Father James Altman: You cannot be Catholic & a Democrat. Period

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I don’t believe I have ever yelled or threatened a supporter of abortion. Do you think that saying nothing about the seriousness of the moral choice has been successful these decades past? Many, if not most Catholics have never heard a priest deliver a homily actually informing them that it is mortally sinful to support killing living children by abortion. And so, if many, many priests (and a few bishops, unfortunately) are derelict in moral teaching, does that mean we laymen must remain mum because those who support abortion get upset when we do point out that it’s butchery of a human being, worse than most of what even the Nazi doctors did?

The abortion supporters complain loudly and long when anybody even says such things and try to ban compulsory ultrasounds. Some even try to force religious organizations like the Little Sisters of the Poor to be complicit in providing abortifacients. Some say we must “change our religion” to accommodate abortion. Many, including here on CAF, defend abortion in a dozen ways.

I think its better to be shocked here on earth by being told how seriously morally wrong supporting abortion politically is, than to be far more shocked shortly after death.
 
I wish I had saved the article, it’s just in the past week but someone in authority was saying we need to persuade the other side.

Also, let’s not fool ourselves, that video “the silent scream”, science is confirming how much these babies suffer in this. Science confirms all more and more.

And to think some politicians, even that Buttigieg fellow have said things that seem to amount to infanticide, post-abortion is beyond the pale.

Even some abortionists apparently, call the fetus a baby.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
I don’t believe I have ever yelled or threatened a supporter of abortion
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I did not mean to say that you personally did those things, and I apologize for the unintended implication. I was speaking in general terms about the strident tone that a large number take when this particular subject comes up, and the complete rejection of anything that looks like dialogue with the “other side” that some express.
Ridgerunner said:
Do you think that saying nothing about the seriousness of the moral choice has been successful these decades past?
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I don’t think that “saying nothing” has been the standard response, either on this forum or in real life. I know that there are people who represent the pro life position at clinics and on marches and many other venues. I also know that there was a clinic providing abortions in the very city that I live in that was convinced (note convinced, not threatened or harangued) to cease operations. The building now houses a free clinic that, among other things, provides pre-natal care to women and is supported in part by the local Knights of Columbus council.
Ridgerunner said:
Many, including here on CAF, defend abortion in a dozen ways.
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I see little actual “defense” of or support for abortion here. Not to say that it doesn’t exist at all, but it is very small. Some will argue for a different method of getting to the goal, but I almost never see anyone (on this forum as opposed to in real life) saying that abortion is just fine and shouldn’t even be an issue.

And on a different note, happy cake day.
 
whatistrue said:
I see little actual “defense” of or support for abortion here. Not to say that it doesn’t exist at all, but it is very small.
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I see almost none. When we do have someone on here defending or supporting abortion, it’s almost always a non-Catholic.

All this just comes down to whether one wants to be a single-issue voter, or choose their candidate in a variety of ways. Many also incorrectly assume that those affiliated with a party always support everthing that party does, and never vote across party lines or vote independent.

For the record: I’ve voted in 9 Presidential elections since I became old enough to vote.
I am registered Dem but I only voted Dem for President 5 times out of 9. (You can have fun guessing which 4 elections I didn’t vote Dem.)
 
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whatistrue said:
And exactly how well has yelling, threatening, and calling them murderers worked so far? If you want them to stop killing babies, you first have to convince them that what they are killing are actually babies, because the narrative they are following is different. Convince and educate, not yell or threaten into submission.
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I would say that many acknowledge it’s a baby, but still insist it’s their right to kill the baby.

If surgical abortion were outlawed today, you’d still have the pills; if surgical abortions and pills were outlawed todayy, you’d still have “therapeutic” D&Cs.

Outlawing abortion will not end abortion. Changing minds is the way to eliminate abortion.
 
Why can’t it be that sincere human people struggling to discern the truth disagree?
 
That’s what you believe. Many posters here, and Bishops cited, don’t agree with you. I believe you’re talking about Biden/Harris.
 
In your opinion.

The faithful could also reasonably conclude that the bishops who disagree with you are the ones actually following Church teaching.
 
That’s incredibly insulting to faithful people here trying to engage in a conversation with you.

Not helping your argument.
 
I watched Fr. Altman’s video. He does generalize in places. This is plain to see. The statement in this thread, “You cannot be Catholic and a Democrat. Period” may be a generalization, but it depends upon how you understand this and what he is getting at. If he literally means that you cannot register as a democrat, while objecting to the evils in the Democratic platform, and be a good Catholic, then, yes, that is not correct. If, however, he means that you cannot be a good Catholic and a Democrat, meaning, a Democrat is someone who supports the platform of that party, then, he is totally correct. There can be no doubt about that.

Can one be a good Catholic and register as a member of the American Communist Party? Perhaps. Can one actually be a member of the American Communist Party (support their platform) and be a good Catholic? That would have to be no. Can one be a Catholic and register in the Nazi party? What about the Free masons? If one is sincerely trying to understand Fr. Altman’s point here, I don’t think it makes sense to reduce what he is saying to what is, essentially, paperwork (i.e. simply registering as a democrat, but being against what is evil in the platform).
 
PaulinVA said:
Hahahaha.

I’m talking about posters here. People post things. They think about others’ posts. Hopefully they learn and, if needed, change or evolve their views.

This is a discussion forum. People discuss.

Edit: We were talking about VOTING! Wow.
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I was also talking about voting - voting into office (and power) a man (Biden) - and a political party (Democrat) - committed to protecting and expanding and financing the “rights” of others to kill babies as they choose. How many of these innocent babies should we sacrifice to the “discernment” process of, in this case, Catholics who aren’t sure who should live and who can be killed?
 
While I see the reasons why Catholics should abstain from voting Democrat.

I do not subscribe or like the: You can not be Catholic and Democrat.

That places politics over the church. It is better said, you can NOT be Catholic and not say that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. But to say that voting Democrat makes you not Catholic is no good.

Yes, Democrats have a lot, and I mean a lot of reasons why Catholics should not vote for them. Republicans also have, but they are less than.
 
Insanely inspiring video. I feel so much better today than I did yesterday before I’d seen it. God bless Fr James Altman.
 
I am going to tread lightly here, but what would you say if the other candidate caused the country to look a lot like Germany in 30s?
 
I understand what you are getting at, but it is important here to qualify what you mean. It is possible to vote for such a politician if that politician, as best you can tell, is the lesser of two evils. Suppose both presidential candidates held the same positions regarding these things except that one was against using American tax dollar to fund abortion. You could, morally, vote for the one who did not want to fund abortions. The vote you are casting is not in support of these evils, but an attempt to lessen them.

Trump supports the homosexual movement, and he stated at the start of his campaign last time that people should be able to use whatever public bathroom they want. This is implicit support of transgenderism. These are both immoral things. If you compare Trump and Biden regarding moral evils, Trump seems clearly to be the lesser of two evils.
 
StephenW said:
These are both immoral things. If you compare Trump and Biden regarding moral evils, Trump seems clearly to be the lesser of two evils.
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And that is my point. How much actual control does the President have on abortion, versus what control he/she has on other issues, such as setting the tone of the country, following laws, working within the confines of checks and balances. How much does personal character weigh in this?
 
Killing children, or supporting a platform that is going to ask you to fund killing children via taxation, is about as immoral as it gets. Full stop. Nitpicking character, the efficacy of any particular position in regard to it, etc is completely irrelevant when it comes to determining what your final stance should be.

Do they support killing children?

If the answer is yes, that’s it. You’re done. Anything else is desperate ploy to justify a purely anti-Catholic position. Folks love to say Republicans are only pro-birth yet the vast majority of those who adopt are religious conservatives. Furthermore just because we disagree on which economic models result in the greatest amount of prosperity and the greatest degree of individual free choice, does not mean that we do not love or care about the well-being of children. It’s an offensive slight to suggest otherwise.

I’m quite tired of people acting like affirming classical reasoning, traditional values and purely Catholic stances is selfish when supporting killing the unborn is somehow charitable. Meanwhile cities burn as men and women who vehemently reject God, American values, and their very own biological gender riot and loot. I’ll take a poorly spoken redneck over an articulate woke Marxist any day.

“If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of.” - JBP

If you want a Church filled with relativism, transexuals and socialists then the Episcopal Church is already a thing.
 
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