Fasting - Obligation and guidelines

[ziapueblo]

We’re “the fasting wimps of the Eastern Church”

hawk

 

[XXI_4]

We’re “the fasting wimps of the Eastern Church”

You haven’t seen Maronite “fasting” (in the US) then if you think so

 

[Margaret_Ann]

I’d qualify that with “many”. There are some Ukrainian Greek Catholics who follow the traditional guidelines for fasting. My RO cousins who are in their 60s & 70s still keep the traditional fast too.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Thank you for the link.

 

[dochawk]

You haven’t seen Maronite “fasting” (in the US) then if you think so

There’s not a lot of gap between Pittsburgh Metropolia (Ruthenian) and RCC . . . friday is year round but may be substituted, W & F in Lent, no dairy or fish either on the first Monday fo Great Lent and Good Friday. Uhm, that’s about it.

I’ve assumed US Maronite was about the same.

hawk

 

[XXI_4]

Uhm, that’s about it

US Maronite Bishops mirror the USCCB regulations exactly. Ash Monday & Great Friday are the only days of fast & abstinence (but you can still eat fish, dairy, etc.). Fasting in the Maronite tradition means nothing to eat or drink except water from Midnight-Noon. There is no Wednesday abstinence at all, and Fridays of Lent are just no flesh meat. Fish, dairy, etc. are acceptable.

This is only in the US that I know of. Lebanon and other Eparchies (Australia for example) follow a much stricter fast.

The traditional Maronite fasting regulations are similar to Byzantine traditions.

 

[margaret42]

This might be off-topic, but could someone explain to me what the Catholic church defines as a “full meal”?

 

[Aulef]

Roman Catholic Church.

Check out Code of Canon Law 1249 to 1253 and Catechism of the Catholic Church 2043

Confusion seems to rise because some conference of bishops may allow catholics to change meat abstinence to some other act of penance, charity or piety. Notice this isn’t a simple liberation to eat meat on Fridays. It is a substitution. And people tend to think it is the former instead of the latter.

 

[FrDcnJohn]

Things may vary by jurisdiction but I’ll add my two cents; I’m OCA.

SS Peter and Paul Fast is a more relaxed fast generally in the Orthodox church. Along the same lines as the Nativity fast. What this means is that fish wine and oil are allowed on Saturday’s and Sunday’s. When you ask what kind of fish is allowed on fish days it is any fish. The confusion comes from the differentiation between fish and seafood. Shellfish and other seafood without a backbone is allowed on any fast day. So, I can have shrimp on a Friday and Cod on a Saturday and still comply with the fast.

Any time these questions come up I always suggest you speak directly with your pastor/confessor. The fast is spiritual medicine that allows us to come closer to God. Each individual may have specific needs and requirements. While the church as a whole may have a general rule, each individual may have a different discipline assigned to them depending upon their strength, spirituality, and where they are in life.

I hope this helps.

Fr. Dcn. John

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Who’s got the most rigorous fast in the East?

 

[babochka]

Who’s got the most rigorous fast in the East?

Monks.

Technically, the fast is the same for all the Byzantines, but certain accommodations have been made in different times and places and for individual circumstances. In the US, the Bishops have taken a rather minimalist approach in recent decades. All Byzantines have four penetential periods each year. This is reflected in Ruthenian particular law, but our bishops have designated fasting as “voluntary” for some of these periods. The traditional fast remains the standard. As my pastor once put it: “The fast is voluntary, but then so is our faith.” In spite of the official relaxing of the rules and the very un-Eastern imposition of a minimum, the spirit of the full fast is still alive and well among the faithful. We don’t always follow the traditional fast, but we know we should be. Our counterparts in Europe tend to follow the fasts more strictly. I don’t know if the European Bishops have made official pronouncements mitigating the traditional fast for everyone.

The same goes for Churches of Middle-Eastern origin. I’m not sure of their fasting periods, but I know that they have one that we don’t have - a short, 3-day fast that commemorates the time Jonah spent in the fish. Their traditional guidelines are essentially the same as the Byzantines, though I’m not familiar with the details. I have a friend, a Chaldean Catholic, who moved here from Iraq 10 years ago. She and her family had always followed the traditional fasts and she was very surprised to discover that few American Chaldeans do so.

You might find it interesting to read the articles on fasting from the Eparchy of Phoenix website.

https://www.eparchyofphoenix.org/education_of_the_faithful.html

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Thanks for the link.
Do you all get a calendar or a Missal or something that lists the fasts for each day, or do you just learn that by heart from your catechists?
I would have difficulty remembering which foods are allowed on which day.

 

[babochka]

Thanks for the link.
Do you all get a calendar or a Missal or something that lists the fasts for each day, or do you just learn that by heart from your catechists?
I would have difficulty remembering which foods are allowed on which day.

Well, I don’t drink and I don’t abstain from oil during the fasts, so I don’t really keep up with the details. I fall far short of the full fast, so I have quite a ways to go before I need to worry about whether I have wine or oil on a particular day.

I don’t actually know the answer to your question. For the Ruthenian Church, our official calendar shows only meatless Fridays, for the most part. The Eparchy puts out official rules for the Great Fast and our priest reminds us verbally and in the bulletin for other fasts. There’s usually an insert or something. Over time, you just figure it out, I guess. It is different here in the US. In the traditional homelands, it is part of the culture.

 

[Wife.of.Gabriel]

Shell Fish are allowed because they don’t have a backbone.

Sundown to Sundown seems historically accurate as per how “Days” were calculated back in the day since the Creation Story as recorded in Genesis; however, I think most of us use clocks now.

God isn’t looking for legalism, but for our actions to be motivated by hearts that love Him completely.

 

[eagerbeaver]

I was told that Fish had backbones and faces - shell fish didn’t so they were permissible.

Having said that you do slowly learn what is permitted and on what days.

Friday this week is the Feast of Ss Peter and Paul [ if you are using the New Calendar ] so oil and wine are permitted and as it’s a Friday meat is still off the menu but, since it’s a great Feast, Fish is permitted.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

The Code of Canon of the Eastern Churches (CCEO), not Canon Law (CIC) or the CCC binds Eastern Catholics. The CCC and CIC are supplementary I.e. they only come into play if for example a RC was marrying a Byzantine Catholic.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Great link but there’s nothing on the Apostles’ Fast.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Great question! I’ve wondered about that myself.

 

[dochawk]

Monks.

Technically, the fast is the same for all the Byzantines,

Thiis.

The East normally does’t so much set a minimum (as babushka explained) under penalty of sin, but sets forth a goal to drive towards.

The traditional fast is pretty much the same, with minor variations (e.g., which oils, and does it matter that they weren’t stored in animal skin), but not all will get there–and that’s not a problem.

And then there are the monks . . .

For the Ruthenian Church, our official calendar shows only meatless Fridays, for the most part.

And Wednesdays, too, during lent.

Shell Fish are allowed because they don’t have a backbone.

That distinction, though, was fitting a rule that separated the undesirable food from the pleasant food. It’s not the backbone that itself matters, but that those things without it were penitential by nature, while those with it were more desirable to eat.

God isn’t looking for legalism, but for our actions to be motivated by hearts that love Him completely.

This. The rules are to guide us. The hard and fast, either/or, this or sin, type thinking just doesn’t have a place in Eastern Spirituality.

hawk

 

[babochka]

The East normally does’t so much set a minimum (as babushka explained) under penalty of sin, but sets forth a goal to drive towards.

Just a quick not here: babushka (бабушка) means grandmother. My username is babochka (бабочка), which means butterfly. I shudder to think how many have made that mistake!