and the Baha’i Faith contradicts the Bible.

If you are talking about historical events here, why would the Bible be an “absolute” source of reliable history?

ALL scholars are divided on even which letters were actually written by Paul and which were possibly not. Either way, there are a LOT of things which many Christian New Testament scholars are divided on their authenticity, from each of the 24 books.

You are stuck on Ishmael and Isaac?

…move on…

There are no contradictions…

.