False Prophets the most used comeback!

[tonyfish58]

So you think the new testament is mistaken in saying Jesus Christ alone is the cause of salvation? I take you believe that, because you do not want to answer and you grouped the prophets in with Jesus as if they were the equal cause of salvation. But since you don’t want to answer I can tell what your answer is.

I would suggest you have no way of knowing what I would answer Link to following quotes - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-13.html

Baha’u’llah has some writings to consider as follows;

“Say, God is my witness! The Promised One Himself hath come down from heaven, seated upon the crimson cloud with the hosts of revelation on His right, and the angels of inspiration on His left, and the Decree hath been fulfilled at the behest of God, the Omnipotent, the Almighty. Thereupon the footsteps of everyone have slipped except such as God hath protected through His tender mercy and numbered with those who have recognized Him through His Own Self and detached themselves from all that pertaineth to the world.
Hearken thou unto the Words of thy Lord and purify thy heart from every illusion so that the effulgent light of the remembrance of thy Lord may shed its radiance upon it, and it may attain the station of certitude”.

“Thou hast asked regarding the subject of the return…
As to the Return, as God hath purposed in His sacred and exalted Tablets wherein He hath made this theme known unto His servants; by this is meant the return of all created things in the Day of Resurrection, and this is indeed the essence of the Return as thou hast witnessed in God’s own days and thou art of them that testify to this truth.
Verily God is fully capable of causing all names to appear in one name, and all souls in one soul. Surely powerful and mighty is He. And this Return is realized at His behest in whatever form He willeth. Indeed He is the One Who doeth and ordaineth all things. Moreover, thou shouldst not perceive the fulfilment of the Return and the Resurrection save in the Word of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Knowing. For instance, were He to take a handful of earth and declare it to be the One Whom ye have been following in the past, it would undoubtedly be just and true, even as His real Person, and to none is given the right to question His authority. He doeth what He willeth and ordaineth whatsoever He pleaseth. Moreover, in this station take thou heed not to turn thy gaze unto limitations and allusions, but rather unto that whereby the Revelation itself hath been fulfilled and be of them that are discerning. Thus do We explain for thee in a lucid and explicit language that thou mayest comprehend that which thou didst seek from thine ancient Lord”.

God Bless Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Except there is no connection between Hinduism and Judaism and (so logic follows)
neither Christianity. And again, pulling from a previous thread, Hinduism / Buddhism
have a worldview ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The
two sets of worldviews cannot be reconciled to each other.

Why would there need to be a connection when the world was itself so disconnected and different peoples and different cultures had developed diverse norms and understandings over their spiritual evolution?

It is coincidental that with Jesus’ coming a concept of a single world message may have even been realised, and even with Muhammad, one of His principal concepts He revealed was that of nation building. No one really has provided a message that is intended to connect all Revelations until the Bahai Dispensation.

Connections can be easily found between Judaism and Hinduism, and Zoroastrianism, one only needs to develop an understanding of the deeper spiritual meanings enshrined in all their teachings.

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[Servant19]

So the answer would be: no, the Bahai faith has no women prophets.

That seems pretty cut and dried.

Just wondering. It’s a relatively modern religion. One that places high emphasis on equality (a good thing, to be sure!). One would think that in these modern times you would have at least 1 or 2 women prophets.

What is your definition of a prophet here PR?

Does Christianity have female prophets?

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[PRmerger]

What is your definition of a prophet here PR?

I am deferring to the Bahai definition, since I am asking about what you all believe.

Does Christianity have female prophets?

Nope.

 

[Servant19]

I am deferring to the Bahai definition, since I am asking about what you all believe.

Nope.

The Bahai Faith does not claim that there will be any prophets of any nature for at least a thousand years after Baha’u’llah’s coming.

Having or not having female prophets has no bearing on the principle of gender equality, of which I believe the Bahai Faith is at the forefront of its global implementation.

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[PRmerger]

Having or not having female prophets has no bearing on the principle of gender equality, of which I believe the Bahai Faith is at the forefront of its global implementation.

I disagree. If your modern religion doesn’t have female prophets, it doesn’t appear to be walking the walk of gender equality.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Why would there need to be a connection when the world was itself so disconnected and different peoples and different cultures had developed diverse norms and understandings over their spiritual evolution?

God is One, so the Truth must be One, but it cannot be represented by two entirely
different worldviews. One says All is Eternal, the other says Only Some is Eternal.
Under the All is Eternal view, there is Spiritual Monism and Material Monism, and
Hinduism/Buddhism is under the Spiritual Monism of All is Eternal. Only one world-
view is correct, either All is Eternal or Only Some, which is it?

It is coincidental that with Jesus’ coming a concept of a single world message may have even been realised, and even with Muhammad, one of His principal concepts He revealed was that of nation building. No one really has provided a message that is intended to connect all Revelations until the Bahai Dispensation.

Yes, no one decided to connect Correct and Incorrect Revelations until the “Baha’i Time.”

Connections can be easily found between Judaism and Hinduism, and Zoroastrianism, one only needs to develop an understanding of the deeper spiritual meanings enshrined in all their teachings.

In other words, “Don’t quibble over what makes us different, but let’s on–
ly see what we have in common. Who cares really that the Hindus have
thousands upon thousands of deities and Judaism has only one?” :dts:

 

[SteveVH]

There are four points that need to be made about Paul’s approach to them. In some respects, he agrees with the “strong” (remarkably). Paul agrees that their identity is strong and firm, but he disagrees about the basis of that strength. It’s not because their identity is mental, but it’s because GOD has gifted them and God is faithful. So Paul is for freedom as much as possible, because that is what God has called him into.

In other respects he agrees with the “weak”, because identity is not necessarily a matter of internalism, but it is a “corporate” matter, involving your body, and the community’s body. So, their motto was “food for the belly and the belly for food”. Paul said that sex is not like eating peanuts, sex is not just a physical interaction, it is also a spiritual interaction. It has spiritual implications. So he calls them to this HIGHER awareness of a corporate reality.

Secondly, he thinks that BOTH sides are wrong, by seeking to be RIGHT, at the expense of righteousness, and this is where he comes down so strongly on them for going to pagan courts to try to solve their problems.

Paul much prefers ambiguity of life together than a community separated into mutually opposing and “theoretically correct” factions.

Thirdly, he calls them to live according to this pattern of “self-emptying” that is found in the death of Jesus. Paul’s discourse in ch.1 verse 18, where he talks about how Gods power has come through the message of the Cross. Gods foolishness is stronger than human wisdom, Gods weakness is stronger than human strength…
…and the end of that discourse Paul says: “we have the Spirit, not of this world, but that has come from God”. So the way God has worked is the Spirit that is supposed to work in us. And then he says in ch.2 verse 16, “we have the mind of Christ”…“noos Cristu” (in Greek)

The term “noos” in ancient moral philosophy meant what we would today call a “mindset”. We have the disposition, we have the attitudes, we have the way of viewing reality that belongs to Jesus. This is EXTREMELY important for Paul. How Jesus is important for him, IS NOT IN THE INCIDENTALS OF HIS HISTORICAL PAST, but in the form of His consciousness, in the pattern of His existence. The MIND of Christ (for Paul) is exemplified in a life in which one is willing to give up his own wisdom, and to look foolish, so that others can be wiser. One in which one can give up a little of their own strength, so that those who are weak can become stronger.

So fourthly, the pattern by which all members of the community can grow stronger is by seeking to build up the whole community rather than themselves. Paul uses this amazing image of the body of the Messiah in ch.12 verse 12-31, which he sees the community as a living, inter-related organism, which the health and life of each part of the organism depends upon the health and life of the WHOLE organism, you see?

And we see here now a principle he will develop much more in 2 Corinthians, that of reconciliation and reciprocity, which was so counter-cultural back then, and today. The strong don’t become stronger by eliminating the weak, EVERYBODY becomes stronger by making the whole community stronger.

Now, if I may ask you to ponder the contents of this lecture and tell me your thoughts on how it relates to our dialogue in this thread .

That seems like a strange request. Since you wrote it, why don’t you tell us how it relates to the dialogue in this thread? I have no idea. Not only do I disagree with your interpretation of Paul’s view of Jesus but what does this have to do with false prophets?

 

[Servant19]

I disagree. If your modern religion doesn’t have female prophets, it doesn’t appear to be walking the walk of gender equality.

So you’re saying that because Jesus was a man that the entirety of Christianity is based on sexism?

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[PRmerger]

So you’re saying that because Jesus was a man that the entirety of Christianity is based on sexism?

.

I have not said anything at all like that.

What I am saying is that it is curious to me that the Bahai faith, which was started in the modern era, has no female prophets.

 

[Servant19]

Yes, no one decided to connect Correct and Incorrect Revelations until the “Baha’i Time.”

Say you lived in Egypt in 600BC. What revelation would you adhere to?
Say you lived in India in 1000BC. What revelation would you adhere to?

In other words, “Don’t quibble over what makes us different, but let’s on–
ly see what we have in common. Who cares really that the Hindus have
thousands upon thousands of deities and Judaism has only one?” :dts:

It is the nascent vision of a globally united community that Paul was emphasizing to Corinth.

Truth that does not result in tyrannical human suffering and harm is less important than global unity.

Whether God is part of or separate from Creation, for example is less important than to be able to find commonalities that can unite us.

Paul clearly emphasized this in 1 Corinthians.

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[Servant19]

I have not said anything at all like that.

What I am saying is that it is curious to me that the Bahai faith, which was started in the modern era, has no female prophets.

LOL

You’re curiosity is unfounded.

God chooses His Chosen Ones as He willeth.
Does the teaching to love all animals have to come from an animal?

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[PRmerger]

Does the teaching to love all animals have to come from an animal?

That’s a strange teaching. It’s certainly not a Christian one. I don’t love all animals. Ewww. And I am not commanded to love all animals.

But if that’s one of the Bahai teachings, I suppose it would be better coming from an animal.

 

[Servant19]

That’s a strange teaching. It’s certainly not a Christian one. I don’t love all animals. Ewww. And I am not commanded to love all animals.

But if that’s one of the Bahai teachings, I suppose it would be better coming from an animal.

What a bizarre stance to take…

Are you saying that what is taught in the teachings should be a living reality?

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[PRmerger]

Are you saying that what is taught in the teachings should be a living reality?

I don’t know what this means.

I am saying that it is not a Christian teaching that we have to love all animals.

I am under no obligation to love this creature:

http://www.weird-strange-facts.com/images/crab.jpg

In fact, I might want to kill it and eat it.

And as a Christian that would be perfectly permissible.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Say you lived in Egypt in 600BC. What revelation would you adhere to?
Say you lived in India in 1000BC. What revelation would you adhere to?

If I was in Egypt, before the Ptolemaic dynasty, I suppose no revelation, just
the Egyptian religion. If in India, 1000 years about before Christ, I would like-
ly be a Hindu, I suppose, but these questions are irrelevant.

It is the nascent vision of a globally united community that Paul was emphasizing to Corinth.
Truth that does not result in tyrannical human suffering and harm is less important than global unity.
Whether God is part of or separate from Creation, for example is less important than to be able to find commonalities that can unite us.
Paul clearly emphasized this in 1 Corinthians.

I fail to see how this addresses the incapability of the Eastern and Western Worldviews.
Notice also how you speak of a Truth that does not result in tyranny, etc. Jesus said it
himself, that he came not to bring peace , but a sword , because Jesus knew well that
THE Truth would tear this sinful world asunder . We pray for peace upon all who are of
good will, sure, but we should not go and turn to a man promising all that warm, fuzzy
stuff. Peace will not be established until after the end of the world when God defeats
all evil once and for all and casts off the wicked and faithless from the those loyal to
God and his Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[tonyfish58]

Well from the discussion so far, it appears not much has been solved!

The answer may be as simple as this, and is worth consideration

In the end, the Proof of Christ stands upon Himself and His Word.

It can then be concluded that this then becomes the standard and the basis of all future Judgement re the return or another prophet. First The Messenger Himself, then His Word.

Thus Muhammad is proved by Himself and His Word,

The Bab is proved by Himself and His Word, and

Baha’u’llah is proved by Himself and His Word.

To use mans interpretation of any previous Scripture as a Standard of Proof, is shown by history to be completely erroneous.

May God Bless all with Justice and Fair Judgement.

Regards Tony

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Well from the discussion so far, it appears not much has been solved!
The answer may be as simple as this, and is worth consideration
In the end, the Proof of Christ stands upon Himself and His Word.
It can then be concluded that this then becomes the standard and the basis of all future Judgement re the return or another prophet. First The Messenger Himself, then His Word.
Thus Muhammad is proved by Himself and His Word,
The Bab is proved by Himself and His Word, and
Baha’u’llah is proved by Himself and His Word.
To use mans interpretation of any previous Scripture as a Standard of Proof, is shown by history to be completely erroneous.
May God Bless all with Justice and Fair Judgement.
Regards Tony

Muhammad proved nothing.
That Bab proved nothing.
Baha’u’llah proved nothing.

Prophets worked signs and miracles to prove themselves to the Israelites, Jesus fulfilled
what the Prophets before said, performing signs and wonders, the Apostles who went &
preached Jesus Christ, him crucified, AGAIN, performing signs and miracles!

Later ‘prophets’ are not known for anything like that.

And on that last point you made on interpretation and “shown by history to be erroneous”
is SO in it of itself erroneous. Take Jesus for example. MANY Jews expected, as accord-
ing to the Scriptures, that the Messiah would be God himself. Back then, the Jews were
confused about the nature of God, formulating many ideas, like emanations, personifica-
tion of God’s Spirit, even the Personification of God’s Word, Jewish view of God TODAY,
not the same as way back.

It was after Christ ascended into Heaven and after Christianity spread a little bit that the
Jews began to (especially after the Siege of Jerusalem & Fall of the Temple) re-form ev-
erything Jewish in response to the claim that Jesus is Messiah and God of all Creation.

 

[Servant19]

I don’t know what this means.

It means that you are asking why there is no female prophets if we teach gender equality.
My question is are you saying that when a teaching is given it should have a perfect exemplar of that teaching?

I have seen many sexist women.
I have also seen many men, like Abdu’l-Baha, who displayed a life of promotion of women’s status, and showed a perfect example of gender equality.
Baha’is also look up to Bahiyyeh Khanum (Baha’u’llah’s eldest daughter) who was the global head of the Faith for a few years until the Guardianship was established

I am saying that it is not a Christian teaching that we have to love all animals.

I never said it was, you’re going off on a tangent…

I am under no obligation to love this creature:

http://www.weird-strange-facts.com/images/crab.jpg

In fact, I might want to kill it and eat it.

And as a Christian that would be perfectly permissible.

This may be true, but would it be permissible for all Christians to indiscriminately kill poodles, and canary birds?

If not why do you not have poodle and canary prophets?

.

 

[PRmerger]

This may be true, but would it be permissible for all Christians to indiscriminately kill poodles, and canary birds?

“Thou shalt not indiscriminately kill animals” (which is a Christian teaching) is quite different from “Thou shalt love all animals,”

Surely you see that, right?