False religions, worship nothing or demons?

[tacdon]

There is no salvation for Christians who do not live the “way of life” dear friend…



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Oh I see you’re not a christian, I just looked at your religion.

If you want to get to heaven then Jesus is the only way for you to get there. If you choose not to believe that then it’s all on you.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Because they were myths. Unless of course, you’re suggesting people invoke/glorify them whenever they watch Thor or study mythology.

Maybe that’s why Buddhism and other eastern religions prefer the time ‘way of life’ rather than strictly religion.

I do not think in reading a Thor comic one is worshiping the Thor of Germanic Mythology. I do think however satanic influence is a real thing. I also think the human mind is a dangerous and real thing.

 

[Servant19]

1. your placing your own bahai assumptions on to Luke, that Luke Must have expected a greater prophet than Jesus. We have no reason to believe that.

Of course Luke didn’t expect another prophet. He was a human being with limited knowledge just like me.

If Baha’u’llah had not explicitly said so, I would genuinely believe (just like Luke) that Baha’u’llah was God, that there is no other to be worshiped and that to deny Baha’u’llah is to deny all the other Divines in the past.

1. Why would the name that is to be confessed, suddenly change to Muhammad 600 years later? Moses was not confessed as such before Jesus and in fact it was a radically different thing to say “Jesus is the only name under heaven which one will gain salvation through.”

Yes Moses was not confessed. But God has different missions for different Prophets. All are sent to “advance” and “fulfill” the Missions of those before Them

What is salvation? Salvation is to be in the grace of God. It is to be judged righteous at the end in the resurrection of the dead. Some Luke clearly believed in. Something bahai clearly deny.

The words “life” and “death” CLEARLY in the Bible do not refer to physical life and death. Its as clear as the noonday sun

1. Hebrews says these things as well.

Hebrews 2:9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Hebrews 5:16 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

Notice that Jesus is a priest and what was the function of the priest? The function of the priest was to offer sacrifices for the people. But the type of Priest Jesus is, is not the old priest but a priest of Melchizedek of which he is forever High Priest. This is how we make sense of later in this epistle the statement “once and for all sacrifice.” THat is the temple is no longer needed because has ended that which began with Abraham (and according to bahai ended twice with Krishna and Budha but reamerged through), Moses and the prophets. God is not a good who needs a continual sacrifice every generation, because Christ paid the price once and for all. Thus why is Jesus the only name under heaven by which men can be saved? Because Jesus died for humanity. Bahai fail to recognize this, trying to give the same honour to their own prophet whom they maintain was better than Jesus.

…no, Baha’u’llah does not say He is “better” than Jesus. They share a station of essential unity. Jesus never said He was “better” than Moses either.

It’s bizarre therefore that “Christians” claim that Jesus is “better” than Moses.



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[Lost_Wanderer]

I also think the human mind is a dangerous and real thing.

How so? It’s the key to our survival. It’s a core component of innovation. You couldn’t even pray without one.

 

[Servant19]

If you want to get to heaven then Jesus is the only way for you to get there.

How do you know that this is the case??

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[tacdon]

How do you know that this is the case??

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The Holy Spirit confirms this with my spirit.

Believe what you want, but you have been warned. On the day of judgment you will have no excuse.

 

[tacdon]

How do you know that this is the case??

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Where does your religion say that Christians go when they die?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

So you first beg us make the assumption that Luke didn’t expect the salvation of Jesus to be eternal. You then go on to say that of course Luke didn’t expect another prophet. How could Luke then not expect the salvation offered by Christ to be eternal? That is of course if Luke is the one inventing this account which you do not take (except for certain parts which you cannot use any objective criteria to judge so) as historical. This is all metaphysical fiction to you. What Jesus and the apostles actually said you do not know.

But I’m glad you admitted that you think Christians deny Jesus, thus we are false and do not hold to a correct view of religion. It’s a clarification that has long been begged.

Now, you go on to say that the words Life and death do not mean at all physical death. So Jesus wasn’t crucified then was he? Stephan wasn’t really killed or Martyred for the faith was he? What an intriguing way of reading the bible, a way that makes no sense whatsoever.

Now if your prophet was not superior to Jesus, why then does the author of the divinely inspired epistle which bahais proclaim they believe in says that he was better than Moses. That Moses was faithful but Jesus is greater. They are not all equal. In the gospels Jesus did things which Moses could not, he could forgive sins. Abraham did not know the mysteries of God like Jesus did, he was not a teacher like Jesus did, he was inferior to Jesus. Moses sinned, Jesus did not sin. How can you declare them all equal?

If we are bizarre, it is because we accept the bible which the bahai do not. But once again the bahai have made a thread focusing exclusively on themselves because they are the centre of the attention. Let me ask you, to which of the prophets ever sat at the right hand of God on the majesty on high? Jesus was the exact representation of God’s glory, Moses or Abraham were not. They were fallible men who made mistakes. Tell me, also what prophet created the universe? Was it Jesus or was it Muhammad?

How so? It’s the key to our survival. It’s a core component of innovation. You couldn’t even pray without one.

If you think the human mind is not dangerous, not capable of inventing serious evils. Then what kind of Catholic are you?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

If you think the human mind is not dangerous, not capable of inventing serious evils. Then what kind of Catholic are you?

The kind that doesn’t use danger as an excuse to not use something (or demean its value).

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The kind that doesn’t use danger as an excuse to not use something.

When did I ever deny the use of the mind in totality? Are we not refferring to the invention of false religions? If they do not come from the ever inventive and creative mind of man, where do they come from then? You seemed skeptical at the idea of them possibly coming from demonic influences. Which is it? Do false religions self actualize from nothing into the mind of people totally independent of their thought?

 

[Servant19]

Where does your religion say that Christians go when they die?

To the World of the Kingdom. Its a spiritual realm

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[Servant19]

So you first beg us make the assumption that Luke didn’t expect the salvation of Jesus to be eternal. You then go on to say that of course Luke didn’t expect another prophet. How could Luke then not expect the salvation offered by Christ to be eternal?

What Luke “thinks” and what actually is are two separate things entirely.

What is even more separate is what me and you “think” what Luke thinks. Theres a big gulf right there.

But I think its safe to say that if He meant eternally, He would have said “eternally” or “for ever and ever”

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[Lost_Wanderer]

When did I ever deny the use of the mind in totality? Are we not refferring to the invention of false religions? If they do not come from the ever inventive and creative mind of man, where do they come from then? You seemed skeptical at the idea of them possibly coming from demonic influences. Which is it? Do false religions self actualize from nothing into the mind of people totally independent of their thought?

The problem you’re posing isn’t just fear of using the mind. It’s the idea that the demonic seems to be the only alternative.

What’s so dangerous about the ideas of Buddhism and Bahai anyway? They just disagree with Christianity. I’ve had more ‘dangerous’ ideas that would make adherents to both religions pale.

 

[Servant19]

The Holy Spirit confirms this with my spirit.

Believe what you want, but you have been warned. On the day of judgment you will have no excuse.

Thanks for the heads up

I believe we are currently in the Day of Judgement. I heed the warning and take it very seriously indeed.

I have read the Bible. Have you read what Baha’u’llah says about the Day of Judgement, dear friend?



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[IgnatianPhilo]

What Luke “thinks” and what actually is are two separate things entirely.

What is even more separate is what me and you “think” what Luke thinks. Theres a big gulf right there.

But I think its safe to say that if He meant eternally, He would have said “eternally” or “for ever and ever”

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Because that would be a gospel, that your salvation is only for a short time. “Jesus died for you, he is the one who paid the price for your sins. BUT ONLY UNTIL THE NEXT PROPHET COMES, I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH! YOUR SALVATION IS NOT ETERNAL AND JESUS DID NOT DIE ONCE AND FOR ALL FOR SINNERS.” Lets lay it out. So the death of Jesus buys six hundred years, Jesus a man greater than Muhammad whom was a war lord and conquered much land, performed no miracles, forgave no one’s sins, did not create the universe, did not die for his people.He however can buy 1400 years of salvation.

How does the bahai economy of salvation work exactly? Your prophet did what? He came, wrote alot of things, established a community, advocated a one world government (brave new world here we come) and was shot by a firing squad and yet he will purchase for us 1000 years? No, he will purchase for bahais only 1000 years. So when 1000 years are up and the next manifestation is revealed will you have to change your religion in heaven?

This is absurd. I’m done.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The problem you’re posing isn’t just fear of using the mind. It’s the idea that the demonic seems to be the only alternative.

What’s so dangerous about the ideas of Buddhism and Bahai anyway? They just disagree with Christianity. I’ve had more ‘dangerous’ ideas that would make adherents to both religions pale.

I’m pretty sure I advocated both the mind and demonic influence. If there is a third option do tell. If you think the mind in of itself is so awesome, then what place does God have in your world view? We are to receive God primarily, we are to receive the tradition handed down to us.

And you should read what the bahais are saying if you don’t think they are dangerous. They are advocating that the salvation of Is Jesus is not enough, that you need something more, you need their prophet. You cannot believe as a bahai Jesus died once for and for the price of our sins. As for the Budhist, their ideas are about escaping the natural cycle of reincarnation.

I tend to think these are man made ideas or demonic. I don’t know, I’m just guessing. Certainty they do not come from God.

 

[Servant19]

Because that would be a gospel, that your salvation is only for a short time. "Jesus died for you, he is the one who paid the price for your sins. BUT ONLY UNTIL THE NEXT PROPHET COMES, I CANNOT STRESS THIS YOUR SALVATION IS NOT ETERNAL AND JESUS DID NOT DIE ONCE AND FOR ALL FOR SINNERS. So the death of Jesus buys six hundred years, Jesus a man greater than muhammad whom was a war lord and conquered much land, performed no miracles, forgave no one sins, did not create the universe, did not die for his people. Yet muhammad buys 1400 years of salvation.

I think you persist to misunderstand the purpose of Muhammad and deny that Muslims believe in the sacrifice of Jesus. Muslims love Jesus as much as you.

You say that in order to love someone it must be done by hugging them. Muslims prefer to kiss their loved one (this is an example btw) Is one a denial of the other? No, both are expressions of love.

How does the bahai economy of salvation work exactly? Your prophet did what, he came, wrote alot of things, established a community, advocated a one world government (brave new world here we come) and was shot by a firing squad and yet he will purchase for us 1000 years? No, he will purchase for bahais only 1000 years. So when 1000 years are up and the next manifestation is revealed will you have to change your religion in heaven?

This is absurd. I’m done.

Not much different to Jesus really…

Ok, take care my friend

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[Servant19]

I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH! YOUR SALVATION IS NOT ETERNAL AND JESUS DID NOT DIE ONCE AND FOR ALL FOR SINNERS."

I am doing the Will of the Father. As long as I do that, Jesus tells me that I can enter the Kingdom of Heaven

Pretty simple really…

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[IgnatianPhilo]

I think you persist to misunderstand the purpose of Muhammad and deny that Muslims believe in the sacrifice of Jesus. Muslims love Jesus as much as you.

You say that in order to love someone it must be done by hugging them. Muslims prefer to kiss their loved one (this is an example btw) Is one a denial of the other? No, both are expressions of love.

Not much different to Jesus really…

Ok, take care my friend

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I’m just pointing out that the inconsistency. You advocate peace and not war. Yet Muhammad was a violent conqueror, to be a conqueror of land demands you to be violent. Moses did it as well but he bought less time than Muhammad, depending on whenever the Buddha came about. Bahais agree that we should be like Jesus and not advocate like Muhammad that whatever our right hand posses (women slaves) we can make use of. You go to Jesus more than Muhammad because you know he was a better person. So when the next prophet comes and he advocates war, will he purchase greater time of salvaiton than Muhammad? What does a prophet have to do to enlarge the amount of years between the salvation he buys for people? Why did the author of Hebrews lie to us? Why did the new testament lie to the Christian?

But I maintain a strict difference between your prophet and Jesus. For one thing he did not create the universe. His is not the name under heaven and earth which will save you. No bahai cries out in the name of “Ali Hussein, the father and the holy spirit.” For one thing, your prophet does not sit at the right hand of God.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I am doing the Will of the Father. As long as I do that, Jesus tells me that I can enter the Kingdom of Heaven

Pretty simple really…

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If you ignore the words of Jesus, Paul, Hebrews, Peter, John and all the apostolic witness and testimony and those who knew the apostles. Sure you can say that if you ignore all of those. You cannot deal with the bible though. You can take things from it and misuse them but you cannot deal with it. If Jesus says he is the only way to the father you have to tell Jesus he is wrong.