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Eucharisted
Guest
I’d rather know and adhere to the Church’s teachings than have all the knowledge in the world, and that includes the definition of presupoosition.
- Status
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
face palm
Come on man, as a Catholic you should be a little bit more educated than that. whips out dictionary
Here’s the definition of presupposition.
You see when you say “magic”, you already have a presupposition based on the Church’s position even though my presupposition of the word “magic” is entirely different. Furthermore, I’m starting to get the feeling that you never really read my first post thoroughly now did you? Fantasy in fiction depicts all kinds of phenomenon that are all labeled with the word “magic”. Anybody who has read the Church’s stance on magic can see that the type that they define can be considered another variation entirely (and in my opinion, I can see why they would call it demonic considering that real magick pales in the coolness department when compared to fictional magic).
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The_Catholic
Guest
Eucharisted is one who is very extreme, and from the choice of words the individual commonly uses, very narrow minded
and I say this out of respect and love, Lol, Eucharisted reminds me of myself when I used to belong to “Family Radio.” —an ultra-calvinistic orginization. 
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The_Catholic
Guest
LOL, oh wow, talk about . . . prideful. You’re actually making me laugh, hehe. I can’t take you seriously, sorry
You will know them by their fruits—the most clearest evidence that shows the presence of God in someone—even if they are not Catholic.
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Lief_Erikson
Guest
Would you explain what you mean here? Are you saying you don’t believe anyone has supernatural power from the devil?
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The_Catholic
Guest
There was a time when airplanes (flying machines of metal) and a computer system were thought about as impossibe, “magical.” Yet, if mankind didn’t pursue those ideas and “magics” hehe, we wouldn’t have such things.
There is no such thing as “magic” EXCEPT for God—HE is the True Magic, everything else has been created.
But imagining such things I think is perfectly normal. Like I said before, it’s how a person looks into it. Some, by using the Scriptures, become fanatic and hateful, yet we don’t keep the written Word in the cupboards because of people’s mistakes and stupidity. Likewise, why should all fantasy (unless it is a direct attack against God) be evil? It expands the mind, enlightens the soul. Many honost and respectful and lovablepeople, where God’s Spirit clearly shows, love reading a good fictional fantasy story. Are they dammed? How absurd! You will know them by their fruits.
There is no such thing as “magic” EXCEPT for God—HE is the True Magic, everything else has been created.
But imagining such things I think is perfectly normal. Like I said before, it’s how a person looks into it. Some, by using the Scriptures, become fanatic and hateful, yet we don’t keep the written Word in the cupboards because of people’s mistakes and stupidity. Likewise, why should all fantasy (unless it is a direct attack against God) be evil? It expands the mind, enlightens the soul. Many honost and respectful and lovablepeople, where God’s Spirit clearly shows, love reading a good fictional fantasy story. Are they dammed? How absurd! You will know them by their fruits.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
No. I am simply saying that fictional/fantasy magic is the same as the magic of your typical carnival magician. You know, the one that does ‘em sleight o’ hand card tricks and pulls bunnies out of a top hat.
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The_Catholic
Guest
The “Morals of Magic” does not condemn fantasy altogether, neither does it forbid the reading of Harry Potter. It simply warns or gives advice to read other great works of fantasy “Tolkien and Lewis” alongside of it, to keep a balance.
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The_Catholic
Guest
hahahaNo. I am simply saying that fictional/fantasy magic is the same as the magic of your typical carnival magician. You know, the one that does ‘em sleight o’ hand card tricks and pulls bunnies out of a top hat.
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Hater_free
Guest
“Many of those who had become believers came forward and openly acknowledged their former practices. Moreover, a large number of those who had practiced magic collected their books and burned them in public. They calculated their value and found it to be fifty thousand silver pieces. Thus did the word of the Lord continue to spread with influence and power.” {Acts 19:18-20}
“But as for cowards,* the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” " {Revelation 21:8}
" * Thus Saul died because of his rebellion against the LORD in disobeying his command, and also because he had sought counsel of a necromancer, and had not rather inquired of the LORD. Therefore the LORD slew him, and transferred his kingdom to David, the son of Jesse." {1 Chronicles 10:13-14}
“Do not go to mediums or consult fortune-tellers, for you will be defiled by them. I, The LORD, am your God.” {Leviticus 19:31}
“Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire,* nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghost and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, and because of such abominations the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out of your way.” {Deuteronomy 18:10-12}
Just a few of the many addressing this subject. God bless to all on here & everywhere!!!
:tiphat:
“But as for cowards,* the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” " {Revelation 21:8}
" * Thus Saul died because of his rebellion against the LORD in disobeying his command, and also because he had sought counsel of a necromancer, and had not rather inquired of the LORD. Therefore the LORD slew him, and transferred his kingdom to David, the son of Jesse." {1 Chronicles 10:13-14}
“Do not go to mediums or consult fortune-tellers, for you will be defiled by them. I, The LORD, am your God.” {Leviticus 19:31}
“Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire,* nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghost and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, and because of such abominations the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out of your way.” {Deuteronomy 18:10-12}
Just a few of the many addressing this subject. God bless to all on here & everywhere!!!
:tiphat:
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
You skipped over my first post now didn’t you?Just a few of the many addressing this subject. God bless to all on here & everywhere!!!
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mangy_dog
Guest
Your view of the seemingly inocuous is perfectly summed up in the little caption at the end of your thread, “I side with the Light but I’m cursed by the Darkness”.(I originally wanted to post this thread in another category but I felt I’d get more response here.)
Now it has come to my attention more than once these past two months but it seems that there are some Catholics (even on this site), who still can’t tell the difference between magic in fiction and magic in the real world. I would also like to add that many of these people also tend to label anything that glorifies magic and fantasy as occult and are “tools of satan”.
Frankly, this saddens me. :nope:
During my discussions with them, I have found some common or significant arguments and here, I will address them so that in the future, you might want to think about these things before you start labeling things as demonic.
I. The Bible forbids magic, divination, witchcraft etc.
As I said before, there’s a huge difference between the many kinds of magic you see in fantasy and the kind we have in the real world. First difference is the most obvious: Appearance. Now, watch this video here. It’s taken from a popular anime called Card Captor Sakura and is about a young girl who accidentally unleashes a set of powerful cards and must use a magic of her own to seal them again.
People, do you seriously think that real life magic spells, as in the ones practiced by the likes of Wiccans and pagans, are anything like that? They’re not. Look it up. There are no bright lights, no magic circle suddenly showing up under your feet, and nothing appears out of thin air. What the Bible and the Church condemn are actual practices that leave you dangerously open to demonic forces. They don’t say anything condemning any sort of unnatural phenomenon in fiction that just happens to get labeled with the word magic. (Heck, some wiccans even say it’s spelled magick not magic.
II. People who like to pretend they have magic rely on their own power instead of God and thus, want to be God.
Not necessarily. Anything I can do as a Wizard, God can do it way better. If I can rain meteors on one spot, God can rain meteors on entire cities. Now what am I trying to say here? Just because I like the idea of wielding such power, it doesn’t mean I’ll be a match for an omnipotent being. And what is wrong with relying on one’s own strength? Is that not a gift from God? Does He not give people talents and gifts so they may use it to glorify Him and what is good?
III. Fantasy glorifies magic and monsters.
This is similar to the first one. People say that fantasy fiction often glorifies magic and creatures that are considered “evil”. However, as I said before, this is just another difference between reality and fantasy.
In the worlds of fantasy (including stories that are set on a planet Earth just like ours), people use magic constantly and is depicted as a neutral phenomenon/force. And not only are the effects physically presented as a reality, the magic users themselves do not suffer from the demonic attacks that plague those who are involved in occult activities in our world (the real world). Does this, however, change our actual reality? That real magic isn’t occult? No.
The similar things can be said of monsters. I’ve heard people complain of how we have begun to glorify creatures that have been traditionally considered evil. The problem with that is that there are differences between monsters in fantasy and their counterparts in the real world (if they even exist
To be honest, I don’t know why you should cling to such notions when they are only traditions of literature, not the Church. Mermaids, dwarves, dragons and vampires were all once considered malicious entities however, what is so morally wrong to depict them otherwise? There are so many variations of even one creature in fiction these days but are they presenting the real thing? (That is to say if the real thing even exists.)
IV. Why engage in Fantasy when there are “better” thing to do?
One of the biggest mistakes I’ve seen religious people (of any belief) make with regards to fantasy is that they assume religious material would make a much better substitute. Look we all know that it’s nice to read the Bible, the lives of the saints, papal encyclicals but you forget the actual purpose of these things: spirituality. They are there to teach the faithful just as much as textbooks are there to teach students about science, math, history etc. However, not all students are brainiacs obsessed with such subjects or getting high grades. If I wanted to learn about the Church’s position on homosexuality, I’d read the Catechism. If I wanted to do well in my Biology class, I’d study my notes and books.
If I wanted to have fun and kick back however, I wouldn’t do either of these things! I’d grab the nearest RPG, watch an anime episode, or read a manga. Don’t you see? People engage in fantasy for entertainment. There’s a time for spirituality and a time to have fun. There’s a time for work and a time for play.
Here’s a much simpler analogy. Say your child loves playing with robot action figures like this one. He does all sorts of typical things kids do with such toys like pretend they’re flying, shooting lasers, and makes sounds that go with it like “Whoosh! Whoosh! Blam! Blam!”
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/Space_Man_2006/swatmegazord.jpg
Now in your house, you have a statue of the Blessed Virgin or of a particular saint. Would you want your child to play with those things the same way he would play with his robot? Seriously. I don’t want to imagine it.
How sad.
Your argument on Magic(k) is the lower rung of a similar argument made by professed wiccans and wizards and wicky washys…they claim a difference between black and white magic(k).
You can continue to use this “logic(k)” if you please but, it won’t change the facts that Lucifer is behind the graphic violence, occult terminology, evil imagery and innocent labeling. These are heroic times and you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Somewhere along the line, you’ll have to decide which master to serve.
I pray that on your way to Damascus, the Lord shows you the real light of His Way…even if He has to knock you off your horse.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Wow, you guys just keep coming and coming. Why don’t we apply your flawed analysis to the “magic” of science and the magic of the occult as well eh?
P.S.
The fact that you say logic with quite an air of disdain saddens me. You do know the Church takes pride in using logic and reasoning right? :ehh: You should be ashamed of yourself.
Unless you come up with more sound reasoning, I’ll stick to enjoying my fantasies thank you very much. Nothing like a nice RPG or a decent creative session of fantasy writing after a long day at school/work after all. ;p
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mangy_dog
Guest
See you when you get to Damascus.Wow, you guys just keep coming and coming. Why don’t we apply your flawed analysis to the “magic” of science and the magic of the occult as well eh?
P.S.
The fact that you say logic with quite an air of disdain saddens me. You do know the Church takes pride in using logic and reasoning right? :ehh: You should be ashamed of yourself.
Unless you come up with more sound reasoning, I’ll stick to enjoying my fantasies thank you very much. Nothing like a nice RPG or a decent creative session of fantasy writing after a long day at school/work after all. ;p
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Oh yesh, definitely. What I don’t get is why my guild is sending me, a mage of all people! Sure Damascus steel is one of the finest swordsmithing materials in the world but I practically have no use for that stuff. I’d rather blast orcs with a good lightning storm any day. Can’t that cheeky, pint-sized blacksmith loli see I’m busy? She should be sending my brother. There’s no swordsman better for the job I tell you. He’s been rather lazy lately anyways. Besides, what good does she think sending me will do? I’m not gonna bamboozle any merchants into lowering their prices I tell you. It’s a huge pain. You’re better off sending a smooth-talker (which, loathe I am to admit, is another thing my brother is good at apparently
).
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mangy_dog
Guest
Hi ho silver!!! and it’s off to Damascus he goes!!!Oh yesh, definitely. What I don’t get is why my guild is sending me, a mage of all people! Sure Damascus steel is one of the finest swordsmithing materials in the world but I practically have no use for that stuff. I’d rather blast orcs with a good lightning storm any day. Can’t that cheeky, pint-sized blacksmith loli see I’m busy? She should be sending my brother. There’s no swordsman better for the job I tell you. He’s been rather lazy lately anyways. Besides, what good does she think sending me will do? I’m not gonna bamboozle any merchants into lowering their prices I tell you. It’s a huge pain. You’re better off sending a smooth-talker (which, loathe I am to admit, is another thing my brother is good at apparently
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
What’re you howling about? I don’t even have a horse!Hi ho silver!!! and it’s off to Damascus he goes!!!
My journey is on foot can’t you see? I’d fly but brooms don’t suit me and I’m still too exhausted to summon my dragon from that last siege.
carrier pigeon suddenly lands on his head
Eh? takes message
takes out two stones
Oh for goodness sake, as if our guild budget couldn’t get any tighter…
levitates gem over his palm and lights it up with a blue light
Later then… hurls gem into the ground and conjures mini-portal which he then enters afterwards
(Isn’t Role-Playing fun?
)
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newbetx
Guest
:hypno:
Well at least it’s good to see you back on-line, LW. Hope all is well and looking up!
Well at least it’s good to see you back on-line, LW. Hope all is well and looking up!
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Oh forgive me, maybe I should stop by and say hi there. I’ve been seriously busy lately. >.<;;
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Hater_free
Guest
Don’t let the devil bamboozle you man when God said don’t mess with it that’s what He meant fictional or not it’s not something that can be justified because it ain’t of God it’s of Satan. Recognize the enemy & stay rooted in Christ because the devil never sleeps. God bless you, all on here and everywhere!!!You skipped over my first post now didn’t you?
:tiphat:- Status