Father letting me suffer; the Church seems to be wrong

  • Thread starter Thread starter ethereality
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

ethereality

Guest
Since today was a particularly special Sunday, the Commemoration of All the Faithful Departed (All Souls), I thought God might finally heal me, as I’ve been praying since around February (a miracle of St. Thomas Aquinas’ third category, a natural phenomena occurring out of its usual time or order of occurrence). I thought perhaps God would find it a fitting occasion for the Venerable person whose intercession I’m requesting to “come out of purgatory” (enter heaven properly), if that person is still being purified, and grant this healing as a sign.

Instead, I got a headache during Mass, which lasted most of the day.

I don’t understand why God has refused to heal me, or why God makes me suffer even more, as if to spite my faith. (Yes, God is responsible for my headache, because God is the one holding all things in existence at every moment. If God did not continue to cause my headache for its duration, my headache would have ceased to exist, according to Frank Sheed.) My only explanation is that it hasn’t been a full year yet, that there may be some other day more significant for my intercessor. Nonetheless, my suffering and the absolute silence of God tempts me very strongly to think the Church is wrong about God being my Heavenly Father, about God existing at all. Some time ago I sat down and wrote an exhaustive essay on why I was a Christian, building the strongest case I could, and discovered that all of my arguments rest on uncertain premises, e.g. the Resurrection, or the recent miracles affirming the Church’s message like the Miracle of the Sun of Our Lady of Fatima, or those for which Pope John Paul II was canonized. I would find the case for atheism to be equally strong, except that, in light of this suffering, the case for atheism comes out stronger.

The more I seek God, the more I notice His absence; the more I “believe I will be healed”, as Jesus commands us as a prerequisite condition, the more I am let-down and disillusioned. For this reason I have stopped attending Daily Mass: It is too painful, and I can no longer bear to be disappointed by God. I think I could bear it if God would explain to me why (as people are quick to point out He did for St. Paul), but the only things God has said to me are those writings the Church says He’s responsible for, writings which led me to think God would heal me in the first place, because Jesus quite literally says that He will.

What should I do? I’m rather heart-broken. I’ve tried praying, sitting quietly before His Presence in the Tabernacle, and only one of two things happens: Nothing, or I become drowsy (because I have trouble sleeping at night). At this point, I am like Peter walking on the water – all evidence suggests the contrary is true – except I can’t see Jesus, have started my trek at the bidding of others, and I am suffering.
 
I can only offer this…Ask God to enlighten you as to why he has not granted the healing you seek. There can be many reasons. Sometimes we can be too fixated on a single path or goal. Sometimes God understands better than we do what it is that we are truly asking for, or truly need, but cannot act because our own “self” gets in the way.

When I discern this in myself (all too often I’m afraid :rolleyes:😊) I find it best to back away from the thing. To relax and try to let go of it as much as possible.
In other words, to simply accept God’s will in the matter.
Many times, when I am able to do this, God reveals some rather interesting ways that he HAS been at work in my life, or how he actually has granted me what I had asked…but I was just unable to recognize it.

So this would be my advice to you as well…the headache you experienced may well have been brought on by you clinging too tightly to your own idea of what God should be doing instead of simply being open, listening and being receptive - and then letting God be God and do things in His own time and His own way.

May God give you solace today and always.

Peace
James
 
Instead of praying for healing ask our Lord to become closer to him, now seeing your post this will be hard as I see you want to be healed. But I feel if you learn to love the Lord more the pain youre experiencing will be not as bad. Ask yourself are you going to mass to be healed or are you going to spend time with the most High Jesus Christ and receiving him in the most blessed sacrament
Hope this helps
God bless
 
While you may have understood the “category” of the miracle from Aquinas, you have not taken him seriously that God performs healings for a purpose of necessity in saving a soul or souls, where it would be a cause of proclaiming his being or salvation, making his Name known. But if it will simply be for personal ease in this life, as if this life were our goal of all life, no. And if it were to give us a sight of his reality as if to prove something to us, no.

You will not see anything in adoration of the sacramental body of Christ other than the wafer of the Host. You are seeing what you must see there, a body without blood. That is for your physical eyes to see - the death of Christ, that he really died. Remember the words you say at Mass, “When we eat this bread… we proclaim you death, O Lord…” You are seeing the body that was given with your eyes and that is all you are seeing and what you must see, his death. It is your soul that “knows” he is living, it is your soul that understands that you really have with his body also his blood, soul, divinity, alive. Remember the rest of the words you say, “… and profess (from our souls, not from what we see) your resurrection, until you come again”

What you see at Mass or at Adoration (body, blood, sacrifice, the death of Jesus) is also what you see in your life here - suffering, pain, death. But it is your soul, Faith, that knows there is life where your eyes see death. In the morning, at the Morning Offering, where you talk to the Lord and offer yourself to him today, listen to the words, “O Jesus, through the Immaculate heart of Mary, I offer (like you offered) my prayers, works, joys, and **sufferings **of this day, … in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…” Take what you see in yourself (your suffering) and what you see on the altar (the body that does not say anything to you because it was given in death) and recognize them as one offering to God.

Satan tells us we must see a miracle to prove God is real, and to Jesus that he must have stones changed to bread if he is the Son of God. Jesus did not need that to be the Son of God, and we do not need miracles. We live even if we suffer and die like him, because we are united to him. Look on the altar, a body without blood - a sacrifice. Look at yourself, in pain, a sacrifice offered to Jesus to join to his sacrifice. Eat what your eyes see at Mass and let Jesus have your offering. Then know what he knows in your soul, that he lives, this body given is risen, and you shall live.
 
We cannot make bargains with God. We ask for what we want, but God gives us what we need. Unite your sufferings with those of Jesus Christ. We walk by faith and not by sight. Everyone of us will suffer and die in our bodies but our souls live forever. The devil is tempting you. Increase your prayers and reception of the sacraments especially at this time. I will pray for you, too.
 
Dear Ethereality,

I am sorry for your continued physical and spiritual struggles.

I think that I mentioned in one of my past posts to you that I felt that you should talk to your parish priest or pastor about your struggles, since you felt that they might possibly keep you from going to Mass. I see that you stopped going to daily Mass now.

Sometimes when we have our minds so heavily set on one thing, we start to miss other things that are going on around us, that could be to our benefit.

I personally do not think that God would give you a headache. I believe that headaches come from physical sources.

As I mentioned in my past posts to you, it has been my experience that God tends to work through other people, when it has come to helping me with my health issues. He has answered my prayers in terms of guiding me to the right kind of care that I needed, etc.

I agree with those who say that we have to pray with God’s Will in mind. I suffer with many chronic health issues. I “offer them up” all of the time. When I pray, I pray with love to the Lord.

Since you are asking what to do, if I were you, I would focus more on praying for God’s Will in your life when you pray, and I would then be more open to seeing what might happen around you then.

May God bless you in your difficulties and struggles.
 
Used2beSherryG said:
We cannot make bargains with God. We ask for what we want, but God gives us what we need. Unite your sufferings with those of Jesus Christ. We walk by faith and not by sight. Everyone of us will suffer and die in our bodies but our souls live forever. The devil is tempting you. Increase your prayers and reception of the sacraments especially at this time. I will pray for you, too.
Click to expand...
Code: 
 You have written all the things I would have written.  Jesus does not GIVE us pain on purpose.  As I have been taught and am reminded of daily, we are like a diamond in the rough
and Jesus takes that diamond and slowly polishes it to shine with HIS love. We are all a
diamond in the rough. I have been polished, but I am still IN THE ROUGH. WE may KNOW
what we WANT, but the LORD KNOWS WHAT WE NEED and sometimes it is NOT what we
ask for. Jesus does not MAKE you suffer. HE wants you happy. Don’t try so hard to look for
the answers. Sometimes the answers are found in places you least expect. They will come
and when they do, it may be at a time you do not expect. Read SherryG’s post again… She
is right. You are being tempted. Ask Jesus to remove Satan from your life. Just repeat as I
often do, “Jesus, let the devil be gone from my life.” Peace and love, Alex
 
I am sorry to read of your suffering and your loss of faith, I pray that you receive the strength of the Holy Spirit to endure and continue.
(St. Micheal, the archangel - please come to the aid of Ethereality thru Christ our Lord)

Ethereality, please go talk with a priest, have him suggest a spiritual adviser. You’ve made a brave attempt to justify your faith with reason. Now take that work with you and let your spiritual adviser help you to read between the lines.

We who follow Christ are often called to carry a cross, for some it appears to others that they carry only a little burden, but to all their personal cross seems at times to be too heavy. Our Lord did not carry a light burden, he carried the cross by himself -for us, and yet he helps us to carry our cross - if only we take the burden, and allow his help. The poem, Foot Prints in the Sand comes to mind

What I read in your post is a lot of me, I, my-will be done, and very little of letting God work thru you. You say you were drowsy at adoration, maybe God was letting you catch some much needed rest in a power nap (webmd). Have you been to confession, and during adoration, did you pray a Rosary or the LOTH, there are indulgences attached to these acts during adoration… you may have done more good for yourself and for those souls in purgatory than you are aware of.

You talk about a year of suffering and that is is supposed to be some magical event?! There is nothing magical about a week, a novena, a year. These are all God’s gifts to us and as such, are special in their own right, but not magical.

You expect a God to work on your time table? As you have looked to the saints for help, perhaps, you should look to another:
Saint Thérèse of Lisieux (EWTN - Click Thru -short read)

St. Therese of Lisieux (CatholicOnline.com - Click Thru - very long read)

Society of the Little Flower (Click Thru) - indepth

Perhaps a person of great faith that suffered at the hands of adversity:
The Book of Job (UCCB - click thru)

These acts of faith didn’t take a year. No, these acts took place over a long time. A year is nothing to our Lord. It is our love and our faith that is important.

Speaking of that love and faith, you should trust in the Lord not test him… this is a commandment of old and repeated by our Lord during the temptation, so important, that two of the gospels explicitly bring this to light!
Luke 4:11-13
The Temptation of Jesus
…11and, ‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’" 12And Jesus answered and said to him, "It is said, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’" 13When the devil had finished every temptation, he left Him until an opportune time.

Mtt4:6-7
The Temptation of Jesus
…6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, ‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU’; and ‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’” 7Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’"

Deut6:15-17
The Greatest Commandment
…15for the LORD your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the LORD your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth. 16**"You shall not put the LORD your God to the test, as you tested Him at Massah. **17"You should diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and His testimonies and His statutes which He has commanded you.…

Then there’s the testing of the faith during the establishment of the Church:
The Acts of the Apostles (USCCB - Click thru)

Never fear, though you may have given up on the Lord and his Church, neither have given up on you.

You expect a storm when God approaches you?
Perhaps you should instead be listening for the stillness?
1Kings19:12-…
The Lord Speaks to Elijah at Horeb
…11So He said, “Go forth and stand on the mountain before the LORD.” And behold, the LORD was passing by! And a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12After the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a*** sound of a gentle blowing.*** 13When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. And behold, a voice came to him and said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”…
 
Hello EtherReality,

I’m truly sorry to read about your distress. Please do not give up on God.

That’s what I did and it was the wrong direction. I was angry, frustrated,
gave up hope, and turned my back on God for a long time.

Today I accept whatever heartaches, pains, or trials come my way because
in doing so I am placing my trust in God (something I should have done a
long time ago). This does not mean I’m happy about what is occurring.
It does not remove loneliness. Simply, I have learned it’s easier accepting
than fighting/questioning. It has brought me closer to God in a real way.

It’s not easy (and I’m certainly no saint) but provides a peace of mind
for me that has not occurred before. Yes, I will at times complain to God
in prayer, and then I’m reminded of others, like yourself, or at Mass
today all those in purgatory, who need prayers, and my complaining subsides.
I try to replace my grumbling with prayers of Praise and Thanks and this
lifts me up again.

I hope some of what I have experienced will help you
somehow…that’s the only reason why I mentioned this stuff.

take care and may God bless you
 
Used2beSherryG said:
We cannot make bargains with God. We ask for what we want, but God gives us what we need. Unite your sufferings with those of Jesus Christ. We walk by faith and not by sight. Everyone of us will suffer and die in our bodies but our souls live forever. The devil is tempting you. Increase your prayers and reception of the sacraments especially at this time. I will pray for you, too.
Click to expand...
This. Read it over & over until you get it. I’m 61. In my life I have suffered from major pain and illness; I still suffer. But I don’t ask God to heal me. I ask that he teach me. It’s the only way to stay Christian while suffering.
 
So you’ve been praying to be healed for eight months, and when it didn’t happen magically at mass as you were demanding, you feel you are being punished? Really? Previous posters are being very kind to you. Prayers aren’t a do it now Lord thing. They are a have mercy on me Lord, be with me in my suffering, offer it up kind of thing. There is virtue in suffering. I’ve suffered from chronic migraines nearly every week for about twenty five years. I have friends with cancer, friends who have lost children to cancer and accidents. People around the world are starving and sick…Praying for eight months and being annoyed you got a headache in mass in return for your efforts is rather presumptuous. Forgive me for my harsh response. Praying for you and your needs.
 
ethereality said:
Since today was a particularly special Sunday, the Commemoration of All the Faithful Departed (All Souls), I thought God might finally heal me, as I’ve been praying since around February (a miracle of St. Thomas Aquinas’ third category, a natural phenomena occurring out of its usual time or order of occurrence). I thought perhaps God would find it a fitting occasion for the Venerable person whose intercession I’m requesting to “come out of purgatory” (enter heaven properly), if that person is still being purified, and grant this healing as a sign.

Instead, I got a headache during Mass, which lasted most of the day.

I don’t understand why God has refused to heal me, or why God makes me suffer even more, as if to spite my faith. (Yes, God is responsible for my headache, because God is the one holding all things in existence at every moment. If God did not continue to cause my headache for its duration, my headache would have ceased to exist, according to Frank Sheed.) My only explanation is that it hasn’t been a full year yet, that there may be some other day more significant for my intercessor. Nonetheless, my suffering and the absolute silence of God tempts me very strongly to think the Church is wrong about God being my Heavenly Father, about God existing at all. Some time ago I sat down and wrote an exhaustive essay on why I was a Christian, building the strongest case I could, and discovered that all of my arguments rest on uncertain premises, e.g. the Resurrection, or the recent miracles affirming the Church’s message like the Miracle of the Sun of Our Lady of Fatima, or those for which Pope John Paul II was canonized. I would find the case for atheism to be equally strong, except that, in light of this suffering, the case for atheism comes out stronger.

The more I seek God, the more I notice His absence; the more I “believe I will be healed”, as Jesus commands us as a prerequisite condition, the more I am let-down and disillusioned. For this reason I have stopped attending Daily Mass: It is too painful, and I can no longer bear to be disappointed by God. I think I could bear it if God would explain to me why (as people are quick to point out He did for St. Paul), but the only things God has said to me are those writings the Church says He’s responsible for, writings which led me to think God would heal me in the first place, because Jesus quite literally says that He will.

What should I do? I’m rather heart-broken. I’ve tried praying, sitting quietly before His Presence in the Tabernacle, and only one of two things happens: Nothing, or I become drowsy (because I have trouble sleeping at night). At this point, I am like Peter walking on the water – all evidence suggests the contrary is true – except I can’t see Jesus, have started my trek at the bidding of others, and I am suffering.
Click to expand...
Don’t get so caught up in your own expectations. God is a God of surprises.

And I second the motion of looking into St. Therese of Lisieux. Her Story of a Soul is a great read. I highly recommend it.🙂
 
Humility could be the toughest lesson to pass for all of us. Not to discourage or put the blame on you but, have you asked yourself, am I asking or telling God to heal me?
 
Einstein once said that a person who does the same thing the same way over and over and expects different results is the definition of stupid, or something like that.

Obviously going around and around the same way is shouting to stop and do something different.

I believe scripture says something like God answers the prayers of a holy man. There was Father Solanus who was a Franciscan. He had the power to work miracles, to get healings for people, and thru his prayers. Maybe you would like to know what it is he did. It is the book “Father Solanus” by Catherine M Odell. A simple man with simple prayers. It is an interesting read besides being loaded with ideas on the spiritual life. Can’t hurt to read it, and it may help a lot.

amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_adv_b/?search-alias=stripbooks&unfiltered=1&field-keywords=Father+Solanus&field-author=Catherine+Odell&field-title=&field-isbn=&field-publisher=&node=&field-p_n_condition-type=&field-feature_browse-bin=&field-subject=&field-language=&field-dateop=During&field-datemod=&field-dateyear=&sort=relevanceexprank&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=29&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=17

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
Heidi / spiritualunity was a CAF member whom I was proud to know, who died in January 2012. She would visit the forums both to ask for the help of prayers and to witness about her conversion / reversion. She also told me that as her best friend, I was allowed to tell her story if it seemed like the Holy Spirit would use that to help someone else.

When Heidi was 37, she was just about to graduate college and was looking forward to starting a dream job in the art world in Germany … she was talented and gifted and everyone knew it. She had also fallen quite far from God. And that’s when she had what she described as a “St. Paul conversion experience.”

While driving her car one day with her daughters, she was suddenly struck with a severely disabling heart disease. Her first words when it happened were, "I believe in God. Get me to a hospital … "

Instead of flying off to Germany for her dream job, fortune, and fame … she ended up bedbound, on the verge of homelessness, unable to afford food, having her belongings stolen, in pain (and I do mean pain), abandoned by people close to her, having trouble as a shut-in getting a priest or Eucharistic minister to visit her to administer the Sacraments, and at the end of her life bouncing between hospitals, nursing homes (one in which she suffered abuse), and her apartment. Her suffering lasted for about 18 years. The way she handled this, she became a hero to me and I feel blessed to know her as a best friend.

And how did this hero feel about herself? She asked for prayers, most definitely … and her most important prayer request was this:

“Pray for my salvation.”

Healing comes in many forms. I will pray for yours. On this Feast of All Souls Day, will you in turn please pray for Heidi’s salvation? She will be grateful to you.

From today’s Liturgy of the Hours:

Let us pray to the all-powerful Father who raised Jesus from the dead and gives new life to our mortal bodies, and say to him:
Lord, give us new life in Christ.
Amen.
 
Thank you, Phoenix, for sharing that inspiring example. Probably safe to bet on Heidi being in heaven right now.
 
Wow, thanks Phoenix. Sometimes the best way to pick up our cross and keep going is to look ahead at someone we love who is shouldering theirs already.
 
John_Martin said:
You will not see anything in adoration of the sacramental body of Christ other than the wafer of the Host. …] In the morning, at the Morning Offering, where you talk to the Lord and offer yourself to him today, listen to the words, “O Jesus, through the Immaculate heart of Mary, I offer (like you offered) my prayers, works, joys, and **sufferings **of this day, … in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…” Take what you see in yourself (your suffering) and what you see on the altar (the body that does not say anything to you because it was given in death) and recognize them as one offering to God. …] Then know what he knows in your soul, that he lives, this body given is risen, and you shall live.
Click to expand...
How do we reconcile what you say to Jesus teaching that God is our “Father”? Calling God “Father” meaningless if He is a being that we must appease by suffering. That being is a sadistic slave-owner, not a father. (Sadism, literally, one who takes satisfaction from seeing another suffer.) Yet NABRE Lamentations 3:33 says, “He does not willingly afflict or bring grief to human beings.” So why, then, would God require me to suffer and refuse to heal me?
 
ethereality said:
How do we reconcile what you say to Jesus teaching that God is our “Father”? Calling God “Father” meaningless if He is a being that we must appease by suffering. That being is a sadistic slave-owner, not a father. (Sadism, literally, one who takes satisfaction from seeing another suffer.) Yet NABRE Lamentations 3:33 says, “He does not willingly afflict or bring grief to human beings.” So why, then, would God require me to suffer and refuse to heal me?
Click to expand...
You still don’t get it. EVERYONE suffers in some way or another, some more than others. Sometimes suffering is brought on by our own actions. Jail time for a criminal offense for example; an auto accident caused by texting and driving for another. Or you may get sick, catch a “bug” touching a railing in the subway then wiping your eye. God did not do that to you.

You need to understand Jesus suffered FOR US. How cool is that! What is a little suffering by us in return for His love. Maybe God doesn’t want to heal you. Have you considered that? It appears as if you are praying/expecting healing alone so are not aware or looking for any other blessings you may have received and possibly rejected. I have quoted something by St. Paul regarding suffering. Read it, contemplate it, and pray about it:

"St. Paul explains the meaning of suffering

Suffering is a participation in the mystery of Christ and is the way Paul can become like Christ. Suffering is his way of “becoming like him (Christ) in his death” so that he “may attain the resurrection from the dead” (Philippians 3:10-11). Through his suffering, Paul sees himself as participating in the Passion of Christ. Because we are being saved through the death and resurrection of Christ we must participate in his Passion to obtain salvation.

Another dimension of Paul’s thought on the meaning of suffering is his conception of suffering as a means for sanctification, keeping pride at a minimum and trust in God at a maximum." (www.catholicnewsagency.com; retrieved 2 November 2014)

[edit==wrong saint…had St. Peter, not St Paul]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top