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eddie_too
Guest
for any bahai,
how did bahaullah interpret the following passage from the Gospel of Matthew Chapter `10?
*Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.*
if bahaullah did not address these verses, has any of his followers or the universal house of justice done addressed them anywhere?
how did bahaullah interpret the following passage from the Gospel of Matthew Chapter `10?
*Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.*
if bahaullah did not address these verses, has any of his followers or the universal house of justice done addressed them anywhere?
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Servant19
Guest
Hi eddie.
Very nice passage of the Bible to explore together
My humble understanding is that The Word of God is just like a sword. Jesus brought with Him the Word which rent asunder the world of being for many people. Some were taken with the Spirit and submitted themselves to their Lord and found “sight” and “life”, some did not and were left behind with the “spiritually blind” and “spiritually dead”…
Jesus brought with Him the sword that separated the “dead” from the “alive”.
Baha’is believe that every Manifestation of God brings with them a sword. This is the Day of Resurrection. The moment the Manifestation of God says “I am” is the moment that the sword is released into the world, the Day of Resurrection begins and the sword is unsheathed:
…as it is with the coming of every Manifestation of God…this is the sword, it separates the “taken” from the “left behind”, and as Baha’u’llah affirms in His Tablet of Ahmad:
Hope this helps dear friend
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eddie_too
Guest
servant,
your post does not add anything to my understanding.
Why?
because the bahai teach that the teachings of bahaullah are destined to create a unified world with all men unified around the teachings of bahaulla.
but, the bahai also say that the teachings of bahaullah are meant to divide. that is what happens with every manifestation the bahai teach.
which is it? will the teachings of bahaullah eliminate divisions among mankind; or, will it divide mankind, setting one man against another?
your post does not add anything to my understanding.
Why?
because the bahai teach that the teachings of bahaullah are destined to create a unified world with all men unified around the teachings of bahaulla.
but, the bahai also say that the teachings of bahaullah are meant to divide. that is what happens with every manifestation the bahai teach.
which is it? will the teachings of bahaullah eliminate divisions among mankind; or, will it divide mankind, setting one man against another?
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Servant19
Guest
AHA!!!
Your thinking is exquisite beyond measure!
“Swords into ploughshares”
Baha’u’llah has ushered in the era of “no more swords”
His teachings are the ONLY source for humanity to finally find a resolution to their differences.
Muslims, Jews and Christians can finally unite, and their collaboration under God can be found in Baha’u’llah’s salvation for mankind collectively…
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eddie_too
Guest
servant,
why do the bahai believe this: “His teachings are the ONLY source for humanity to finally find a resolution to their differences.”
why do the bahai believe this: “His teachings are the ONLY source for humanity to finally find a resolution to their differences.”
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Servant19
Guest
Because in order for Christians to establish global unity, a Muslim would have to deny his Beloved and Hearts Desire. (Muhammad)
In order for Muslims to establish global unity, a Bahai would have to deny his Beloved and Hearts Desire (Baha’u’llah )
This is denying the purity of heart of every single one of these worshippers of God.
Baha’u’llah has come to say let’s unite on a deeper level, a more intimate and spiritual level and we will then see that we are truly one without needing to deny ANY of God Messengers.
A Christian cannot be a Bahai without wholeheartedly embracing the Beloved and Hearts Desire of his Muslim neighbour…not just a superficial “I love you”, a heart-wrenching BURNING of love, because in the world of the Spirit, the world of the Kingdom, there is ONLY unity and only love
That, in a nutshell is why, dear brother.
Where there is love, there should be no denial, but acceptance.
"Do not be content with showing friendship in words alone, let your heart burn with loving-kindness for all who may cross your path" - Baha’u’llah
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tonyfish58
Guest
Eddie - To me Baha’ullah has given us all the requirements for us to achieve this. As Baha’is we believe this is direct guidance from God.
Here is one quote and then a link to but just one writing on peace, there are Thousands more that tells us how to set the foundations of a lasting peace.
“Sixty years ago (Note* Early 1900’s - added by Tony) His Holiness Bahá’u’lláh was in Írán. Seventy years ago His Holiness the Báb appeared there. These two blessed souls devoted their lives to the foundation of international peace and love among mankind. They strove with heart and soul to establish the teachings by which divergent people might be brought together and no strife, rancor or hatred prevail. His Holiness Bahá’u’lláh addressing all humanity, said that Adam the parent of mankind may be likened to the tree of nativity upon which you are the leaves and blossoms. Inasmuch as your origin was one, you must now be united and agreed; you must consort with each other in joy and fragrance. He pronounced prejudice, whether religious, racial, patriotic, political, the destroyer of the body-politic. He said that man must recognize the oneness of humanity, for all in origin belong to the same household and all are servants of the same God. Therefore mankind must continue in the state of fellowship and love, emulating the institutions of God and turning away from satanic promptings, for the divine bestowals bring forth unity and agreement whereas satanic leadings induce hatred and war”.
Link to full talk - reference.bahai.org/en/t/c/BWF/bwf-6.html
God Bless and regards Tony
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daler
Guest
Reflecting upon this idea of the “promptings” of the lower, animal nature, where satanic spiritual influences arise, my thoughts turn towards my visit earlier today at a friend’s house where 5 dogs of various breeds share his home. They are like the mixture of humanity, different colors, sizes, and shapes, competing for attention and food, displaying the very nature by which they are bound. They are captives of this animal nature, while we have an option to overcome it.
We are possessed of spiritual capacity, but it is latent within us. In order for this set of attributes to flower and blossom, we must be exposed to spiritual sunlight. Even as the soil of the hearts may be watered with the utterances of the Word of God, if we turn away from the Source of the Heavenly bestowal, the clouds of mercy which flow from the All-Merciful will never reach our hearts.
Thus, unlike the animals, we choose either to be spiritually enlightened or continue living in darkness. In every age in which a Messenger, or Manifestation of God has appeared, those who followed the promptings of the lower nature argued and fought with the Prophets of God and those who followed them.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
If Muhammad is a false prophet, no matter how much love or emotional attachment you have for him, you should give him up. You would expect a Mormon to give up Joseph smith, someone who taught that God is a physical entity to give him up as well right?A Christian cannot be a Bahai without wholeheartedly embracing the Beloved and Hearts Desire of his Muslim neighbour…not just a superficial “I love you”, a heart-wrenching BURNING of love, because in the world of the Spirit, the world of the Kingdom, there is ONLY unity and only love
That, in a nutshell is why, dear brother.
Where there is love, there should be no denial, but acceptance.
"Do not be content with showing friendship in words alone, let your heart burn with loving-kindness for all who may cross your path" - Baha’u’llah
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daler
Guest
Except that for me, there is irrefutable evidence that Muhammad was indeed a True Prophet. Hence, to deny Him would necessitate the denial of Christ and Baha’u’llah as well, which I cannot do.
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PeaceInChrist
Guest
Yes, nothing says ‘true prophet’ like a warlord that sacks Mecca and declares himself the last prophet of Allah.
I’m sure this ‘fruit’ is compatible with your prophet, somehow, yes? I thought that he was more peaceful, though. Jesus, on the other hand, taught truth, performed miracles, suffered death, and rose. His followers died upholding these professions, and even whilst living gave up everything for them. There was no conquest or power gained (as with Muhammad and his warlord successors, the caliphs and sultans. The successors to Christ were likewise martyrs and saints. Why the difference in fruit?
So we have a man who performed miracles, claimed to be God, and rose from the dead, with followers that gave everything based on their witness to this. Then we have Muhammad and the sultans and caliphs, who gained much along with their religious authority. Then we have your prophet, who is supposed to be a prophet, but did not claim divinity and did not perform miracles, but simply taught. This would normally be called a teacher or philosopher (like Aristotle or Plato).
And I am supposed to believe that these three are all in sync? Somehow I’m not convinced.
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Servant19
Guest
Dear friend,
Just as Moses brought the people of Israel towards the one true God through sometimes bloody means, Muhammad also removed the death pangs of idolatry and brought the peoples of Arabia towards the one true God.
Jesus infused this environment with the “Spirit”
In like manner, Baha’u’llah too, has infused this environment with “Spirit”
Not that Moses and Muhammad did not bring with them the Holy Spirit, they did, but the intensity of the grace was noticeably increased with the coming of Jesus and Baha’u’llah.
Each and every Prophet has a role to play in God’s plans to bring the human race out of the death pangs of ignorance and unrighteousness.
As Lord Krsna Himself declared, long long before Jesus:
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Servant19
Guest
Baha’u’llah absolutely claimed Divinity.
“The Father has come!”
…and He absolutely performed miracles, including raising people from the dead…
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PeaceInChrist
Guest
So we have prophets who are commanded to perform acts of justice by God, and the. Come to Jesus, Who claims divinity, dies, rises, and His eyewitness followers did gruesome deaths with no earthly gain. Then, for some reason, we revert back to Islam, which provides much gain for Muhammad and the caliphs and sultans that follow, and this is somehow good because they convert people (by violence, and often Christians).Dear friend,
Just as Moses brought the people of Israel towards the one true God through sometimes bloody means, Muhammad also removed the death pangs of idolatry and brought the peoples of Arabia towards the one true God.
Jesus infused this environment with the “Spirit”
In like manner, Baha’u’llah too, has infused this environment with “Spirit”
Not that Moses and Muhammad did not bring with them the Holy Spirit, they did, but the intensity of the grace was noticeably increased with the coming of Jesus and Baha’u’llah.
Each and every Prophet has a role to play in God’s plans to bring the human race out of the death pangs of ignorance and unrighteousness.
As Lord Krsna Himself declared, long long before Jesus:
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Do you see why many are not convinced?
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Servant19
Guest
Can you show me historical evidence of what “gains” Muhammad received from this supposed “violence” please?
Just one other thing dear friend…
Do you believe in, and convinced by, the God that ordered this?
Do you believe God ordered this, or is this part of the Bible just a hoax?
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Servant19
Guest
Just one other thing dear friend…
Do you believe in, and convinced by, the God that ordered this?
Do you believe God ordered this, or is this part of the Bible just a hoax?
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PeaceInChrist
Guest
Can you show me historical evidence of what “gains” Muhammad received from this supposed “violence” please?
Just one other thing dear friend…
Do you believe in, and convinced by, the God that ordered this?
Do you believe God ordered this, or is this part of the Bible just a hoax?
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- Does being a military general and conqueror of Mecca not count as a gain??
- If God ordered the destruction of any people, it was because they were unrepentant and held obstinately to opposing God. Scripture does attest to the Jews destroying these people, though hyperbole may have been used in exactly what they did. This was during the Old Covenants when God was still establishing His earthly people as a kingdom. This was also not for conversion (as for Muhammad) but for justice.
If you want more about Muhammad’s military escapades, a Google search will do you well.
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PeaceInChrist
Guest
Also, I’m not sure how you explain the harmony of Christianity and Islam with verses like this in the Quran 5: 51-
O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
But then again, I’m not sure how Bahá’u’lláh didn’t know he was God Incarnate until he was thrown into an underground prison and then received revelations, or how he was the chosen one but didn’t even know the Bab until he was 27. Jesus knew Who He was the whole time, and so did others (see Luke 1 and 2).
Interesting how contradictory these things are. It’s almost like they’re all different religions that claim different absolute truths that are not compatible with one another. Oh, wait…
O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
But then again, I’m not sure how Bahá’u’lláh didn’t know he was God Incarnate until he was thrown into an underground prison and then received revelations, or how he was the chosen one but didn’t even know the Bab until he was 27. Jesus knew Who He was the whole time, and so did others (see Luke 1 and 2).
Interesting how contradictory these things are. It’s almost like they’re all different religions that claim different absolute truths that are not compatible with one another. Oh, wait…
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daler
Guest
Friend,
. On the surface, one could offer a blanket condemnation, as you do, but I have taken the time to study the early days of Islamic history and what I have learned changed my perspective considerably. The practices of the Arab tribes, the savagery and brutality, burying baby girls alive, idolatry, and rampant evil is the backdrop in which Muhammad appeared and for those who believe, received Revelation from God which produced order, changed idolatry into worship of the One true God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.
. Persecution of the early Muslims was severe as they departed from the ways current amongst the people. They did not resist or fight back for 13 years, despite atrocities committed against them which made life unsustainable, at which point Muhammad received a Revelation to “Take up the sword and defend the faithful.” He was no more a warlord than Abraham, Moses, or King David.
. If you read the numerous passages in the Bible from the Old Testament to Revelation you find profound images of the wrath of God being meted out to the infidels and all those who turn away from God, becoming evil and hateful to the Cause of God and Christ. It is far easier to maintain a prejudice by ignoring this fact, but it is prevalent and undeniable.
. As to the Caliphate and their exploits, the Baha’i view is that they were illegitimate,
rebelling against the appointment of Ali as the rightful Successor to the Prophet, much like Peter was appointed by Christ to lead the Church, as maintained by Catholic tradition. The sins of the Caliphs were equal to the atrocities of certain of the Popes and the Inquisitions. Of this, there can be no doubt.
. The Baha’i view is also that what is referred to as “the Beast” in Revelation is the Ummayyads who usurped power and corrupted the purity of Islam, thus wounding it from the start, yet fulfilling a destiny prophesied to occur until the year 1260 AH, which is 1844 AD, the time of the 2nd Advent. Thus, the prophecies of Daniel regarding the 2300 days (years) which ended in 1844, which began in 457 BC, and confirmed by the coming of Christ 70 weeks (490 years) at which time He was “cut off”, or crucified in 33 AD were indeed fulfilled.
. That Daniel’s great vision occurred in Susa, in the province of Elam, is also significant, even as Jeremiah 49:36 prophesied that “The Lord shall set His throne in Elam”, for Elam is today southwestern Iran, where the Bab appeared in 1844, or 1260 AH, in fulfillment of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim time and place prophecies.
. For matters of correction, Baha’u’llah was not God incarnate:
. “Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.”
Gleanings of the Writings of Baha’u’llah #20
PS As to the behavior of the Jews and Christians referred to in the verse you quote from the Quran, in takes an open mind to understand that even as the Jews at the time of Christ were, in a very real sense, not really Jews, as their behavior and rejection of the Messiah demonstrates, the Christians of that land had also fallen far from the high teachings of Jesus, the Christ, and were Christian in name only. I realize it takes an open mind to even consider this, but history is replete with the sins of what happened under the guise of Christianity, from the slaughters in Europe and America, and elsewhere throughout the entire world. From the conquests of Magellan and Columbus, to Cortez, Custer, and Viet Nam, etc, etc, etc… Most of the Nazis were “Christian”, were they not? and how many of the hundreds of Treaties written “In the year of our Lord” were honored and kept as presented to the tribes of Indians of North America as every inch of land from the Atlantic to the Pacific was stolen from them… ?
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