Fantasy Magic =/= Real Magic(k)

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Lost_Wanderer

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(I originally wanted to post this thread in another category but I felt I’d get more response here.)

Now it has come to my attention more than once these past two months but it seems that there are some Catholics (even on this site), who still can’t tell the difference between magic in fiction and magic in the real world. I would also like to add that many of these people also tend to label anything that glorifies magic and fantasy as occult and are “tools of satan”.

Frankly, this saddens me. :nope:

During my discussions with them, I have found some common or significant arguments and here, I will address them so that in the future, you might want to think about these things before you start labeling things as demonic.

I. The Bible forbids magic, divination, witchcraft etc.
As I said before, there’s a huge difference between the many kinds of magic you see in fantasy and the kind we have in the real world. First difference is the most obvious: Appearance. Now, watch this video here. It’s taken from a popular anime called Card Captor Sakura and is about a young girl who accidentally unleashes a set of powerful cards and must use a magic of her own to seal them again.

People, do you seriously think that real life magic spells, as in the ones practiced by the likes of Wiccans and pagans, are anything like that? They’re not. Look it up. There are no bright lights, no magic circle suddenly showing up under your feet, and nothing appears out of thin air. What the Bible and the Church condemn are actual practices that leave you dangerously open to demonic forces. They don’t say anything condemning any sort of unnatural phenomenon in fiction that just happens to get labeled with the word magic. (Heck, some wiccans even say it’s spelled magick not magic. :rolleyes:)

II. People who like to pretend they have magic rely on their own power instead of God and thus, want to be God.
Not necessarily. Anything I can do as a Wizard, God can do it way better. If I can rain meteors on one spot, God can rain meteors on entire cities. Now what am I trying to say here? Just because I like the idea of wielding such power, it doesn’t mean I’ll be a match for an omnipotent being. And what is wrong with relying on one’s own strength? Is that not a gift from God? Does He not give people talents and gifts so they may use it to glorify Him and what is good?

III. Fantasy glorifies magic and monsters.
This is similar to the first one. People say that fantasy fiction often glorifies magic and creatures that are considered “evil”. However, as I said before, this is just another difference between reality and fantasy.

In the worlds of fantasy (including stories that are set on a planet Earth just like ours), people use magic constantly and is depicted as a neutral phenomenon/force. And not only are the effects physically presented as a reality, the magic users themselves do not suffer from the demonic attacks that plague those who are involved in occult activities in our world (the real world). Does this, however, change our actual reality? That real magic isn’t occult? No.

The similar things can be said of monsters. I’ve heard people complain of how we have begun to glorify creatures that have been traditionally considered evil. The problem with that is that there are differences between monsters in fantasy and their counterparts in the real world (if they even exist :rolleyes:). For example, in Twilight, vampires are said to “sparkle” in the sun when the usual depiction was that they would turn to dust.

To be honest, I don’t know why you should cling to such notions when they are only traditions of literature, not the Church. Mermaids, dwarves, dragons and vampires were all once considered malicious entities however, what is so morally wrong to depict them otherwise? There are so many variations of even one creature in fiction these days but are they presenting the real thing? (That is to say if the real thing even exists.)

IV. Why engage in Fantasy when there are “better” thing to do?
One of the biggest mistakes I’ve seen religious people (of any belief) make with regards to fantasy is that they assume religious material would make a much better substitute. Look we all know that it’s nice to read the Bible, the lives of the saints, papal encyclicals but you forget the actual purpose of these things: spirituality. They are there to teach the faithful just as much as textbooks are there to teach students about science, math, history etc. However, not all students are brainiacs obsessed with such subjects or getting high grades. If I wanted to learn about the Church’s position on homosexuality, I’d read the Catechism. If I wanted to do well in my Biology class, I’d study my notes and books.

If I wanted to have fun and kick back however, I wouldn’t do either of these things! I’d grab the nearest RPG, watch an anime episode, or read a manga. Don’t you see? People engage in fantasy for entertainment. There’s a time for spirituality and a time to have fun. There’s a time for work and a time for play.

Here’s a much simpler analogy. Say your child loves playing with robot action figures like this one. He does all sorts of typical things kids do with such toys like pretend they’re flying, shooting lasers, and makes sounds that go with it like “Whoosh! Whoosh! Blam! Blam!”



Now in your house, you have a statue of the Blessed Virgin or of a particular saint. Would you want your child to play with those things the same way he would play with his robot? Seriously. I don’t want to imagine it.
 
I’ve had people tell me occasionally on why I don’t ever fantasize with being shoulder to shoulder with the saints or Biblical figures. Well, sorry, but they don’t make good party members. I have friends who do. Wise teachers like St. Paul or Moses are more likely to be depicted in RPGs as NPCs (non-player characters). You can’t imagine them holding swords, casting spells, or defending against hordes of monsters. :nope:

Well, these are so far the most typical arguments I’ve heard. Note this was not meant to antagonize anybody but merely a clarification of people’s misconception of fantasy fiction. Thank you and God Bless.
 
While I have nothing to say about the OP, I find it pretty remarkable that you average over 100 posts per day on this forum alone.

:eek:
 
Fantasy magic can be a bad thing and have associations with real magic. For instance, J.K. Rowling’s books (which I enormously enjoy reading- some of the best character development I’ve ever read) have led loads of young people to engage in witchcraft. Which is a major negative. So I do think the Devil is using her books.

However, C.S. Lewis and Tolkien have not had the same effect. Their books celebrate God, rather than focusing on reliance on human powers and abilities.

There’s a lot of nuance here, and it’s incorrect to label anything fantasy as automatically Satanic, because it isn’t. A lot of good fantasy fiction is out there that is just that and nothing more, good fiction. And there also is some which is bad. I got negatively influenced by one fantasy book’s explicit sexual content at one point, which sent me into a spiritual war against the devil who used this against me for about a year, before I gained real freedom from it. And other books negatively impact people in other ways.

But Tolkien and Lewis don’t have that impact, and there is a lot of Christian fantasy that is blessed and helps people to think about issues or God more carefully. It doesn’t even have to be Christian, either- there’s a lot of non-Christian fantasy that just invents worlds and rules and powers and it’s obvious that it’s intended to be fake. I don’t believe anyone is negatively impacted by a lot of those fun fiction stories.

It’s just there’s too much nuance here to type-cast and stereotype an entire genre in this way. There’s good and bad and a lot in between.
 
Fantasy magic can be a bad thing and have associations with real magic. For instance, J.K. Rowling’s books (which I enormously enjoy reading- some of the best character development I’ve ever read) have led loads of young people to engage in witchcraft. Which is a major negative. So I do think the Devil is using her books.
Hmm… you know I’m often skeptical about that. Sometimes I get the feeling that the only way that became true was that the fundamentalists were the first to start pointing things out. Then there’s the age-old idea that when you ban something, it only makes it more appealing.

There are just too many factors to consider when it comes to Harry Potter. I for one believe that those who ended up practicing real witchcraft because of those books clearly held no distinction between fantasy and reality. Then we have to consider that there are other books and paraphernalia that delved more into the original sources of Rowling’s ideas. :\
 
I haven’t finished reading the “Morals of Magic” yet but I’d like to point out that even when the reality of magic is set in a world like ours, why aren’t the wizards and witches in the story being plagued by demonic attacks as practitioners of the occult in the real world always are?

I think the better thing to say is that real magic is not like the magic you read in books.
 
Hmm… you know I’m often skeptical about that. Sometimes I get the feeling that the only way that became true was that the fundamentalists were the first to start pointing things out. Then there’s the age-old idea that when you ban something, it only makes it more appealing.

There are just too many factors to consider when it comes to Harry Potter. I for one believe that those who ended up practicing real witchcraft because of those books clearly held no distinction between fantasy and reality. Then we have to consider that there are other books and paraphernalia that delved more into the original sources of Rowling’s ideas. :\
To me, it’s no coincidence that there’s been a big surge in the number of youth involved in witchcraft simultaneously with the massive sales of the Harry Potter books. I love them as fiction, and I know lots of other people that do, but those books do blur the line between the real and the supernatural because they present pagan concepts within what is presented as our modern world. Other books sometimes do the same thing, as you mention, and sometimes a lot worse. But none so popularly.
 
To me, it’s no coincidence that there’s been a big surge in the number of youth involved in witchcraft simultaneously with the massive sales of the Harry Potter books. I love them as fiction, and I know lots of other people that do, but those books do blur the line between the real and the supernatural because they present pagan concepts within what is presented as our modern world. Other books sometimes do the same thing, as you mention, and sometimes a lot worse. But none so popularly.
I read that there was a book called Wizardology that was connected to Harry Potter in some way. There are other books and materials as well that have delved more into the original sources of Rowling’s mythos. I don’t think it’s really the fault of the books themselves. It sounds more like the merchandise that followed it. :\

I still don’t seem to understand why kids got drawn into the crazy (and imo, pointless) coven style witchcraft because of Harry Potter. I’ve played games that used magic in ways just like in the books but I’ve never been drawn into the occult. :confused:
 
interesting topic…

before I was a Christian, I almost started practicing ‘witchcraft’. I don’t mean the fictional type, but the real thing. I’m soo thankful God brought me out of that though. It’s really dangerous.

I’ve also read the Harry Potter books, and I personally enjoyed reading them. Having researched the “real thing”, I can say that the “magic” in Harry Potter in totally fictional! No one is able to actually do these spells and make objects float in mid air or do ‘transfiguration’ etc.

If there are kids who got involved in witchcraft because of Harry Potter, that’s really sad. I hope they’ll realize that they’ll never be able to do the things Harry does in the books. Real “magic” doesn’t actually “work” like that. It’s much less interesting. It’s also demonic, and based on superstition and once a person gets involved in it, they open themselves up to evil. It’s largely based on a desire for power, pride, and a desire for control. There’s no such thing as “white magic”… it all comes from the enemy.

😦
 
interesting topic…

before I was a Christian, I almost started practicing ‘witchcraft’. I don’t mean the fictional type, but the real thing. I’m soo thankful God brought me out of that though. It’s really dangerous.

I’ve also read the Harry Potter books, and I personally enjoyed reading them. Having researched the “real thing”, I can say that the “magic” in Harry Potter in totally fictional! No one is able to actually do these spells and make objects float in mid air or do ‘transfiguration’ etc.

If there are kids who got involved in witchcraft because of Harry Potter, that’s really sad. I hope they’ll realize that they’ll never be able to do the things Harry does in the books. Real “magic” doesn’t actually “work” like that. It’s much less interesting. It’s also demonic, and based on superstition and once a person gets involved in it, they open themselves up to evil. It’s largely based on a desire for power, pride, and a desire for control. There’s no such thing as “white magic”… it all comes from the enemy.

😦
Tell me about it! What kind of irresponsible parent would allow a child to remain ignorant about how such things are scientifically impossible? :mad:
 
I read that there was a book called Wizardology that was connected to Harry Potter in some way. There are other books and materials as well that have delved more into the original sources of Rowling’s mythos. I don’t think it’s really the fault of the books themselves. It sounds more like the merchandise that followed it. :\

I still don’t seem to understand why kids got drawn into the crazy (and imo, pointless) coven style witchcraft because of Harry Potter. I’ve played games that used magic in ways just like in the books but I’ve never been drawn into the occult. :confused:
I know, I don’t think it’s a reasonable choice either, but it seems some kids do. I expect that the lines outside of good Christian families look a whole lot fuzzier to many people, and practicing magic might look “chic,” especially with Harry Potter so popular.

Monica, I’m glad your experience at least makes you now a stronger witness to anyone considering involvement in witchcraft, or practicing it.
 
Anyone ever read Madeline Howard’s “Rune of Unmaking?” or her “A Dark Sacrifice?” Wow, SO AWESOME!

Or How about Octavia Butler’s “Wild Seed?” The ending made me cry!
 
Tell me about it! What kind of irresponsible parent would allow a child to remain ignorant about how such things are scientifically impossible? :mad:
Scientifically impossible? Hmmm, physics is uncovering the possibilities of things many of us would consider “magic,” you know. Not saying Harry Potter stuff, just some pretty amazing things. “Physics of the Impossible” is a great book I own. Right now, I forget the author, but he’s a scientist.

I actually, kind of, think there is a type of make-up to the Angelic also, I mean there must, God is the only true “Magic” having no author. Though the angels are beyond our boundries of study.

I know i know, it’s weird. 😛
 
Scientifically impossible? Hmmm, physics is uncovering the possibilities of things many of us would consider “magic,” you know. Not saying Harry Potter stuff, just some pretty amazing things. “Physics of the Impossible” is a great book I own. Right now, I forget the author, but he’s a scientist.

I actually, kind of, think there is a type of make-up to the Angelic also, I mean there must, God is the only true “Magic” having no author. Though the angels are beyond our boundries of study.

I know i know, it’s weird. 😛
Are you talking about this book?

To be honest, I thought I was going to run into a book exploring sci-fi possibilities such as lasers and force fields… and I was half-right.

The rest of the reviews though… wow… parallel dimensions? Teleportation? Telepathy even? I gotta say I’m impressed! :eek:
 
Are you talking about this book?

To be honest, I thought I was going to run into a book exploring sci-fi possibilities such as lasers and force fields… and I was half-right.

The rest of the reviews though… wow… parallel dimensions? Teleportation? Telepathy even? I gotta say I’m impressed! :eek:
Yes, exactly! and it is a fascinating read! He talks about possible time travel.

Christians usually balk at the idea of Telepathy, but you know, we do not understand the brain entirely. Maybe Telepathy is natural? I think many “magics” could simply be natural orders of complexity we just do not understand, and some we can not ever understand. This, to me, brings more glory and mystery to God.
 
Yes, exactly! and it is a fascinating read! He talks about possible time travel.

Christians usually balk at the idea of Telepathy, but you know, we do not understand the brain entirely. Maybe Telepathy is natural? I think many “magics” could simply be natural orders of complexity we just do not understand, and some we can not ever understand. This, to me, brings more glory and mystery to God.
Yeah, sometimes I pray to God that I could use some form of natural but still extraordinary power such as telepathy… things like that usually shut up the skeptics in less than a heartbeat. :o
 
Yes, on some points I agree with you. For instance, I play Maplestory, and I see nothing wrong with the fantasy magic portrayed there. I also like FF7. And I see nothing wrong with that either. One thing that suprised me is the game Kingdom Hearts. That game’s more christian than most “christian” books, movies and games out there, and yes, it has magic.
The problem is how it’s portrayed. It can be divided into 3 kinds of fantasy.
  1. Good, solid christian fantasy
    Magic is seen as God working through man, and those who try to break away from that are evil.
  2. Secular Fantasy
    Can be either good or bad depending on the messages and the kind of magic used. Is it “Light” or “Darkness”? How are these portrayed? Do the ends justify the means? Is Magic used to heal or destroy?
  3. Satanic Fantasy
    Darkness is portrayed as good, pitting a “good guy” with dark powers against an evil one who’s worse. Light is portrayed as childish and ineffective. Knighthood, crusaders, lions, good wizards and mages are attacked while demons, (western) dragons, witches, and evil philosophy are promoted.
So basically, Narnia, LOTR, and yes, Star wars fall into (1).
Games like WoW, Maplestory (some) final fantasy games, and movies like Advent Children and The Spiderwick Chronicles fall into (2)
Harry Potter, His Dark Materials, Da Vinci Code and Dune fall into (3).
Hope this helps 😃
 
Yes, on some points I agree with you. For instance, I play Maplestory, and I see nothing wrong with the fantasy magic portrayed there. I also like FF7. And I see nothing wrong with that either. One thing that suprised me is the game Kingdom Hearts. That game’s more christian than most “christian” books, movies and games out there, and yes, it has magic.
The problem is how it’s portrayed. It can be divided into 3 kinds of fantasy.
  1. Good, solid christian fantasy
    Magic is seen as God working through man, and those who try to break away from that are evil.
  2. Secular Fantasy
    Can be either good or bad depending on the messages and the kind of magic used. Is it “Light” or “Darkness”? How are these portrayed? Do the ends justify the means? Is Magic used to heal or destroy?
  3. Satanic Fantasy
    Darkness is portrayed as good, pitting a “good guy” with dark powers against an evil one who’s worse. Light is portrayed as childish and ineffective. Knighthood, crusaders, lions, good wizards and mages are attacked while demons, (western) dragons, witches, and evil philosophy are promoted.
So basically, Narnia, LOTR, and yes, Star wars fall into (1).
Games like WoW, Maplestory (some) final fantasy games, and movies like Advent Children and The Spiderwick Chronicles fall into (2)
Harry Potter, His Dark Materials, Da Vinci Code and Dune fall into (3).
Hope this helps 😃
Hmm… I guess you could say that’s a very well written analysis. I’m kinda surprised! 😃 I feel the same way about Kingdom Hearts too. It’s one of my most favorite video games. X3 My only complaint though would be the way you put Harry Potter on number 3. It kinda strikes me more as a number 2 imo though I do have a problem with the supposed liberal ideals it is said to be promoting. :hmmm:
 
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