False signs and wonders

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In the New Testament it says that there will be those who will perform false “signs and wonders” .

“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie”~ 2 Thessalonians 2: 9

“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.” ~ Matthew 24: 24

My question is where do these false prophets/anti-christs get the power to do these things? If it comes from demons, do demons have the power to manipulate the laws of nature within God’s permissive will? How far would such a false sign go? It is said in the Old Testament that the magicians of pharaoh did the same wonders as Moses up to a point, even causing snakes to materialize from their staffs. Assuming the snakes in question were physical snakes, would this mean that demons can somehow cause it to appear like they’ve created from nothing??

I guess the gist of the question is how far can demons have the power to influence the material world in ways that are contrary to ordinary natural law? Why would God’s permissive will allow such tampering with His created order?

Pax Christi.
 
roseproject said:
My question is where do these false prophets/anti-christs get the power to do these things?
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Hi. It would be good to have an example of false signs to refer to as I don’t know of anyone famous for performing miracles. But I would say a false prophet would be powered by Satan himself.
roseproject said:
I guess the gist of the question is how far can demons have the power to influence the material world in ways that are contrary to ordinary natural law?
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Satan is capable of so many kinds of deception but I don’t know too much about demons.
roseproject said:
Why would God’s permissive will allow such tampering with His created order?
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I pondered the same question and my conclusion was that we just don’t know.
I suspect we only know a fraction of the truth.

I have a suspicion that Marian apparitions are false signs, that it’s not Mary at all but a deception by the evil one. I ask for God’s forgiveness if I’m wrong about that.
 
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roseproject said:
In the New Testament it says that there will be those who will perform false “signs and wonders” .

“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie”~ 2 Thessalonians 2: 9

“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.” ~ Matthew 24: 24

My question is where do these false prophets/anti-christs get the power to do these things?
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The answer is in your post… From Satan…

“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie”

There shall be one antiChrist who shall come in the flesh - which partially signals the Return of JESUS
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Well it has happened - David Koresh and Jimmy Jones both claimed to be God and look what happened - both Baptist Ministers.
 
BT3241 said:
Well it has happened - David Koresh and Jimmy Jones both claimed to be God and look what happened - both Baptist Ministers.
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Without a firm Foundation
  • Humans whose nature as is Sheep/Followers - easily fall prey to those who Lie and Oppose Jesus…
_
 
EndTimes said:
Without a firm Foundation
  • Humans whose nature as is Sheep/Followers - easily fall prey to those who Lie and Oppose Jesus…
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I don’t know who these two people are so is your “without a firm foundation” comment about their claim to be God or about them being Baptist ministers.
 

This is a good start, Peter Kreeft has written much on the topic.
 
They weren’t Baptist’s, Jones was a charismatic faith healer, cult leader, who took his followers to Guyana and killed them with cyanide laced kool aid: around 900 people. It’s where the phrase “Don’t drink the kool aid” came from. Basically shocked the the world, no 24 hour news cycle at the time so similar in scale to 911 in that it was a topic in the news for quite a while.

Koresh was a Branch Davidian cult leader (seventh day Adventist group) had a standoff the the fbi in Waco Texas. Apocalyptic prophet, followers killed by fire in compound when house burned down.

Both complete nuts.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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EndTimes said:
Older folk know them as very (in)famous people… Look them up.
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Thistle isn’t from USA. Please remember that this is a worldwide forum and not everybody in every country is keeping up with United States-based cult leaders, any more than we know the names of infamous people from their countries.
 
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Nicene said:
They weren’t Baptist’s, Jones was a charismatic faith healer, cult leader, who took his followers to Guyana and killed them with cyanide laced kool aid: around 900 people. It’s where the phrase “Don’t drink the kool aid” came from. Basically shocked the the world, no 24 hour news cycle at the time so similar in scale to 911 in that it was a topic in the news for quite a while.

Koresh was a Branch Davidian cult leader (seventh day Adventist group) had a standoff the the fbi in Waco Texas. Apocalyptic prophet, followers killed by fire in compound when house burned down.

Both complete nuts.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Thanks Nicene… They made long-term major news in the US of A
 
TO THE OP:

“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie”

There shall be one antiChrist who shall come in the flesh - which partially signals the Return of JESUS
 
Pai_Nosso said:
I suspect we only know a fraction of the truth.

I have a suspicion that Marian apparitions are false signs, that it’s not Mary at all but a deception by the evil one. I ask for God’s forgiveness if I’m wrong about that.
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That’s certainly a possibility.

One might argue that some Marian apparitions are false signs, but not all. For that matter, one can argue everything in the Bible is false signs (apparitions), that “Mary” and “Jesus” never existed.

For me, I rely on the Magisterium guidance.

Thus, some Marian apparitions, such as at the Annunciation, the Visitation, the Nativity, and others, are true - public revelation.

Other apparitions, such as Fatima, are compatible with the truth. But they are not public revelation, they are also not demonic. Not untrue.

Still other apparitions have been examined, and are unapproved. The Church doesn’t identify (untrue) Bayside or Conyers apparitions or unusual manifestation as to cause: demonic?
Intentional psychological manipulation? Sleight of hand? Unintentional?

Doesn’t really matter to me. If Satan can persuade hundreds of millions to get abortions, a little signs and wonders would be a piece of cake. But the truth would be absent.
 
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BigRon said:
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commenter:
One might argue that some Marian apparitions are false signs, but not all.
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Wasn’t Garabandal condemned? The children were running uphill backwards or something?
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I don’t know about “condemned”. If the individuals involved found the experience brought them closer to God in prayer and action, then for them (only) it was probably good.

I’m sure many people have private revelations - perhaps an apparition - that can offer them, personally, encouragement. But they need to confirm it by public revelation.
 
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