Father Corapi ... on Baptism & Protestants

[ppasa316]

If God required you to be a member of a specific denomination he would have stated the name of the denominatin clearly in scripture. Instead he said this:

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God –
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

So only the grace of God saves by the faith that he gives you by grace. There is not one single work you can do that will effect your salvation at all.

And quoting the bible as your authoritative source of truth is one of the greatest honors you can give it becaue by doing that you are then saying that you do indeed believe that God inspired it and are acknowledging it is indeed authoritative.

To quote scripture is to follow the example of Christ who quoted it often to prove his points.

Amen to that.

 

[tobinatorstark]

If God required you to be a member of a specific denomination he would have stated the name of the denominatin clearly in scripture. Instead he said this:

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God –
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

So only the grace of God saves by the faith that he gives you by grace. There is not one single work you can do that will effect your salvation at all.

And quoting the bible as your authoritative source of truth is one of the greatest honors you can give it becaue by doing that you are then saying that you do indeed believe that God inspired it and are acknowledging it is indeed authoritative.

To quote scripture is to follow the example of Christ who quoted it often to prove his points.

I agree with you to a certain point Catholicism, however isn’t a denomination. It was the church that Christ founded in 33. Anything other than Catholicism is considered a denomination by definition. I do believe in quoting the Bible not “bible”, but I do not believe it that is the sole authorative source. I do however believe that it is an authorative source.

 

[tobinatorstark]

If God required you to be a member of a specific denomination he would have stated the name of the denominatin clearly in scripture. Instead he said this:

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God –
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

So only the grace of God saves by the faith that he gives you by grace. There is not one single work you can do that will effect your salvation at all.

And quoting the bible as your authoritative source of truth is one of the greatest honors you can give it becaue by doing that you are then saying that you do indeed believe that God inspired it and are acknowledging it is indeed authoritative.

To quote scripture is to follow the example of Christ who quoted it often to prove his points.

What about James Chapter 2:20-26?

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.

 

[SteveGC]

If God required you to be a member of a specific denomination he would have stated the name of the denominatin clearly in scripture.

DD, He did state the name…He called it ONE, as He and the Father are ONE. Only the “body of believers” that are part of the Catholic Church (or in full communion with Her) can claim this ONEness. Oneness in teaching consistent, unchanging truths regarding faith and morals to the faithful. Every other “denomination”, in and among themselves, cannot agree on these matters fully, and therefore, are not ONE, and hence, not biblical.

So only the grace of God saves by the faith that he gives you by grace. There is not one single work you can do that will effect your salvation at all.

News-flash…
Faith IS a work. It is indeed a gift of God, first and foremost, but it is also a response to that gift…It is a conscious, active, perpetual ascent of the will, and anyone who claims that faith doesn’t take an act of the will must also claim that a conscientous, life-long atheist will also be saved, because it infers that faith is subjected upon a person without their response, without any work on their part. And that is rubbish.

From the CCC:

*1814 Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us, and that Holy Church proposes for our belief, because he is truth itself. By faith “man freely commits his entire self to God.” For this reason the believer seeks to know and do God’s will. “The righteous shall live by faith.” Living faith “works through charity.”

1815 The gift of faith remains in one who has not sinned against it. But “faith apart from works is dead”: when it is deprived of hope and love, faith does not fully unite the believer to Christ and does not make him a living member of his Body. *

God Bless

 

[Eucharisted]

He was teaching Catechism of Baptism on EWTN.

He went to great lengths to teach Catholics in the class, that devout baptized Protestants will make Purgatory at the minimum.

I want to believe he is right, provided they have no unconfessed mortals.

Um, no. Protestants can go straight to Heaven - just like anyone can go straight to Heaven. No one can miminize God’s Mercy!

Furthermore, saying Protestants can make Purgatory at a mimium is twisting Purgatory: Since God created Purgatory for the purification of souls who are assured of salvation, Purgatory is there for everyone, not just Protestants.

 

[SteveGC]

Um, no. Protestants can go straight to Heaven - just like anyone can go straight to Heaven. No one can miminize God’s Mercy!

If you read closely, I don’t think Fr Corapi was minimizing God’s mercy. He said, purgatory “at a minimum”, which infers that they could also bypass the cleansing state and arrive directly in Heaven.

God Bless

 

[BRB1]

[9] because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
[10] For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved.
[11] The scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”
[12] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him.
[13] For, “every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

John 14:27
[27] Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

John10:27-30
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
[28] and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[30] I and the Father are one."

Salvation Assurance is promised in these scriptures … provided you persevere and remain a disciple for life [as many other scriptures in Peter & Paul’s Epistles & John’s Gospel confirm].

Becoming Catholic gives you the best chance of staying the course. W/O the full sacraments of Church, you will miss out on much spiritual healing in life, and will have a harder time seeing the full truth of scripture & tradition.

 

[sodak]

As opposed to a different gospel of “meritorious works” (grace plus sacrements) in order to gain more grace, which makes grace no longer grace.
…]
Vatican II affirmed the Council of Trent, this is a works salvation, which means grace is no longer grace.
…]
Works are the fruit of salvation by grace; not the means of grace. If you never grasp this, then you will always hold to another gospel.

No. There is only one true gospel, but some have a wrong interpretation of it. Such is evidenced above.

This entire post shows either a complete misunderstanding or a complete disregard of scripture.

For correctly interpreting scripture, you should really check with the editor/author first…

If God required you to be a member of a specific denomination he would have stated the name of the denominatin clearly in scripture.

No, he set up one church, and that one can prove it’s roots via Apostolic succession. That was easy.

 

[sdtouchton]

This article is written by by Katie Stewart.True repentance ALWAYS has a depth of love for the LORD where sins are freely admitted and sorrow has no face-saving limits.

Luke 7:41-48 “There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And He turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for My feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”
The LORD Jesus gives us His authority to forgive sin. His authority, His forgiveness, His rules.

Matthew 18:18 “Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.”
But forgiveness is given only after repentance- not before. His authority, His forgiveness, His rules.

2 Chronicles 7:14 “If My people, which are called by My Name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”

Luke 17:3-4 “Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.”

1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Jeremiah 36:3 “It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.”

2 Chronicles 6:36-39 “If they sin against Thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and Thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near; Yet if they bethink themselves in the land whither they are carried captive, and turn and pray unto Thee in the land of their captivity, saying, We have sinned, we have done amiss, and have dealt wickedly; If they return to Thee with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their captivity, whither they have carried them captives, and pray toward their land, which Thou gavest unto their fathers, and toward the city which Thou hast chosen, and toward the house which I have built for Thy Name: Then hear Thou from the heavens, even from Thy dwelling place, their prayer and their supplications, and maintain their cause, and forgive Thy people which have sinned against Thee.”

Psalm 86:5 “For Thou, LORD, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon Thee.”

Exodus 34:7 “Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty.”

Acts 26:18 “To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”

 

[CentralFLJames]

If God required you to be a member of a specific denomination he would have stated the name of the denominatin clearly in scripture. Instead he said this:

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God –
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

So only the grace of God saves by the faith that he gives you by grace. There is not one single work you can do that will effect your salvation at all.

And quoting the bible as your authoritative source of truth is one of the greatest honors you can give it becaue by doing that you are then saying that you do indeed believe that God inspired it and are acknowledging it is indeed authoritative.

To quote scripture is to follow the example of Christ who quoted it often to prove his points.

And quoting the bible as your authoritative source of truth is one of the greatest honors you can give IT?

Is Bibliolatry a new Protestant tradition where we should be honoring God vicariously by honoring the bible and quoting it out of context?

Now I know from your rather outspoken comments in the recent Hail Holy Queen thread that you would be very angry if Catholics suggested honoring God by Honoring His mother so can you please explain how this is any different and why you are not quoting all those idolatry verses here?

And let me assure you that if you knew your bible according to the true apostolic teaching you would easily see that God did tell us what Church was His.

It is identified by 4 marks or tones (like the harmonious voice of a Shepherd Calling His Sheep): One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

It’s all backed by scripture if you want to take the time to read it.

Now that you know the truth when can we talk to you about formal reception into God’s Church and getting into an RCIA program?

James

 

[garysibio]

I’ve heard him alot on radio. I’m a big fan too … as you.

But, this EWTN program [where he was teaching a class of perhaps 100 in size on Baptism & Confirmation], was a real eyeopener. He didn’t mince words … he came right out an said Protestants were sealed into Christ, and everybit the Children of God as Catholics.

It did appear to be a program from the past. He had a beard, was wearing a gray cape with hood, and looked 10 years younger than a recent photo of him I’ve seen.

We all know devout Protestants who don’t buy into OSAS concept, and put much emphasis on Spiritual Rebirth, living Beatitudes, doing good deeds, and avoiding sin at all cost.

They are more Catholic … than alot of Catholics. Some who later in life convert to the Church, but many more who never seem to discover the Church.

However, Father Corapi didn’t seem to be talking of this Protestant minority … he was speaking of Protestants with a broad brush.

I believe the series on the CCC was done shortly after the CCC came out. It’s rerun a lot.

I didn’t see the particular program being discussed so I’m not really in a position to know what Fr. Corapi said but I do know that the Church teaches that non-Catholics can be saved. Unless I am misunderstanding what some have written, that seems to be an issue with some.

Gary

 

[guanophore]

As opposed to a different gospel of "meritorious works" (grace plus sacrements) in order to gain more grace, which makes grace no longer grace.

No, Seeking, you are wrong. The rewards from doing good works are very much part of the Apostolic gospel.

You are also wrong about sacraments. They are a channel through which grace flows, not separate from grace.

To those who have, more is given. A person who is open to grace will get more grace.

None of these truths detract from grace.

“If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Sixth Session, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 24).

Vatican II affirmed the Council of Trent, this is a works salvation, which means grace is no longer grace.

No, Seeking. You have misunderstood the statement of Trent, and of Vatican II.

Our right relationship with God is indeed preserved when we walk in the works that He has prepared for us before the foundation of the world.

As we walk in these works, we become more and more open to His grace working in and through us. the obedience of faith conforms us daily transforming us into all that He has created us to be. To him who has, more will be given.

Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved,

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through R91 faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Works are the fruit of salvation by grace; not the means of grace. If you never grasp this, then you will always hold to another gospel.

Grace flows through our faith and our actions. Only Jesus is the “means” or provision of the grace that manifests through our faith and deeds.

I agree, however, a person who does not believe this will hold to another gospel.

 

[WMM]

**As opposed to a different gospel of “meritorious works” (grace plus sacrements) in order to gain more grace, which makes grace no longer grace.

“If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works**, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Sixth Session, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 24).

Vatican II affirmed the Council of Trent, this is a works salvation, which means grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved,

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through R91 faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Works are the fruit of salvation by grace; not the means of grace. If you never grasp this, then you will always hold to another gospel.

Another mis-interpretation Seeking12!

Both grace and works are required for salvation.

Go read the seventh chapter of Matthew.

 

[wisdomseeker]

My take of Father C’s teaching of Catechism was that Trinitarian Baptism ‘seals’ one to Christ. That a devout Protestant can actually have Catholic understandings, just not appreciate that the Church is the fullness of the Faith.

It is our duty to show these sincere Protestants that they are missing out on much in Christ’s Church, by being apart from many of the sacraments [mainly thru ignorance, lack of exposure to Catholic teachings].

Corapi mentioned he has many good Protestant friends, who he believes are true children of the father, and heaven bound.

I think he is right … its just that much of Catholic dogma can get in the way and cause us to draw perhaps overly restrictive conclusions from dogma.

Christ did mention to the Jews in sciptures that he has other children, which he will judge by different [more lenient standards].
I’d bet this is where Corapi gets the basis for his understandings.

I always understood this passage as Jesus was talking about the gentiles. since Jesus came to the House of Israel. Jews expect the Messiah to come to them only. which is true, Jesus came to the Jews. in Acts we see Jesus showing St Peter about the gentiles. so i believe that is what this passage means. we gentiles are the other children being brouth in.

 

[Eucharisted]

If you read closely, I don’t think Fr Corapi was minimizing God’s mercy. He said, purgatory “at a minimum”, which infers that they could also bypass the cleansing state and arrive directly in Heaven.

God Bless

Thank you for the correction I was a bit hasty in reading, my apologies

 

[Seeking12]

No. There is only one true gospel, but some have a wrong interpretation of it. Such is evidenced above.

Do you agree you must receive the Sacraments toward salvation and that those sacraments increase grace? Are they not considered meritorious? Do you also agree you can lose your salvation via mortal sin; yet through your action of penance can be restored? If you say yes to any of these, than grace is no longer grace because now it is Jesus plus, which is another gospel.

For correctly interpreting scripture, you should really check with the editor/author first…

No, he set up one church, and that one can prove it’s roots via Apostolic succession. That was easy.

 

[Seeking12]

Another mis-interpretation Seeking12!

**Both grace and works are required for salvation.

Go read the seventh chapter of Matthew.**

Then how is it grace if you need works? Please explain.
Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. "

You boast in your works. Another gospel and not good for the soul.

How do you reconcile what this says compared to what you believe?

 

[Seeking12]

No, Seeking, you are wrong. The rewards from doing good works are very much part of the Apostolic gospel. It is you that are wrong and are teaching others a different gospel than the Lord gave and you are adding wrath upon wrath.

If the Sacraments produce grace and you must do the sacraments in order to receive additional grace, then you are producing your own works in order to gain more grace. Grace is not a partial thing; it is a gift (100%); are you receiving your gift in pieces based on what you perform…come on; anyone can see that is a works salvation; are you so blind that you cannot see?

You are also wrong about sacraments. They are a channel through which grace flows, not separate from grace.

To those who have, more is given. A person who is open to grace will get more grace.

None of these truths detract from grace.

No, Seeking. You have misunderstood the statement of Trent, and of Vatican II. Explain the error. Further more, Catholic teaching has changed saying “separated brethren” as opposed to saying those outside of Catholicism are damned. They are speaking out of both sides of their mouth and you know it; you will admit that among your Catholic buddies, but not before a Protestant. You also speak on both sides. If Vat II verifies the Council of Trent; the only way someone would not be damned outside the Church is if they are ignorant of Catholic teaching and put their faith in Christ.

Our right relationship with God is indeed preserved when we walk in the works that He has prepared for us before the foundation of the world.

Semantics and you know it. “Walk in the works” The Bible teaches that the works are the after flow of the 100% grace that has already been received. Just like water baptism always follows conversion. Tell me about your “right relationship” with God; I and others will be anxiously ready to hear your testimony; please include how you plan to keep that right relationship.
Please; let us all hear your answer in relation to Ephesians 2:8-9.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

As we walk in these works, we become more and more open to His grace working in and through us. the obedience of faith conforms us daily transforming us into all that He has created us to be. To him who has, more will be given. That is a false gospel based on what you do to receive God’s grace; grace is no longer grace with you; this is mocking the cross where it was finished; one sacrifice one for all delivered to the saints; not to false disciples.

Grace flows through our faith and our actions. Only Jesus is the “means” or provision of the grace that manifests through our faith and deeds. Evidence of one’s salvation in manifest through works; the grace was dispensed back at the cross. You got one chance to get it right; if you were to pass on today; based on the gospel you are teaching you will die in your sin and worse; you may influence others to do the same.

I agree, however, a person who does not believe this will hold to another gospel.

 

[MarcoPolo]

That is a false gospel based on what you do to receive God’s grace; … if you were to pass on today; based on the gospel you are teaching you will die in your sin and worse; you may influence others to do the same.

You claim to have the true gospel correct? And you judged guanophore’s soul.

But let me ask you can God not dispense a certain grace to a Christian who prays for it? Can a Christian pray for the grace to stop committing a certain sin, for example?

 

[Scoobyshme]

Then how is it grace if you need works? Please explain.
Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. "

You boast in your works. Another gospel and not good for the soul.

How do you reconcile what this says compared to what you believe?

Seeker, nothing in the Bible, properly interpreted, contradicts anything else.

Read James 2:14-26

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? 17 So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. 19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. 20 Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and** faith was completed by the works**. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.” 24 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? 26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Also, read Jesus’ account of Judgement Day in Matthew 25:31-46. What are the criteria He uses to judge folks with regard to sending them to heaven or hell? **Works! **
37… 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
**38 ****When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? ****39 ****When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ **
Works is a necessary part of true, salvific faith.