False Prophets the most used comeback!

[PeaceInChrist]

daler is not implying that you are following anything false at all.

Catholicism is indeed beautiful…how do you read it PIC?

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He implied that the Pharisees couldn’t accept Christ, and I am like that with your prophet. That is insulting to me, since I actually do follow Jesus.

The difference between your prophet and Jesus, is that Christ was a Jew, the Jews were expecting a Jewish Messiah, and Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophecies. He also rose from the dead. Kind of a good test to see if He’s for real.

As for your prophet, no Christian was expecting anyone other than Jesus when your prophet came, because Christ was the completion and fulfillment of all. He wasn’t a manifestation of God. He WAS, IS, and ALWAYS WILL BE God. No Jew was expecting a Muslim prophet. And no Muslim was expecting someone to come and say he was equal to Muhammad.

There was literally no expectation, and no purpose, to your prophet. Except to sow further division. Good work on that, by the way.

 

[tonyfish58]

No it’s clearly your God who reveals revelations which contradict with each other. For instance we are told as Christians Jesus is God, we have been told this since the begining. We have been told since the beginning he was resurrected and then comes islam which denies these things. Your God intended Christians to be divided from the Muslims by his contradicting messages. Or another way, Christians have been warned against gnosticism since the beginning, but the bahai actively encourage and believe it. So again, your God presents two different religions.

IgnatianPhilo - You must know by now that IMHO unity is the key

I see not Contradictions that can not be explained with Rational Explanations.

It all depends if one wishes to pursue this course of action.

As I said above Frame of Reference!

God Bless and regards Tony

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Might I just add that the primacy of Peter is FULLY acknowledged in the Baha’i Faith.

I guess you were unaware of this, similar to the accusations against Muhammad?

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When did I talk about the primacy of Peter? Your ability to twist an argument is profound. I said the Catholics and Orthodox know who the valid successors of the apostles are, and that there was no apostasy. Thank you for the straw man, though. Was it fun to strike down?

 

[tonyfish58]

Except to sow further division. Good work on that, by the way.

Just had to make a comment on that statement

What was sown was Unity, read any Tablet of Baha’u’llah and you will find that to be the Truth.

Would any one think the World does not need unity?

What is capable of obtaining this unity, if it was the religions of Old, then it appears it has not worked to date.

But I feel this is not what one wants to hear at this time, so lets agree to disagree on these subjects and agree that Love for Christ will never be quashed!

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Oh come oooonnnnnnn…noooooooooooooo…really???

How many followers of Mirza Muhammad Ali have you bumped into?

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According to you, Christians went apostate to the point that a new manifestation of God had to come. So how many true Christians have you met? I guess as many as true Bahai. Time for the next manifestation. Unless you want to turn back to pure Bahai?

See what I did there?

 

[tonyfish58]

Might I just add that the primacy of Peter is FULLY acknowledged in the Baha’i Faith.

I guess you were unaware of this, similar to the accusations against Muhammad?

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Off to the Feast to break the Fast Seravnt

God Bless you and I hope your 19 Day Fast for the Love of God was as rewarding as mine.

P/S HAPPY NEW YEAR :whackadoo:

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

So truth is judged by the amount of followers?

No, my friend, its explicitly written in the Texts, HENCE, no followers of Muhammad Ali…

It looks like Christians win then.

Of course you win. You can always win dear friend. I hope victory is always yours

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[PeaceInChrist]

Just had to make a comment on that statement

What was sown was Unity, read any Tablet of Baha’u’llah and you will find that to be the Truth.

Would any one think the World does not need unity?

What is capable of obtaining this unity, if it was the religions of Old, then it appears it has not worked to date.

But I feel this is not what one wants to hear at this time, so lets agree to disagree on these subjects and agree that Love for Christ will never be quashed!

God Bless and Regards Tony

Jesus literally said His word would end up dividing. He came to bring not peace, but a sword. Truth causes disunity, because there will always be falsehood. Jesus knew this. It was expected, and will be this way.

There will be no unity. Truth will be opposed. Your faith is a good example of this. It opposes 2,000 years of Christ’s established truth.

 

[Servant19]

Off to the Feast to break the Fast Seravnt

God Bless you and I hope your 19 Day Fast for the Love of God was as rewarding as mine.

Regards Tony

God bless you Tony …and I pray that the fast has been a fruitful and spiritually reviving period for you.

Personally it was my most enjoyable fasting period ever!

Enjoy your Feast, partake of the Lord’s Supper and let it nourish your entire being!

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[PeaceInChrist]

…and yet this is exactly what Christianity has done with the Torah etc…

Is that not baffling to you?

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Is it? Like I said in another post, the Jews fully expected a messiah. Christians, at no point, expected a new one. They expected Jesus. He fit the bill: a Jew of the house of David who fulfilled the Scriptures (that were expected to be fulfilled). Read my other post.

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Just had to make a comment on that statement

What was sown was Unity, read any Tablet of Baha’u’llah and you will find that to be the Truth.

Would any one think the World does not need unity?

What is capable of obtaining this unity, if it was the religions of Old, then it appears it has not worked to date.

But I feel this is not what one wants to hear at this time, so lets agree to disagree on these subjects and agree that Love for Christ will never be quashed!

God Bless and Regards Tony

Would you like to address the whole statement, or do so selectively? Probably selectively, as has been the Bahai tradition in this thread.

 

[vsedriver]

As you are aware the Bible states that on Peter the Church will be built, but it was not seen to be that clear and Major divisions was the result.

The Church that was built on Peter still exists. It holds the fullness of the faith handed on to us by Jesus Christ and is protected from teaching error by the Holy Spirit.

That men turn from this One True Church is not an indictment of the Church but rather the evidence of the weakness of man who loves to be the one in charge and who has great difficulty in submitting to the will of God.

“Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.”

No other prophet is needed. God has spoken and shown us the way. Any who speak another Gospel is a false prophet.

 

[vsedriver]

PeaceInChrist - I think history has proven that the authority of who was to be Christs successor might not be that clear

Likewise!

 

[vsedriver]

Why did Jesus come and add further division to the Jewish sects?
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Those that refused to see what he was teaching because they were comfortable with their own personal view of God were the ones who divided the faith. Jesus did not come to do away with Judaism but to full fill it. That is to make it more perfect. It is always the lack of faith of men that cause division.

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Those that refused to see what he was teaching because they were comfortable with their own personal view of God were the ones who divided the faith. Jesus did not come to do away with Judaism but to full fill it. That is to make it more perfect. It is always the lack of faith of men that cause division.

They’ll just turn this argument right back at you. Their arguments are circular, and it’s literally all ‘interpretation’. You have to ‘be enlightened and open’ to see that three religions, who were not awaiting a new prophet (except the Jews, but he has to be a Jew and of the house of David), have all apostasized and were actually awaiting their prophet.

It difficult to argue with them because they’ll reject Christian history and valid succession based on the Fathers (even though we have primary source documents), and they’ll claim our interpretations of the bible are incorrect (even though they’ve been the only interpretations since the beginning). It’s ironic that they accept the Bible, but claim the legitimate successors of the Church became apostate (even though these very men proclaimed what was and wasn’t scripture). They’ll listen to Augustine for his opinion about what is scripture, but not his, or any church father, about the Trinity, Second Coming, authority of the bishops, ect.

There really is no point in arguing with them. I suppose it shows readers of the thread the weaknesses in their position, but you can’t make logical arguments with people who ignore logic (and history, and contradictions, ect).

 

[Servant19]

Like I said in another post, the Jews fully expected a messiah.

And Christianity fully expects the Return of Jesus Christ in the glory of the Father, to return with a “new name” (rev 3:12)

Christians, at no point, expected a new one.

A new one what?

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[PeaceInChrist]

And Christianity fully expects the Return of Jesus Christ in the glory of the Father, to return with a “new name” (rev 3:12)

You have got to be kidding me. Let’s see, how about we post a few verses:

11 I am coming soon; hold fast to what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. 12 If you conquer, I will make you a pillar in the temple of my God; you will never go out of it. I will write on you the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem that comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. 13 Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Are you seriously trying to apply this to your prophet? He’s talking to a specific church, and probably in code. And you’re applying this verse in Revelation literally, but take the Resurrection and Eucharist to be symbolic or metaphoric? Seriously?

Try this one:

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders, 9 if we are questioned today because of a good deed done to someone who was sick and are asked how this man has been healed, 10 let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that this man is standing before you in good health by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,[d] whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead. 11 ** This Jesus[e] is
‘the stone that was rejected by you, the builders;
it has become the cornerstone.’[f]
12 There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved. **

A new one what?

A new god. Oh, I’m sorry; a new ‘manifestation’ of God. Jesus was it. He is the only one. See Acts 4 above.

And how about responding to all of a post if you decide to respond? I sure try. Think you could?

 

[Servant19]

You have got to be kidding me. Let’s see, how about we post a few verses:

11 I am coming soon; hold fast to what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. 12 If you conquer, I will make you a pillar in the temple of my God; you will never go out of it. I will write on you the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem that comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. 13 Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Are you seriously trying to apply this to your prophet? He’s talking to a specific church, and probably in code. And you’re applying this verse in Revelation literally, but take the Resurrection and Eucharist to be symbolic or metaphoric? Seriously?

Try this one:

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders, 9 if we are questioned today because of a good deed done to someone who was sick and are asked how this man has been healed, 10 let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that this man is standing before you in good health by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,[d] whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead. 11 ** This Jesus[e] is
‘the stone that was rejected by you, the builders;
it has become the cornerstone.’[f]
12 There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved.**

A new god. Oh, I’m sorry; a new ‘manifestation’ of God. Jesus was it. He is the only one. See Acts 4 above.

And how about responding to all of a post if you decide to respond? I sure try. Think you could?

There are many many New Testament scholars who will testify to the fact that the Bible is intended to be a Book of spiritual Truths, rather than “historical facts”…sure there is some history in there but the intention was not as such, and as a result the symbolism contained within it is very difficult to decipher for sure.

I do not follow Baha’u’llah because He was this or that from the Bible. I have little to no FULL understanding of the Bibles intended meaning.

I follow Baha’u’llah for HIMSELF, nothing more and nothing less. He is the Return of ALL of the Messengers of God because He said so, and I believe Him. Why? Because I have studied His life, together with the life of the Bab and it has convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were Divine, both of them.

I’m happy to leave it at that for now, because it is clearly evident that we have irked you somewhat, and your tone is not coming accross as too peaceful, for someone who has found Peace In Christ, I am sorry to have switched on your non-peaceful side.

I am sorry I did not respond to the “entirety” of your post, if there is something that I missed, I apologize for my human shortcomings

God bless you…

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[PeaceInChrist]

There are many many New Testament scholars who will testify to the fact that the Bible is intended to be a Book of spiritual Truths, rather than “historical facts”…sure there is some history in there but the intention was not as such, and as a result the symbolism contained within it is very difficult to decipher for sure.

I do not follow Baha’u’llah because He was this or that from the Bible. I have little to no FULL understanding of the Bibles intended meaning.

I follow Baha’u’llah for HIMSELF, nothing more and nothing less. He is the Return of ALL of the Messengers of God because He said so, and I believe Him. Why? Because I have studied His life, together with the life of the Bab and it has convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were Divine, both of them.

I’m happy to leave it at that for now, because it is clearly evident that we have irked you somewhat, and your tone is not coming accross as too peaceful, for someone who has found Peace In Christ, I am sorry to have switched on your non-peaceful side.

I am sorry I did not respond to the “entirety” of your post, if there is something that I missed, I apologize for my human shortcomings

God bless you…

.

You see, this is why I get so frustrated. I explain your misinterpretation, put forth an argument (as I have with Acts 4 and the historical truth that Christians at no point expected a ‘new manifestation’ of God, but that Jesus was it), and instead of having my points addressed, you deflect the argument by making a different argument.

You LITERALLY just used Scripture to support your position, and then when I show you the context and another verse that declares Christ is the ONLY name by which we’re saved, it becomes all about your prophet and how you’re not a bible scholar, even though you JUST claimed that you interpret Christian Scripture more correctly than Christians in light of your faith, disregarding that a CENTRAL claim of your faith is that all scripture synchronizes. And then you proceed to throw out an ad hominem about my ‘peace’, which is irrelevant to a logical argument (and you’ve done this before, about how I’m not ‘open’, I’ve been warped by humanity, ect).

It is extremely difficult to maintain charity when my attempts at honest arguments are disregarded and ignored, instead being met with quotes from other scriptures, completely different arguments, or interpretations with no historical element whatsoever.

I am sorry I’ve been uncharitable. I’ll try to maintain my charity. But ‘I’m not a bible scholar’ and ‘because my other scriptures say this about your scriptures’ are not satisfactory rebuttals.

 

[tonyfish58]

The Church that was built on Peter still exists. It holds the fullness of the faith handed on to us by Jesus Christ and is protected from teaching error by the Holy Spirit.

That men turn from this One True Church is not an indictment of the Church but rather the evidence of the weakness of man who loves to be the one in charge and who has great difficulty in submitting to the will of God.

“Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.”

No other prophet is needed. God has spoken and shown us the way. Any who speak another Gospel is a false prophet.

The Baha’i Writings agree that “The Church that was built on Peter still exists”

…Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others and is like that of the sun. For example, its dawning in the sign of Christ was with the utmost splendor and radiance, and this is eternal and everlasting. See how many conquering kings there have been, how many statesmen and princes, powerful organizers, all of whom have disappeared, whereas the breezes of Christ are still blowing; His light is still shining; His melody is still resounding; His standard is still waving; His armies are still fighting; His heavenly voice is still sweetly melodious; His clouds are still showering gems; His lightning is still flashing; His reflection is still clear and brilliant; His splendor is still radiating and luminous; and it is the same with those souls who are under His protection and are shining with His light… Link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-38.html

As you can see we agree that “His splendor is still radiating and luminous; and it is the same with those souls who are under His protection and are shining with His light”

It is all how we look at the Return, the Resurrection!

God Bless and Regards