Father Bob forced out by Catholic Church

[Protector]

Father Bob Maguire (parish of South Melbourne) has been told that his tenure at Saint Peter and Paul’s parish will end next year. He is understandably quite upset about this as his (colorful) response to the news shows:-

Father Maguire says the church is being bloody minded by insisting he retire next year, adding that he hopes the public will lobby the church to allow him to keep working.

“We are doing all the right stuff,” he said.

"The church is full. Every time there is a baptism there is 200 people come to join in. I can never work out why, but there they are and people know of us.

“I mean I know South Melbourne is only small bickies to the world, but as far as we are concerned South Melbourne is the world to us.”

       [www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-04/new-document6/3626554](www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-04/new-document6/3626554)

What I don’t understand is, how come the Pope stays in the job until he dies, or becomes mentally incompetent, but Father Bob has to leave his post because he has turned 77yrs?
A couple of Labor Unions have gone on record as being prepared to start a fund to assist Father Bob to carry on doing what he has been doing all these years if the decision is final.
Any chance that the Forum members can use their collective clout to persuade Archbishop Denis Hart to reverse his decision?

Protector.

 

[Thankfulness]

In the Catholic Church,** Pope Paul VI** introduced the mandatory retirement age of 70 for priests and 75 for bishops and archbishops, though there’s no mandatory retirement age for the pope whose position is for life.
So the Archbishop has no choice but to obey the papal mandate.

The priest also must be obedient, though of course it is painful to him and to his parish.

 

[Corki]

From the article, this is what the diocese is saying.

"What we’ll do is we will be able to set him up in a base where he can still continue to do his community work.

"He can relate to the community he loves, he can still say masses in our parishes around Melbourne, so there is lots of flexibility.

He’s not being forced into retirement. He is just not going to be a pastor anymore or have full time responsibilities to a parish.

I don’t know how long he has been at this particular parish. Around here, pastors don’t stay in a single parish more than about 12 years. If they are approaching retirement age when their rotation time comes up, they sometimes will not get another pastoral assignment.

 

[Dale_M]

I do not live in Australia, so my knowledge of events is a bit fuzzy. However, if I remember correctly Fr. Bob fought against mandatory retirement on his 75th birthday, kicking up a small fuss which was covered in the news media. Eventually, he came to agreement with his bishop for a temporary reprieve so he could get affairs in his parish arranged.

Father Maguire is due to step down as parish priest at South Melbourne’s Church of St Peter and St Paul on February 1 next year, as he agreed in a letter to the Archbishop of Melbourne, Denis Hart, in 2009.

But the celebrity Catholic priest said yesterday that he was ‘‘pressured’’ into writing the letter and in fact wants to remain in the job beyond that date, as his position as parish priest is integral to the church’s work in the community.

Father Maguire resisted an attempt by Archbishop Hart two years ago to nudge him into retirement upon his 75th birthday, winning an extension in the role until February 1, 2012.

smh.com.au/victoria/father-bob-pressured-to-quit-post-20110704-1gz4p.html

Now that that agreement is drawing to a close, it seems he wants to renegotiate it.

 

[curlycool89]

But the celebrity Catholic priest said yesterday that he was ‘‘pressured’’ into writing the letter and in fact wants to remain in the job beyond that date, as his position as parish priest is integral to the church’s work in the community.

This is the quote we should really be worried about. No priest, pastor, bishop, or even pope should ever consider that they’re so important that the Church will fall apart without them. That’s not being a leader, that’s developing a cult of personality. It’s developing things around you instead of around the faith. It absolutely smacks of a Protestant mindset where the most important part of a parish becomes the pastor. I believe that’s one of the reasons why priests are moved around occasionally, to give that reminder to both the parishioners and the priests.

 

[Protector]

Quote:
But the celebrity Catholic priest said yesterday that he was ‘‘pressured’’ into writing the letter and in fact wants to remain in the job beyond that date, as his position as parish priest is integral to the church’s work in the community.

curlycool89;8542427]This is the quote we should really be worried about. No priest, pastor, bishop, or even pope should ever consider that they’re so important that the Church will fall apart without them. That’s not being a leader, that’s developing a cult of personality. It’s developing things around you instead of around the faith. It absolutely smacks of a Protestant mindset where the most important part of a parish becomes the pastor. I believe that’s one of the reasons why priests are moved around occasionally, to give that reminder to both the parishioners and the priests.

I’m utterly devastated now. There’s me thinking I was at least going to be made an Honorary Catholic for standing up in defense of a “celebrity Catholic priest”. It’s just a thought, but does the fact that Father Bob has been very out-spoken in the past (and apparently still) have anything to do with the decision? Probably not, so just forget I said it, for as another poster said,

In the Catholic Church, Pope Paul VI introduced the mandatory retirement age of 70 for priests and 75 for bishops and archbishops, though there’s no mandatory retirement age for the pope whose position is for life.
So the Archbishop has no choice but to obey the papal mandate.

So I suppose that Father Bob has had more than his “three score years, and ten” so he has no real grounds for a complaint. Does seem a trifle unfair 'though just the same - I mean he is still apparently in good health and his faithfulness to the CC is beyond reproach. Then there’s the rumour that the Church was not getting enough applicants for the priesthood. Is that still the case? Anyway, thanks to everybody for their posts.

Sorry Father Bob, I tried!

Protector.

 

[Thankfulness]

I’m utterly devastated now. There’s me thinking I was at least going to be made an Honorary Catholic for standing up in defense of a “celebrity Catholic priest”. It’s just a thought, but does the fact that Father Bob has been very out-spoken in the past (and apparently still) have anything to do with the decision? Probably not, so just forget I said it, for as another poster said,

So I suppose that Father Bob has had more than his “three score years, and ten” so he has no real grounds for a complaint. Does seem a trifle unfair 'though just the same - I mean he is still apparently in good health and his faithfulness to the CC is beyond reproach. Then there’s the rumour that the Church was not getting enough applicants for the priesthood. Is that still the case? Anyway, thanks to everybody for their posts.

Sorry Father Bob, I tried!

Protector.

Protector, Father Bob must trust that God has work for him to do in another capacity as priest.
Many older priests still contribute to the life of the Church and the good of souls.
It requires humility and trust and obedience to continue growing as God intends and in the way God intends.
This is God’s will. My signature is a message I chose carefully.

If your priest is struggling with the decision, get him a beautiful card, write in it your thanks and the blessing you pray for him,
and what is written as my signature, because this is the kindest act you can do for him,
…thank him,
…show appreciation,
…remind him in a very gentle kind way of God’s will that is possible with such a Scripture text.

This change in his life, however painful to him and to his people, and the growth in virtue of resignation and acceptance in humility and obedience, and with hope may be part of his preparation for eternity.

 

[curlycool89]

I’m utterly devastated now. There’s me thinking I was at least going to be made an Honorary Catholic for standing up in defense of a “celebrity Catholic priest”. It’s just a thought, but does the fact that Father Bob has been very out-spoken in the past (and apparently still) have anything to do with the decision? Probably not, so just forget I said it, for as another poster said,

I could have probably said that in a more pastoral way, but it’s not affected by who he is or being outspoken or anything.

Then there’s the rumour that the Church was not getting enough applicants for the priesthood. Is that still the case? Anyway, thanks to everybody for their posts.

Be careful with that sort of justification. I’ve seen people try and jump from “there’s not enough vocations to the priesthood” to “we should let women be priests or let priests marry” (which is false as it is given the utter lack of vocations also to those communities that have women “priests” like the Anglicans, but I digress).

Protector, Father Bob must trust that God has work for him to do in another capacity as priest.
Many older priests still contribute to the life of the Church and the good of souls.
It requires humility and trust and obedience to continue growing as God intends and in the way God intends.

That was what I was getting at. You need to trust that the Church will go on without you.

The Church knows who’s in charge: The Holy Spirit. No, we shouldn’t try and sabotage ourselves or anything like that, but we always need to have hope that the Church will go on in the future post-me. Like I said, if you don’t think that a parish will go on post-you, is that a parish that is really oriented towards Jesus and the Church, or is it one that is oriented towards a pastor?

I go to Mass mostly at the Catholic college on campus here, and we have 4 priests from the same order. Each of them have different styles, give different types of homilies, etc. When I see one priest celebrating, I’m not comparing him to another of the priests or wondering “what would Fr. X have said instead?”. We had a 5th priest before who was also transferred this past summer who did a lot of good stuff, but we knew as he did that the college would go on without him. That doesn’t mean that we weren’t sad to see him go, it means that we trust that God will take care of us; it’s going to be different, but we know we aren’t going to be deprived. We trust in God.

 

[Corki]

Not being from Australia, I am not familiar with Father Maguire. The links have referred to him as an “outspoken” priest and a “celebrity” priest. How did he become a celebrity? What is he so outspoken about?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

In the Catholic Church,** Pope Paul VI** introduced the mandatory retirement age of 70 for priests and 75 for bishops and archbishops, though there’s no mandatory retirement age for the pope whose position is for life.
So the Archbishop has no choice but to obey the papal mandate.

Canon Law only states that the priest must submit a resignation at age 75 (not 70). However, the bishop does not have to accept it. Plenty of pastors stay on after 75 when after discussion with the Bishop he “refuses” their letter.
It is a custom that priests are permitted to request retirement at age 70 and most bishops allow it (there are some exceptions).

**Canon 538 §3.

When a pastor has completed seventy-Five years of age, he is requested to submit his resignation from office to the diocesan bishop who is to decide to accept or defer it after he has considered all the circumstances of the person and place.**

 

[Protector]

Corki;8543641] Not being from Australia, I am not familiar with Father Maguire. The links have referred to him as an “outspoken” priest and a “celebrity” priest. How did he become a celebrity? What is he so outspoken about?

The following link will probably answer both of your questions Corki, www.fatherbob.com.au/ but if not this next link will definitely answer the second :-

                 news.ninemsn.com.au/national/.../father-bob

But to save some time, I quote a snippet from the second link :-

Father Maguire, 77, said Cardinal Pell considers his parish a “dog’s breakfast” and described his exit as a “dishonourable discharge”.
“George Pell has declared those of us Vatican II-ists to be Cafeteria Catholics whereas he and his lot are authentic Catholics,” Father Maguire said.
"Well, that’s what we’re being punished for, for being Cafeteria Catholics.
“That means that we’re a bit all over the place like a dog’s breakfast, we live in the real world, we’re open to all, we’re not exclusive, not easily offended, we’re sacrificial, we put ourselves at the service of all kinds of people whether they’re church-going or not.”
Father Maguire, widely known as the co-host of the radio show Sunday Night Safran, will finish at Saints Peter and Paul’s Church in South Melbourne on February 1 next year when the Capuchin Order will take control of the parish.
( news.ninemsn.com.au/national/…/father-bob)

BTW you may have to copy, or type that second link into the search box on Google.

Protector

 

[Corki]

The following link will probably answer both of your questions Corki, www.fatherbob.com.au/ but if not this next link will definitely answer the second :-

                 news.ninemsn.com.au/national/.../father-bob

But to save some time, I quote a snippet from the second link :-

BTW you may have to copy, or type that second link into the search box on Google.

Protector

I saw his blog. If he is publically admitting to being a cafeteria Catholic, how does that match up to your assertion earlier that “his faithfulness to the CC is beyond reproach”?

As a general rule, if you want a special exemption from Church rules, it’s not a good idea to engage in public chastisement of a Prince of the Church. Just saying.

BTW, when I posted the info for the second link into Google, I got the article you quoted as well as one where he says he’d perform same-sex marriages.

 

[Dale_M]

                 news.ninemsn.com.au/national/.../father-bob

But to save some time, I quote a snippet from the second link :-

The link didn’t survive the posting process, so here is a working link to the article you referenced

Father Bob Maguire slams Cardinal Pell
news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8370206

 

[Servus_Rosarium]

This is the quote we should really be worried about.

I disagree. This is what we should be worried about:

A couple of Labor Unions have gone on record as being prepared to start a fund to assist Father Bob to carry on doing what he has been doing all these years if the decision is final.

The sacred priesthood is not a simple employment like a Presbyterian minister of Lutheran pastor. These socialists have no right to be sticking their noses into matters of Holy Orders.

 

[admonsta]

I am mindful of forum rules that we are not to criticise priests, so I am trying not to do so in this. I am happy to withdraw this if it breaches the forum rules.

My brother’s daughter was baptised recently at this parish. There was one mention of God throughout the whole affair, and that was when Fr. Maguire challenged the ‘cradle Catholics’ to put their hand up if they thought there should be some mention of God. He said he was making the baptism more accessible to the modern world.

Not one reading was from the Bible. He did, however, perform a valid baptism.

I fear there has become too much of a focus on community service, and not enough focus on God, and I wonder if this had some bearing on the decision that was made by the diocese.

 

[Hadrianus]

In the Catholic Church,** Pope Paul VI** introduced the mandatory retirement age of 70 for priests and 75 for bishops and archbishops, though there’s no mandatory retirement age for the pope whose position is for life.
So the Archbishop has no choice but to obey the papal mandate.

The priest also must be obedient, though of course it is painful to him and to his parish.

I certainly cannot comment on this personal case. but the “mandatory retirement” means merely that priests and bishops are required to accept retirement at those ages if requested. It is up to their superiors to decide whether or not the retirement will take effect.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

In the Catholic Church,** Pope Paul VI** introduced the mandatory retirement age of 70 for priests and 75 for bishops and archbishops, though there’s no mandatory retirement age for the pope whose position is for life.
So the Archbishop has no choice but to obey the papal mandate.

The priest also must be obedient, though of course it is painful to him and to his parish.

Obedience is of course the crux of the matter here as it often is. 70 and 75 are reasonable ages for retirement from full-time work. Most retired priests I know still work – they say Mass, and continue in some other ministerial work – they just aren’t the full-time person in charge.

This priest does the church no good by arguing that he’s the only person who can run this parish. He should gladly welcome the new pastor and work to ensure that the good he’s put in place gets continued.

Edited to add: I see that the programs he’s put into place are not just community service oriented, but are a bit on the edge with the “being open to everyone”. So I now have a better sense of why his resignation is being enforced.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Obedience is of course the crux of the matter here as it often is. 70 and 75 are reasonable ages for retirement from full-time work. Most retired priests I know still work – they say Mass, and continue in some other ministerial work – they just aren’t the full-time person in charge.

There is no retirement from priesthood, just full time ministry.

This priest does the church no good by arguing that he’s the only person who can run this parish. He should gladly welcome the new pastor and work to ensure that the good he’s put in place gets continued.

Indeed! Cemeteries are filled with “irreplaceable” people…

 

[Protector]

Servus Rosarium;8545673] I disagree. This is what we should be worried about:

Quote:
Protector; A couple of Labor Unions have gone on record as being prepared to start a fund to assist Father Bob to carry on doing what he has been doing all these years if the decision is final.

Servus Rosarium; The sacred priesthood is not a simple employment like a Presbyterian minister of Lutheran pastor. **These socialists **have no right to be sticking their noses into matters of Holy Orders.

Bit of a blanket statement that eh? "These socialists ".. Really! There are many union members that are actually staunch Catholics. And what about Christian leaders that go "sticking their noses into matters of " National politics. I won’t elaborate further as it would make me off-topic in my own thread, plus I’d be liable to get banned.
Besides, I quoted the item to demonstrate the level of public support that Father Bob has generated in his community, and let’s face it the CC needs all the PR that it can get.

I’ll let Fr Bob have the last word on that subject,

“Get in touch with Tim Fischer, the Australian ambassador to the Vatican, and tell him to go knock on the door of the department for the prevention of cruelty to parishes,” he advised supporters.
“Alert them to the fact that in a time when they don’t want any further trouble that they’ve got trouble brewing in the diocese of Melbourne, which is unnecessarily troublesome.”

Fr Bob, Victoria’s most outspoken priest, was named Victorian of the Year in July.
He said the church wanted parishes to operate like identical franchises and didn’t tolerate his hands-on approach.
“The Roman model is a bully. They always stand over people,” he said. (By: Terry Brown From: Herald Sun, November 05, 2011 12:00AM

Protector.

 

[admonsta]

A Catholic Priest is not just a community leader. That is a secondary part of his job. The most important part is the ministry to the people and the conferring of sacraments.

That is, the preaching of the gospel, solid Catholic guidance, Baptism, Confession, Communion, Confirmation, Marriage, and Anointing of the Sick. A person who becomes a priest should do so because God has called him to this role, not because he wants to help the community.

Fr. Maguire seems to have a natural ability in terms of community service. This is a good thing, but not the ultimate in the requirements of a priestly ministry. From the article you originally linked to, I read that the diocese is planning to give him an ongoing role in the community, doing exactly what he is best at. Their focus in installing the Capuchins is probably to look after the spiritual aspects of the South Melbourne community.

I wish Fr. M all the best and hope that he continues doing good work in the community as long as he has strength to do so.