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HappyCatholic01
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It is pretty easy actually. I respect him for achieving being a Cardinal, but that doesn’t mean I agree with things he has done that fly in the face of the Vatican.
Should I go down the list of things many of us find “un-Catholic” about this man?
He IS borderline heretical at times. No one said he was going to be perfect just because he was appointed a Cardinal. His heart may be in the right place, who knows, but I disagree with may of his posturings and things he has said.
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wabrams
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.
That doesn’t make him infallible.
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rlg94086
Guest
I don’t think you have to support 100% open borders in order to be right with the Church, so I think the Father is a little extreme in his understanding of the right to migrate.
I may offer up a fast for illegal immigrants as I am pretty much in support of the Senate bill, and I do want the best for all concerned. However, I will not support completely open borders.
GoLatin:
I may offer up a fast for illegal immigrants as I am pretty much in support of the Senate bill, and I do want the best for all concerned. However, I will not support completely open borders.
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Kirane
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But doesn’t an archbishop have the authority to impose fasting rules in his area?
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wabrams
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Beats me.
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snoopy
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Can you say 911? Everyone needs to be documented in this day and age.
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Tantum_ergo
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I do not believe that Cardinal Mahoney can “impose” fasting restrictions on non dogmatic issues. Didn’t you originally say that the Cardinal is “urging” a fast? “Urge” does not equate to “impose” and certainly not to “impose on pain of sin”. Let’s be fair and accurate in conveying what people actually say and do, please.
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Kirane
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Tantum ergo:
Yes. I believe that Cardinal Mahony was urging a fast and not imposing one under pain of sin. But my question was just a more general one as to whether or not an archbishop has the authority to impose a fast in his local area. It did not specifically refer to this case.
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Rob_s_Wife
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First:
The historical references are in error. They paint a rose-tinted picture of people just coming and going as they pleased and this was often NOT the case even way back then. For example in the case of the Holy Family, they weren’t “migrating” for crying out loud. They were literally on the run for their very lives and all the borders were being monitored with orders to kill on sight. It is purely by God’s hand that they escaped. America has a long history of limiting immigrants for all kinds of reasons and so does just about all other countries. This is not new in any sense of the word historicly or otherwise. They limit for economic reason, labor force reasons, security, and so forth.
Second:
I think most americans (and myself) are fine with immigrants coming and going, but not illegals. I’m against this bill for many reasons that can be summed up in one sentence. This bill is not doable or practical on any level. If passed, it would be one huge blooming headache for everyone - especially americans.
The historical references are in error. They paint a rose-tinted picture of people just coming and going as they pleased and this was often NOT the case even way back then. For example in the case of the Holy Family, they weren’t “migrating” for crying out loud. They were literally on the run for their very lives and all the borders were being monitored with orders to kill on sight. It is purely by God’s hand that they escaped. America has a long history of limiting immigrants for all kinds of reasons and so does just about all other countries. This is not new in any sense of the word historicly or otherwise. They limit for economic reason, labor force reasons, security, and so forth.
Second:
I think most americans (and myself) are fine with immigrants coming and going, but not illegals. I’m against this bill for many reasons that can be summed up in one sentence. This bill is not doable or practical on any level. If passed, it would be one huge blooming headache for everyone - especially americans.
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cathgal
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I agree with half of what he said but the other half is questionable. How much is too much for migration to one area. Is there no limit? I’m sure there are many people from other part of the world who’d love to come to the U.S. to have a better life, but they’re not fortunate as the people who live close to the U.S. border who’d have many opportunities to cross over. If we agree a person has the right to migrate, why not open the door to the whole world. Maybe when the land was vacant, it was good for everyone. It is still good… but only if a person is here legally, for the good of the country and all.
The Church has the duty to help the needy and the helpless at all times no matter what, but to hide illegal immigrants…that is questionable. This will encourage more illegal immigrants to cross over and seek help from the Church because they know the Church can’t turn them away. If the Church can help them to obtain a legal status, I can agree with the Church on this. If not, :nope: , the immigrants is putting the Church in a tough position.
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Guar_Fan
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But the article you cite also mentions that Mahony’s call is not being echoed by at least one local bishop
dailybulletin.com/search/ci_3669508
So that makes me think that Mahony’s proposal is open to question.
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Kirane
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Guar Fan:
True. But the question I was looking at was whether or not the directive of Cardinal Mahony was in line with the teachings of the Catholic faith.
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Scott_Waddell
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Has anyone considered contacting the Papal Nuncio about the Cardinal’s promptings and whether they are straight pool?
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JKirkLVNV
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Go Father Mark!!! Go Latin, he’s our former parochial vicar! We loved him. You should see HIM celebrate the Pauline Mass, if every priest did it like him, no one would object to the NO.
I teach in a poor barrio school. The only thing I can say is that if their homes, their jobs, their lives are so bad where they’re from that they prefer THIS (their homes in this barrio, their jobs and lives here), then it must be pretty bad. We need some form of immigration reform, but branding them as felons? No. Punishing those who offer to them “the cup of water” that Christ spoke of? No. Something, yes, that, no.
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JeffGuidry
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Though Father Gantley’s argument from scripture is persuasive, it leaves out a few realities that can’t be ignored. Though life is hard in Mexico, is it impossible to feed and clothe a family there? If it is, fine, I don’t mind people migrating to make a sustainable life that they cannot have in their homeland. But what is the practical economic standard by which this should be judged? Is subsistence enough, or is everyone in the world morally entitled to an American style middle class existence?
Does the Bible condone immigrants taking public services that they did not earn by the sweat of their own brow? As Christians, we certainly have an obligation to help those that need help, including providing all the services that immigrants get from government now. But does the civil government of a land have an obligation to provide services to people who have not earned them through citizenship and payment of taxes? If this level of civic participation is not limited to legal citizens, what then does it mean to be a citizen of a country?
I don’t ask any of these questions in a sarcastic or confrontational manner, to me they seem to be very important distinctions that I have to have resolved before I can definitively judge what the American position towards immigrants ought to be.
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davy39
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As far as I know, Cardinal Mahoney, has no authority here in Ohio. If I fast and pray, I will pray that the Mexican people follow the law, and come to this country legally.
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dhgray
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Unfortuntely, Cardinal Mahony is thumbing his nose at the **CATECHISM **
I believe the Cardinal has overstepped his authority.
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bekalc
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dhgray. Many of the illegal alliens are more than willing to respect the laws of America. The only law they aren’t willing to respect is the law which says they cannot be here.
And yes, in Mexico there is an issue of not having enough jobs and a lot of poverty. I had a friend who went over there as an exchange student. She said that her experience in Mexico completely changed her mind towards illegal alliens. She said the family that housed her, was in many ways supported by family members who were illegal aliens in the United States. In fact it seems like many Mexicans survive on the basis of the money that illegal aliens send home. Which is why the Mexican government isn’t willing to do anything about it (not really)
I think that we can have an open immigration, while only requiring background checks etc.
What most people don’t seem to really understand is that with quotas, it can take a really long time to get into the United States. And when your family and your children are hungry, you don’t necessarily think about paperwork at that point. That does not make you on par with a drug dealer. It makes you more like Jean Vajian who wanted a little piece of bread.
And yes, in Mexico there is an issue of not having enough jobs and a lot of poverty. I had a friend who went over there as an exchange student. She said that her experience in Mexico completely changed her mind towards illegal alliens. She said the family that housed her, was in many ways supported by family members who were illegal aliens in the United States. In fact it seems like many Mexicans survive on the basis of the money that illegal aliens send home. Which is why the Mexican government isn’t willing to do anything about it (not really)
I think that we can have an open immigration, while only requiring background checks etc.
What most people don’t seem to really understand is that with quotas, it can take a really long time to get into the United States. And when your family and your children are hungry, you don’t necessarily think about paperwork at that point. That does not make you on par with a drug dealer. It makes you more like Jean Vajian who wanted a little piece of bread.
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wabrams
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That has got to one of the craziest things I have ever heard.
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