Fascinating Womanhood/Surrendered Wife/Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands

[gardenswithkids]

I read the Dr. Laura book, but not the others.

I am an aggressive, assertive, sharp-minded woman. I married a mild, quiet, humble man.

Poor DH, who is rather clumsy and lethargic by temperment, tries to get there and I will climb over him or elbow him aside in my race to get to my son.

Another that might interest you is The Temperament that God Gave You by Art and Lorraine Bennet. They write about the “four temperaments” from a Catholic perspective. From what you wrote in the original post, it sounds like you aren’t just dealing with the differences between men and women, but differences in your “go-getter” temperament and his milder, easy going temperament. (That’s what I see from this side of my computer anyway, but keep in mind I only see what you wrote and don’t know either of you.)

In the chapter on temperament combinations in marriage they write, “The choleric probably enjoyed the feeling of running the show when first dating; but after a while, the phlegmatic’s natural tendency to passivity can begin to annoy the choleric spouse. If the choleric is a woman and the plegmatic a man, the untypical gender roles may later have the choleric pushing and criticizing, (even contemptuously) to get the phlegmatic to ‘step up’ and be more assertive. The phlegmatic should try not to let it annoy him when the choleric argues or controls, but should help the choleric partner learn to relax.”

 

[tnbella7]

Actually, I think it’s a really good book. There are a few minor points I don’t agree with her on, but I do agree with most of it.

I’ve spent years being strong and independent and taking care of myself. I know I can do it. I am just sick of it.

I know how you feel! I got married for the first time at 36, had baby #1 at 38 and baby #2 at 40. Prior to that I was professional woman, took care of myself, traveled, etc. Loved the life - but really was ready for part two of my life.

One thing I have carried over to part two of my life (and I have applied in my marriage and in raising my kids), is to choose your battles. If my daughter wants to wear her pink mary janes with her black dress - okay. If my husband makes the bed and it isn’t military corners - okay. (BTW, our deal is the last one up makes the bed.

I haven’t read the books, but I have read The Seven Languages of Love, and it was really good. Every one has a different way of how they feel appreciated and as a good spouse, I try to tap into my husbands.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I wish my wife was more of a computer and forum geek…

Hey! I hope you aren’t implying that we’re forum geeks?

In spite of the insult, I’ll give montanaman a couple of his and her book suggestions as a belated wedding present: For Women Only: what you need to know about the inner lives of men by Shaunti Feldhahn and the matching For Men Only by the same author. The author is a protestant Christian, and she published the results of surveys and personal interviews she conducted that give some interesting insight. The titles will probably be less offensive to your wife, and it’s more diplomatic if you also read and discuss a similar book to learn about women while you ask her to learn about men. (Since you go around forums implying we’re geeks, I suspect you might need a little help in the diplomacy department. )

 

[kaj3]

Another that might interest you is The Temperament that God Gave You by Art and Lorraine Bennet. They write about the “four temperaments” from a Catholic perspective.

I second this suggestion. Excellent book. One of the better ones on temperament that I have read.

 

[katybird]

Yeah, I remember Catholic Match had the four types profile quiz thingy on their web site. I came out 70/30 choleric/sanguine. My husband was 90/10 melancholic/phlegmatic.

I’m going to look for that book and the one on the love languages, too.

MTA: I couldn’t find the book on temperments over here (UK) but I just ordered the love languages book.

 

[katybird]

It doesn’t sound like you’re reading her love language. She apparently thinks you ‘care’ if you take pride in the house and show interest in making it a home. I would skip the breakfast making and romantic poetry and schedule in some time for doing laundry or shopping blinds.

I do think you have a point, there. But, really, why should he be bending over backwards to keep her from bursting into tears or picking fights whenever he doesn’t do or say what she wants?

My husband frequently does and says things that aren’t what I’d prefer. It would see to me that the answer to the problem would be for me to stop reacting selfishly. Sure, I was annoyed that he was making the bed right then when I needed him to go get groceries out of the car. Luckily, I’m starting to wise up - I realize that he made the bed to be sweet to me. Why throw that away by showing him that I’m (unreasonably) annoyed with him for not reading my mind?

I’m not perfect, though. I kinda chewed him out for doing a bad job of the dishes tonight. He likes to think that the dinner dishes are “his” job - the thing he does regularly to help me out. After standing at the stove, then stuffing my exhausted face with carbs at dinner, I am very, very grateful for his help. But, he often does a very poor job of it - the dishes sometimes need to be rewashed because they’re coated in a film of grease, and the sink is left full of food scum, etc. Some nights, I’m able to surreptitiously re-wash and clean up after him, so that he feels good about having helped me. Some nights, I feel like I need to send him back in there to get it right.

I’m trying…

 

[Island_Oak]

Oooo, that first year of marriage. hated it. trying to block it from my memory.

I have no advice except it is better to (calmly) talk it out than to suck it up.

AMEN!!! Montanaman: Congrats on your nuptials!!Hang in there–you two will find your rhythm–but not without colliding with each others’ agendas a few dozen times. Sense of humour…very important…and about the only reliable way to defuse a type A…trust me–I know what I’m talking about.

 

[melikechicken]

i think that fascinating womanhood is one of the best books I have ever read… if more women were obedient and submissive as outlined in this book there wouldnt be so many broken marriages…

 

[lotusblossom]

I haven’t read any of the above, but I did read Created to Be His Helpmeet by Debi Pearl and it has the same concepts about how to treat your husband and make him happy, which will in turn make you happy.

I was given this book by one married woman for my engagement and then another married woman for my wedding. It changed my perspective almost 180 degrees around! I am a very take-control, independent, on-top-of-things kind of woman, and my husband is a laid back, soft-spoken, go-with-the-flow man. I am very thankful for these women who gave me this book early on in my relationship with him because it’s helped me to strive to be the best wife, instead of being self-centered or controlling. It’s made our relationship so much better as I continue to try and struggle to be this ideal wife .

 

[Em_in_FL]

**Gee and at my house it’s “If momma ain’t happy, ain’t NOBODY happy.”

Inasmuch as I do often say that, I will tell you “momma” is happier when “poppa” is in charge.**

Here’s what I figure…ok, he makes a request…is it illegal immoral or just a really bad move…is it harmful to me or the kiddoes…if not why not do it? The guy loves me. Why wouldn’t I want to do whatever I can to help him be happy? If I’m selfish enough to deny his request…well, it is llikely it will come back and bite me on the …you-know-what.

LOL… sounds a LOT like me too!

I LOVE that first line… and use it all the time…

But truth-be-told, your second statement describes our marriage too…

 

[jules11]

This is an excellent thread.
I have learnt lately, that most of the problems my husband and I have had in our marriage are due to us both wanting to be in control. I had been on my own bringing up 4 children before he came into our lives. I had bought a house, rennovated it, put my chidren through private schools, went back to study to become a graphic designer and got myself a good job… then we got married and all of a sudden someone else had a say in my life! What a shock!
Yes, I’m a control freak, but it’s hard to change that when you’ve had to do everything yourself and make ALL the decisions ALL BY YOURSELF.
I know how I have contributed to where we are separated now…
I just don’t really know how to change it. I have a very independant, strong and assertive personality and it’s hard to let go and do things someone else’s way. Especially when I always think that my way is the right way.I have A LOT of pride too… but that’s another fault of mine that I need to work on.
I may read ALL of the books suggested above, to try and help me in letting go of the control.
He has struggled for 6 years to have a say in what goes on and I’ve usually won out in most things.
Nothing to be proud of…

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

In order not to threadjack - let me say first, I’ve read “Fascinating Womanhood” and consider it good for kindling in the fireplace. There are good books by faithful Catholics out there re: marriage - after you get through those, move to the non-Catholic stuff. You will be better prepared to chew the wheat and spit out the sticks…

I agree, along with anything by Beverly LeHaye and the rest of the protestant women writers. In my youth there was one called Total Woman that was so far off base it wasn’t funny. My suggestion: Start with a couple Christopher West books.

 

[LilyM]

I do think you have a point, there. But, really, why should he be bending over backwards to keep her from bursting into tears or picking fights whenever he doesn’t do or say what she wants?

My husband frequently does and says things that aren’t what I’d prefer. It would see to me that the answer to the problem would be for me to stop reacting selfishly. Sure, I was annoyed that he was making the bed right then when I needed him to go get groceries out of the car. Luckily, I’m starting to wise up - I realize that he made the bed to be sweet to me. Why throw that away by showing him that I’m (unreasonably) annoyed with him for not reading my mind?

I’m not perfect, though. I kinda chewed him out for doing a bad job of the dishes tonight. He likes to think that the dinner dishes are “his” job - the thing he does regularly to help me out. After standing at the stove, then stuffing my exhausted face with carbs at dinner, I am very, very grateful for his help. But, he often does a very poor job of it - the dishes sometimes need to be rewashed because they’re coated in a film of grease, and the sink is left full of food scum, etc. Some nights, I’m able to surreptitiously re-wash and clean up after him, so that he feels good about having helped me. Some nights, I feel like I need to send him back in there to get it right.

I’m trying…

This is a battle worth fighting though - greasy dishes and food-scum filled sinks are a serious health risk!! Start any criticism with a word of appreciation for his help of course, as I’m sure you do

 

[Eileen_T]

I agree, along with anything by Beverly LeHaye and the rest of the protestant women writers. In my youth there was one called Total Woman that was so far off base it wasn’t funny. My suggestion: Start with a couple Christopher West books.

Someone recommended it to me and I got so irae reading it I threw it across the room. Can’t remember where it eventually ended up, in the rubbish I think.

I was less irritated reading The Stepford Wives. I couldn’t believe that this woman recommended women to repress their personality and nature to such an extent. I half suspected it was written by a man under a woman’s name.

A male friend read it before I trashed it and when I asked his opinion of how the women were supposed to act for their husbands, he said it would be great – if the guy wanted an immature little girl for a wife rather than a real woman. And he was a chauvanistic sort, married to a strong woman. I think the word paedophilia was mentioned.

 

[jules11]

Someone recommended it to me and I got so irae reading it I threw it across the room. Can’t remember where it eventually ended up, in the rubbish I think.

I was less irritated reading The Stepford Wives. I couldn’t believe that this woman recommended women to repress their personality and nature to such an extent. I half suspected it was written by a man under a woman’s name.

What was wrong with this book? Is it not catholic? Excuse my ignorance but I don’t know anything about the books mentioned, but I would like some good ones to read to help my situation.
Have you read the other ones mentioned?
Can you recommend any other than the Christopher West books, as I have those… but haven’t read them as yet.

 

[Eileen_T]

It was many years ago now but if memory serves me, women were to be submissive little dolls, suppressing any intelligence they had.

I am not a feminist and put my career on hold to be a SAHM until the children (6 of them) didn’t need me there full-time. During that time I never expected my husband to do household chores, although he sometimes pitched in.

But there have been times over the years when I had to challenge his wrong thinking, especially in matters of Faith and Church Teaching. There have also been times I have gone against his wishes over things I felt strongly about, but I never did it lightly.

“Fascinating Women” should always look bandbox pretty, smile sweetly and, when they wanted something from their husband, should “ask him the way a girl asks her daddy.”

My husband is no more my daddy than I am his mother, thank you very much! I expected him to treat me with respect and value me as his helpmate…and he does.

Aaaaargh! It gets me mad just thinking about it. Stick with Christopher West, at least you will get a Catholic perspective in relationships.

I read somewhere that Catholic men treat their women with respect because they are brought up with Mary as the model for womanhood, while the Protestants, having rejected mary, are left with Eve.

A big difference.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

No, the viewpoint of these books is not Catholic. Helen Andelin is LDS (Mormon). Link.

Dr. Laura has been an Orthodox Jew, but was raised by a non-practicing Catholic mother and a non-practicing Jewish father. Hers is perhaps the least offensive, but she does not take a Catholic perspective: Link.

Laura Doyle keeps to herself and says very little, except that she used to be in marketing. Link.

And heaven forbid you should ever stumble upon it, Marabel Morgan’s Total Woman: Link. Link.

I was honestly surprised that Baker Publishing considered Flannery O’Connor, Mother Theresa, and Madeline L’Engle Christians, BTW, as they are/ were Catholic.

The Stepford Wives is science fiction.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

My bad. L’Engle is Episcopalian.

 

[melikechicken]

No, the viewpoint of these books is not Catholic. Helen Andelin is LDS (Mormon). Link.

Dr. Laura has been an Orthodox Jew, but was raised by a non-practicing Catholic mother and a non-practicing Jewish father. Hers is perhaps the least offensive, but she does not take a Catholic perspective: Link.

Laura Doyle keeps to herself and says very little, except that she used to be in marketing. Link.

And heaven forbid you should ever stumble upon it, Marabel Morgan’s Total Woman: Link. Link.

I was honestly surprised that Baker Publishing considered Flannery O’Connor, Mother Theresa, and Madeline L’Engle Christians, BTW, as they are/ were Catholic.

The Stepford Wives is science fiction.

I personally dont think it matters if book authors arent Catholic in spiritual reading, as long as they are in harmony with Catholic principles and generally I think Fascinating Womanhood is and that is why some Catholic organisations like CAI are recommending the book.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I personally dont think it matters if book authors arent Catholic in spiritual reading, as long as they are in harmony with Catholic principles and generally I think Fascinating Womanhood is and that is why some Catholic organisations like CAI are recommending the book.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, the only CAI I could find was Catholic Apologetics International, and the thing going on there was a debate again Scott Hahn’s view of the Holy Spirit.

And it’s my opinion that Fascinating Womanhood is not of a Catholic viewpoint. The woman is LDS, Mormon. No thank you. There are much better books that offer a Catholic perspective.