Fast Tracking the Canonization of John Paul II

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What are your thoughts on fast tracking the canonization of John Paul II? Even though some miracles have been attributed to him, I am of the opinion that there is no hurry, and much to be gained by following the usual drawn out process. We have become a society of instant gratification, that wants everything now, and I wonder if the push to canonize John Paul II immediately is reflective of that mindset.

Here is an article from Belfast Telegraph about the subject. In part:

Tuesday, April 03, 2007

By Peter Popham in Rome

Two years to the day after his death, the Catholic Church has wrapped up the first stage of Pope John Paul II’s ascent to the company of saints.

The Polish pope is hurrying to sainthood faster than any figure in recent history. His successor Benedict XVI waived the normal five-year waiting period, putting him on the path to sainthood just two months after his death, a full year sooner than the process for the previous record holder, John Paul II’s close friend Mother Teresa.

Robert Mickens, Vatican correspondent for The Tablet, said: "There’s a personal morality that characterises the popes of the last century, they did not father large numbers of children or do other bad things - but were they all saints? The fact is that the Church has not figured out another way to honour people. Some people in the Vatican are nervous about this rush to canonise John Paul II. He was a great pope in the sense that he was huge on the world stage. And in the minds of a lot of people he is still pope. “And that’s one reason why, in my view, they should take longer and let all this fervour die down. If he is really a saint, then in 50 years they will know because there will be a popular cult around his name.”
 
I was thinking about this just yesterday.

Personally, I agree with the comments of the OP, there are good reasons to let things go slowly.

OTOH, it occurred to me that the fast-tracking of JPII and Mother Theresa could be because we are running out of time.
 
Eileen_T said:
I was thinking about this just yesterday.

Personally, I agree with the comments of the OP, there are good reasons to let things go slowly.

OTOH, it occurred to me that the fast-tracking of JPII and Mother Theresa could be because we are running out of time.
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I just found another article by BBC News that states the push for hasty canonization is coming from Poland.

Only allowed to post three paragraphs of an article, so you’ll have to check out the link and read the rest!

“It depends how much pressure people bring to bear. If there’s a great deal of devotion to an individual and there’s enough money around - not that people are being bribed, but it does cost money to go through the whole process - then it can be speeded up.”

Much of the drive to canonise Pope John Paul II quickly is coming from his native Poland. The investigation there was headed by Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz, the Pope’s former secretary and now Archbishop of Krakow.

In a carefully timed interview last week, he told a newspaper in Poland that he believed the beatification process could be bypassed and the canonisation process embarked on quickly.
 
Well, the Holy Father said to pray for PJPII’s canonization. If we ALL do that, it will happen the way GOD wants it to happen (or not at all, if that should be the will of God).

Personally, I hope I live to see it.
 
paramedicgirl said:
What are your thoughts on fast tracking the canonization of John Paul II? Even though some miracles have been attributed to him, I am of the opinion that there is no hurry, and much to be gained by following the usual drawn out process. We have become a society of instant gratification, that wants everything now, and I wonder if the push to canonize John Paul II immediately is reflective of that mindset.
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I do not know what to think. I admire him greatly for helping bring about the fall of communism in the Soviet Union and causing the fall of communism in Poland. Surviving the attempt on his life was clear evidence that God wanted him to stay around awhile longer. I hear people speak very fondly of him, but most of what they speak so fondly about are things I just don’t see. In his life, Pope John Paul II was many things- he was a pastor, an evangelist, a teacher, a priest, and a victim. For the most part, I saw him only as the last. By the time I converted, he could barely speak or even move. He was a good witness of faith through suffering, and a good witness of perseverence to see him carry on, but I couldn’t get into anything he had to say- it took too long to listen to him speak.

Also, but unfortunately through no fault of his own, he represents the 70’s and 80’s to me- when modernists had their way with the Church even worse than they do now. Some say the generation of orthodox priests and religious he inspired are theologically orthodox but can’t get into anything further back than Pope John Paul II or the documents of (or after) Vatican II.

I’m sure he was a holy man, and he’ll probably be canonized someday. Sometimes I think saints should not be canonized until everybody who knew them (and who knew those who knew them as well) has died- because there is no longer personal attachment to interfere with the canonization process.
 
Eileen_T said:
I was thinking about this just yesterday.

Personally, I agree with the comments of the OP, there are good reasons to let things go slowly.

OTOH, it occurred to me that the fast-tracking of JPII and Mother Theresa could be because we are running out of time.
Click to expand...
Why would we be running out of time? I didn’t think there were time limit for canonising Saints.
 
m134e5 said:
I do not know what to think. I admire him greatly for helping bring about the fall of communism in the Soviet Union and causing the fall of communism in Poland. Surviving the attempt on his life was clear evidence that God wanted him to stay around awhile longer. I hear people speak very fondly of him, but most of what they speak so fondly about are things I just don’t see. In his life, Pope John Paul II was many things- he was a pastor, an evangelist, a teacher, a priest, and a victim. For the most part, I saw him only as the last. By the time I converted, he could barely speak or even move. He was a good witness of faith through suffering, and a good witness of perseverence to see him carry on, but I couldn’t get into anything he had to say- it took too long to listen to him speak.

Also, but unfortunately through no fault of his own, he represents the 70’s and 80’s to me- when modernists had their way with the Church even worse than they do now. Some say the generation of orthodox priests and religious he inspired are theologically orthodox but can’t get into anything further back than Pope John Paul II or the documents of (or after) Vatican II.

I’m sure he was a holy man, and he’ll probably be canonized someday. Sometimes I think saints should not be canonized until everybody who knew them (and who knew those who knew them as well) has died- because there is no longer personal attachment to interfere with the canonization process.
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Good post. I agree that it would be better to wait until after his popularity has died off. Meaning that he was a media pope, beloved by many people for his global popularity, and I think that could interfere with the canonization process.
 
It is unseemly to rush a canonization in this manner. It makes the process seem like a popularity contest.

But then again, given the unfortunate number of saints canonized during his pontificate, I suppose it’s fitting.
 
I thought it was pretty common that there can be a push by the people for canonization. Canonization involves pontifical infallibility, and if the Church declares John Paul II a saint, then I will know with confidence that he is indeed a saint in heaven. To be honest, I have been praying to him since the day he died.
 
St Faustina predicted Pope John Paul II’s rise from Poland to become Pope, many years later he canonised her. This isn’t the work of men but God’s work.

Just because some pope’s sinned, which should be no surprise as we are all sinners, does not mean that they did not lead the Church inspired by the Holy Spirit. Afterall the Church still endures down the ages whether pope’s sin or not. Further no man is totally free from sin, even those who are canonised ‘The just man falls seven times a day’. They are sinners and saints at the same time but the Saints are saints because they persevered and became more saint than sinner and practised heroic virtue in their lives.

When a good work is taking place the door opens wide to scoffers and deriders and God allows it to be tried and proven. If it were not tried and prevailed then it would not bear the mark of the Cross and would duly fall to nothing.

Pope John Paul II is a saint and his memory will not fade. His fruits are too many and no-one can bear fruit without discord unless they are united to Jesus. I saw Pope John Paul II when I was 8 years old and he came to visit my country, since that day I have loved him from being a child and I will always love him. I work with young people in a school and also in a drugs and homeless centre and I petition him daily to pray for my work.

There are little saints entering heaven daily that the Church does not canonise, they are hidden in Jesus and will remain so until the end of the world. These little ones are the greatest, especially the little children who die and go straight to heaven and only the mother’s and father’s hearts grieve for them and know the joy they brought to the world. Greater than these are the ones who die in the womb, who are murdered by abortion or those who are miscarried and have fulfilled their life even whilst still in the womb, these little saints are to whom the Kingdom of Heaven belongs.

It is not a matter of rushing canonisation, it is simply that when someone is so greatly close to Jesus it is more or less evident that they truly are a Saint and due procedure must follow, but to delay would not alter the facts.

Wait and leave it in God’s hands, those who love Pope John Paul II will not be disappointed.🙂
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Which ones should he have NOT canonized?
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Given the fact that he canonized more saints than all of his predecessors combined, we may safely assume it was a bit much. Yes, they are all in heaven. And…so? Even a man who lives a sinful life for 80 years and has a deathbed conversion ends up in heaven. Eventually. Doesn’t mean he should be held up as a model of Christian virtue.

John Paul II is an example of cult of personality run wild. What, he should be canonized because he had a kind smile? Because, in far too few instances sadly, he actually exercised the authority of his office and re-affirmed Catholic teachings? Because he knew how to play a crowd?

And what of the state of our Church at the end of his pontificate? Was it a stronger, more faithful Church? One need only check the bankruptcy filings to see that somebody’s been asleep at the switch for a good 25 years at least.

But the post-Conciliar Church may choose to run their canonization process like a new episode of American Idol if they see fit. Knock yourselves out. What those people do is rapidly losing any importance to me as the years roll by.
 
KMXV said:
Given the fact that he canonized more saints than all of his predecessors combined, we may safely assume it was a bit much. Yes, they are all in heaven. And…so? Even a man who lives a sinful life for 80 years and has a deathbed conversion ends up in heaven. Eventually. Doesn’t mean he should be held up as a model of Christian virtue.

John Paul II is an example of cult of personality run wild. What, he should be canonized because he had a kind smile? Because, in far too few instances sadly, he actually exercised the authority of his office and re-affirmed Catholic teachings? Because he knew how to play a crowd?

And what of the state of our Church at the end of his pontificate? Was it a stronger, more faithful Church? One need only check the bankruptcy filings to see that somebody’s been asleep at the switch for a good 25 years at least.

But the post-Conciliar Church may choose to run their canonization process like a new episode of American Idol if they see fit. Knock yourselves out. What those people do is rapidly losing any importance to me as the years roll by.
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A large part of this is due to the fact that he recognised several large groups of martyrs, though. Which is completely fitting if they died defending their Faith. We have a great need of the example of such in our times.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Well, the Holy Father said to pray for PJPII’s canonization. If we ALL do that, it will happen the way GOD wants it to happen (or not at all, if that should be the will of God).

Personally, I hope I live to see it.
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:amen: I have no worries. Pray for it, if God wants it happen, it will happen faster than you could imagine. I have faith in God that we are in great care - the Church.
 
KMXV said:
Given the fact that he canonized more saints than all of his predecessors combined, we may safely assume it was a bit much. Yes, they are all in heaven. And…so? Even a man who lives a sinful life for 80 years and has a deathbed conversion ends up in heaven. Eventually. Doesn’t mean he should be held up as a model of Christian virtue.
Click to expand...
Assumptions, assumptions. Name the 80 year old sinner with a deathbed conversion.
 
KMXV said:
Given the fact that he canonized more saints than all of his predecessors combined, we may safely assume it was a bit much.
Click to expand...
Nothing safe at all about assuming the pope made a mistake in an area covered by infallibility.

I have no problem with the speed of canonization. Historically, saints were named by popular acclaim. The holy spirit also works through the Church as a whole and within each believer. Even on the day of his ordination Pope Benedict called the late pontiff John Paul the Great. If this man did not receive popular acclaim, no one has.
 
Eileen_T said:
I was thinking about this just yesterday.

Personally, I agree with the comments of the OP, there are good reasons to let things go slowly.

OTOH, it occurred to me that the fast-tracking of JPII and Mother Theresa could be because we are running out of time.
Click to expand...
running out of time? clarify please.
 
pnewton said:
Nothing safe at all about assuming the pope made a mistake in an area covered by infallibility.

I have no problem with the speed of canonization. Historically, saints were named by popular acclaim. The holy spirit also works through the Church as a whole and within each believer. Even on the day of his ordination Pope Benedict called the late pontiff John Paul the Great. If this man did not receive popular acclaim, no one has.
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I never said he made a mistake. That is your word, not mine.

And Benedict’s personal opinion of his predecessor carries as much weight as mine. The pope is not God. We do not worship him as if every word that falls from his lips is the voice of the Holy Spirit Himself.
 
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